dudley thoth
Member
To Master Virgil 8)
I do not believe God is an essence.
I don't really need to answer this one, but I wouldn't object to the notion that God has physicality.
Evil was simultaneously counteracted by the supreme good. In eternity, the beginning and the end are one. It is by the grace of God that the wheel of temporality is slow turning:
The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone come to repentance. 2 Peter 3:9 N.I.V
To be fair, I said the opposite of this.
Difference of opinion is the cause of objectivity only in so far as different people perceive the universe in different ways. I think we can both agree on this.
Right, the truth is objective.
Indeed they do, and they are moral/ethical ones (see above)
This is a fair point. However, it is one that has already been made. (see above)
Yet, it would not be impossible for an intelligent God to reveal the truth, would it?
I feel this has already been covered.
C.S Lewis makes a fair case that the universal way is a ethical/moral one, and so I feel He uses the term fairly. The Dao can also be compared with other cosmic orders that uphold moral principles.
The universe and the order which sustains it is not subjective. As you now say. Our individual or collective perceptions do not dictate reality.
The Confucian way of life can only be practised within one type of society, and it assumes that the natural world is a reflection of that society. All that happens on earth is due to the 'decree of heaven'. and all things have regular courses to follow, the 'way of heaven'-the succession of day and night, the sequence of the four seasons, the harmonious conduct of father and son, rular and minister, husband and wife, elder and younger, friend and friend. All under heaven (the world, that is China) is under the Emporor, the 'Son of heaven', who owes his power to the 'decree of heaven'. Within this all-embracing harmony the moral power of the Emperor and his conduct of ritual have immediate, magical effects on the natural and social order. (The Hutchinson Encyclopedia of Living Faiths, 1959/2001, p.360)
Early Confucian thought (was)...an intuitive process of responding with one's 'te' (moral power, derived from heaven) and harmonising one's actions with it. ('Making Moral Decisions' Holm. J 'ed', 2001, p.170)
The five notes of the Chinese pentatonic scale are associated with the harmony of the five elements and the five planets.... The five social duties...associated with the pentatonic scale are the "five activities of high importance under heaven" announced in the Confucian Doctrine of the Mean. They are, namely, "the obligations between prince and minister; between father and son; between husband and wife; between elder and younger brothers; and between friends. Those" we read, "are the five obligations that have great effects under heaven." "Tuned to tone of Heaven and Earth," we learn from another text of the second century B.C., "the vital spirits of men express all the tremors of Heaven and Earth, and Man does not come from a physical union, from a direct action; it comes from a tuning on the same note producing vibrations in unison....In the Universe there is no hazard, there is no spontineity; all is influence and harmony, accord answering accord." ('Primitive Mythology' Campbell. J, 1969/2000, p.453-4)
For sure, Confucious' ideas were developed to work within a specific society. A society, furthermore that was believed to be the one true copy or reflection of the objective universal order.
I'm sorry that I haven't responded to all you have said in your last post. I'm tired, so I'm off to bed. 8)
God Bless.
Master Vigil said:I do not believe a perfect essence has intelligence,...
I do not believe God is an essence.
...for that is a physical characterisitic.
I don't really need to answer this one, but I wouldn't object to the notion that God has physicality.
And if god had perfect intelligence (which if it wasn't perfect that would limit god) than god would know how to extinguish evil in no time at all.
Evil was simultaneously counteracted by the supreme good. In eternity, the beginning and the end are one. It is by the grace of God that the wheel of temporality is slow turning:
The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone come to repentance. 2 Peter 3:9 N.I.V
It is true that world views are very similar,
To be fair, I said the opposite of this.
But the simple fact that two people may not have the exact same ideas, causes the idea of everything being subjective.
Difference of opinion is the cause of objectivity only in so far as different people perceive the universe in different ways. I think we can both agree on this.
Of course the truth is objective, but our methods of percieving that truth is subjective.
Right, the truth is objective.
Both the buddhist and Jewish may have the same objective goals,
Indeed they do, and they are moral/ethical ones (see above)
but the perception of the path to those goals are still subjective.
This is a fair point. However, it is one that has already been made. (see above)
And the idea of god being a hand in the religion was only written down by mortals, not god.
Yet, it would not be impossible for an intelligent God to reveal the truth, would it?
Many religions will tell you that their god had a hand in their religion. That would mean many religions have the same possibility of ultimate truth.
I feel this has already been covered.
And if that is how C.S. Lewis uses the word Tao than he is already mistaken.
C.S Lewis makes a fair case that the universal way is a ethical/moral one, and so I feel He uses the term fairly. The Dao can also be compared with other cosmic orders that uphold moral principles.
The Tao is nothing more than "The Way of the universe." How we perceive that way is subjective, and we get our ethics and morals from that subjective perception of the Tao.
The universe and the order which sustains it is not subjective. As you now say. Our individual or collective perceptions do not dictate reality.
Confucious taught correct conduct within society and civilization. Not within a universal harmony.
The Confucian way of life can only be practised within one type of society, and it assumes that the natural world is a reflection of that society. All that happens on earth is due to the 'decree of heaven'. and all things have regular courses to follow, the 'way of heaven'-the succession of day and night, the sequence of the four seasons, the harmonious conduct of father and son, rular and minister, husband and wife, elder and younger, friend and friend. All under heaven (the world, that is China) is under the Emporor, the 'Son of heaven', who owes his power to the 'decree of heaven'. Within this all-embracing harmony the moral power of the Emperor and his conduct of ritual have immediate, magical effects on the natural and social order. (The Hutchinson Encyclopedia of Living Faiths, 1959/2001, p.360)
Early Confucian thought (was)...an intuitive process of responding with one's 'te' (moral power, derived from heaven) and harmonising one's actions with it. ('Making Moral Decisions' Holm. J 'ed', 2001, p.170)
The five notes of the Chinese pentatonic scale are associated with the harmony of the five elements and the five planets.... The five social duties...associated with the pentatonic scale are the "five activities of high importance under heaven" announced in the Confucian Doctrine of the Mean. They are, namely, "the obligations between prince and minister; between father and son; between husband and wife; between elder and younger brothers; and between friends. Those" we read, "are the five obligations that have great effects under heaven." "Tuned to tone of Heaven and Earth," we learn from another text of the second century B.C., "the vital spirits of men express all the tremors of Heaven and Earth, and Man does not come from a physical union, from a direct action; it comes from a tuning on the same note producing vibrations in unison....In the Universe there is no hazard, there is no spontineity; all is influence and harmony, accord answering accord." ('Primitive Mythology' Campbell. J, 1969/2000, p.453-4)
Confucious' ideas may not have worked within a roman civilization or a native american tribe, or an egyptian civilization. His ideas were subjective to the civilization in which he lived.
For sure, Confucious' ideas were developed to work within a specific society. A society, furthermore that was believed to be the one true copy or reflection of the objective universal order.
I'm sorry that I haven't responded to all you have said in your last post. I'm tired, so I'm off to bed. 8)
God Bless.