Does God Exist?

" Since it is that we, as physical organisms, have limited sense organs, we therefore have limited perceptions of reality as well, making the ultimate, sub-atomic reality forever obscured to our eyes... "

Another misconception. If humans are so limited then how can the person who made this statement claim to know what reality is?

Without humans living in and perceiving the Universe, there is no reality.

Lightkeeper said:

" Since it is that we, as physical organisms, have limited sense organs, we therefore have limited perceptions of reality as well, making the ultimate, sub-atomic reality forever obscured to our eyes... "

Another misconception. If humans are so limited then how can the person who made this statement claim to know what reality is?

Without humans living in and perceiving the Universe, there is no reality.

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Actually, I'm right and you are incorrect, and this is why:

If you take away perception and cognition, there would still be reality, however there would be no one to know about it.

Our perceptions of reality are limited, yes, however not to the degree that we cannot sense, and correspondingly know, reality.

Incorrect speculation on your part, once again. . . .

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Maize said:

Thrasymachus said:

I disagree. This forum has personal written all over it, especially considering the circumstances. If by now he has not realized his absudity, it should be elucidated to him directly. I'm quick to tell anyone if he or she is being ridiculous. How long must one continue to destroy the same fallacious assertions without becomming bored? Someone has to end the circus eventually. Too much patience is a horrid thing. . . .

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You disagree with my moderation? Fine. Take it up with the Admin. But until you speak with him, I suggest you read and follow the first rule of this forum, which states:

"While debating and discussion is fine, we will not tolerate rudeness, insulting posts, personal attacks or purposeless inflammatory posts. Our decision is final in these matters. "

The discusion in this thread is boring you? Then move on.

Thank you.

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You actually have the audacity to defend such insipid policies? Well then, do not fret, my moderate moderator. I shall move one, as you insist, for I've had enough of you clowns, and your childish, unrealistic philosophies.

Do yourselves a favor and 'Get Real'! I mean that both figuratively and literally. . . .

Master Vigil said:

Alaric, I understand what you are trying to say, but lets look at it this way. An animal sees and smells and hears the car. Whether or not it knows its a car, or how it works, it is still a car yes? They may not associate with the same idea that we have, yet it still is a car. We know it to be so. Therefore, when we sense what we associate as infinity, or eternity, or perfection, or tao... we may not be associating it with the right things, yet there is something that creates those ideas. Humans are able to (I suspect) better undderstand our associations than an animal. Therefore when we associate the idea of infinity with something, we understand that we are associating with something that has no end. Or something perfect with something that has no flaws. Even though we can not fully understand them, we are still able to conceive of the idea.

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But how do you come to the conclusion that what you sense really is what you associate with it? If it were Tarzan on the roof watching the same scene, he might make a list of the sense impressions he receives in different situations and eventually learn to associate the smell of an engine with the sound and sight of an engine, by noticing that they all have something to do with the black thing under the bonnet. By watching closely enough he would eventually be able to learn when to expect to see an engine, and even what it does. What do you do to test what you feel? Feeling the infinite is a very bold claim - how do you justify it? You need to justify that it couldn't be something else, and that's difficult when you can't describe what you feel. Furthermore, I can't see what use your feelings have. Part of the Tao is knowable, part of it is unknowable - so how do you know you've hit upon the knowable part and aren't just wrong about what you think you know? Does it make a difference in how you live? Does it contradict or support science, and if it supports science, what additional information does it give us, and how can we test its validity? It doesn't seem to have any substance at all, there's nothing to grab hold of, no foundation to work on. Believing in the Tao doesn't seem any different to believing in Existence or Reality.

Are some of you guys deists or just atheists?

I don't know that anyone here is a deist. I know Alaric is an atheist, so am I...can't speak for everyone else though.

It isn't any different than believing in existence or reality, for that is what the Tao is. And yes it is true, what we sense may or may not be in actuality, exactly what is being sensed. And I agree that we will never be able to fully know reality. Therefore, we have to rely on those senses, we have no choice. The key here is what does it mean to you, or me, or whoever is sensing it. Since no two people sense things in exactly the same way, there is more to reality than just senses. When I sense the spirit realm, it has a different meaning than if I was just meditating. It has more of a personal meaning, and yes, one that I cannot explain. In the end alaric, what I sense I cannot prove, however, you will never be able to convince me otherwise.

The most debatable topic in all of history has been the existance of God.The reason for this is because of the topics importance.It would prove to be invaluable to know weither God does or does not exist.To know for a certainty that a unlimited presence exist and ultimately controls any and everything in life would halt all denile.On the other hand if God proves not to exist, this would allow the people to further move past the belief in God and move into reality and beyond fantasy.
If we are going to debate weither God exist or not we should choose what God to use as our example.There are many to choose from but there is only one who gives perfect creditdance.That God is the Biblical God and it is He who will be the example here when talking about or describing God.No other God will do, none other has declared so much and has so much historical evidence.God of the Bible claims and is described as being Eternal, Soverign, and the Individual Creator of our life.
The theories on disproving the Bible and more importantly God have always been around.Over the last couple centuries the amount of these theories have rapidly increased.The reason for this is because of science.Science has made many discoveries and inventions within the last 200 years that has completely changed thousands of years of civilzation.
Though science has greatly helped the quality of living for mankind it has also committed many horendous lies.Many in science have supported that a Big Bang took place and evolution resulted.Another theory that has been recently favored is the Sun Birthing theory which also relies on evolution.Any scientist who claims that they have proven these theories to be fact is in fact false.
It is simple to know that we all exist within boundaries.We need food, water, air, and the sun to live and without them all life would die.Knowing we have planets and a sun means there is something beyond this planet and our life that is outside our earthly rules.How can science ever know what to calculate or know all the factors to calculate things outside this earth?I dont think they can.It would seem ultimately impossible to calculate factors that are outside our scientific limitations and physical knowledge.It basically is ultimately a estimate by calculating our own knowledge.So really simple is, all we must do is prove there is knowledge beyond our own in any fabric of life to prove science can not supply true answers.The only way to find true answers from billions or just thousands of years is to ask a source that was or claims to be present at these dates.