That's a whole lotta detail to believe
about something not objectively
testable.
Why believe your many claims about
this god, when there are so very many
other versions of gods, with very different
characteristics?
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Do those who prefer falsehood over truth deserve hell forever?
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about something not objectively
testable.
Why believe your many claims about
this god, when there are so very many
other versions of gods, with very different
characteristics?
First, because God is linked to your soul, your soul takes on it's value through it's judgment and all your deeds are accounted by his vision of truth.
Secondly, why Islamic God? One: rational proofs as well as miracle proofs that can be detected in the Quran.
For me, both of these are not my reasons though. I have some more personal direct reasons I've explained in the past. It's not that those are not good reasons, but I have better reasons through personal experience.
PureX
Veteran Member
No one.
Then this life should not have been created by God. Why test us, and then same results at the end. Just skip the test.
Consider that most people on Earth don't
have a soul linked to your particular god.
How do you know your link is real, &
that everyone else is wrong?
What are the rational proofs?
And they must be rational, ie, based upon
objective facts & sound logic...not just
self-serving quotes from scripture.
I have personal experience too.
And it's longer than yours.
Yet mine doesn't show validity of any deities.
There is only one God. So it's the same moral judgment, whether people try escape it or accept it.
Moral guidance can only be guaranteed to be correct from God's guidance, all other guidance won't be guaranteed to guide. Since moral guidance is imperative on humans, it follows a guidance will come from God. The nature of that guidance in details must be in archetype form consistent in all times, that is the religion is true in all times. Scripture is helpful, but not the end all. Scripture in fact calls to God's greatest weapons one earth, the leaders of guidance he appoints. This is the solution. There are more details, that to funnel off false claimants and limit who can falsely claim leadership, the closest in kinship claiming it is always the correct one. There is consistency, from one group to another group of guides, a founder followed by twelve successors has always been the case.
God doesn't veil himself from creation except if their actions are for other then him.
IndigoChild5559
Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
Because their evil is limited, their punishment must be limited as well, otherwise it becomes unjust.
There evil in action form results are sometimes limited in harm, but is their intentions a limited form? The unseen good and evil are judged by their intentions and that is linked to an eternal being.
Killing a soul and not giving it a chance to prove itself as well as misguiding souls from God, both have forever consequences. What about misguiding a soul from God? How is that not a forever nature result? Why is that not unlimited?
What is unjust, is that at the end, they escape consequences. That is what is unjust.
IndigoChild5559
Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
We don't punish thoughts. We punish actions. It can be very limited actions, such as designing a plan to commit murder. But if its just an intent in the head that never materializes, its not a sin.
Again, since the harm done is finite, the punishment must also be finite.
Intentions form the actions in the unseen. We die in a state. That state is unseen. If it's spiteful to God and his guides, it should not be forgiven nor escape it's state. It should tastes consequences of it's state forever.
IndigoChild5559
Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
God doesn't punish for a "state." He punishes sins, and he does so with the purpose of teaching us.
If you can live with a God who punishes disproportionately, what can I say? To me, that wouldn't be God. That would be a monster.
IndigoChild5559
Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
Murder is finite.
I dont' think a misguided soul gets punished. I don't imagine for a second that God punishes people for intellectual mistakes. Again, if your god does that and you can live with it, that's your thing, not mine. To me, such a God would be a monster.
muhammad_isa
Well-Known Member
Of course .. but what about people who when you give them a chance, stab you in the back,
and claim to have changed .. but do it again, and again, and again... ... ?
Is it not that such people will eventually not be given any more chances, and will be incarcerated for life?
..and die in secure units?
Why do you think it should be any different in an alternative life .. an afterlife?
God is most severest in punishment in the proper place just as he is the most forgiving and merciful in proper place.
Those who avoid God's door and don't repent, their bet is that they will either way choosing world or not, be favored in the next.
They do two bets. One is that they are righteous and so won't be punished. And the other is that even if they are not righteous, God is merciful and will not punish them.
The second bet ignores that all things manifest God to a degree and have a proper place with God, there is a place for unlimited vengeance just as there is a place for unlimited mercy and appreciation.
God is a monster to his enemies at the end, yet an intimate friend to his followers. It's the way it is.
He is the one who forgives yet his punishment is by design the severest form. God get's the last say and told you so at the end.
How so, when a soul doesn't get a chance to live and prove itself to God.
How so misguiding a soul away from God a finite crime? There are unlimited consequences in that regard.
muhammad_isa
Well-Known Member
G-d does not torture anybody .. G-d is not a person.
Does a person who "cuts off their nose to spite their face" suffer?
Who is responsible for that, would you say?
Spice
StewardshipPeaceIntergityCommunityEquality
So is it a falsehood to appreciate THIS life, this gift of God, this opportunity to do His will and help our fellow man with the love God has instilled in our souls to share?
Is it not a falsehood to waste our energy, our time, our breath, on some world to come instead of the world God has placed us in now? Is it not a falsehood to think, to act, as though God made a mistake in putting us in the here and now?
The Promise of Heaven/Paradise/the World to Come is the easy to swallow nourishment of milk to sustain us until we are able to feed on the sometimes difficult or unpleasant meat of our mission -- to be caretakers of His creation. We shouldn't need a reward to do what we were made flesh to do.
muhammad_isa
Well-Known Member
It is not a case of either/or.
Following a path of righteousness, means following a path that pleases G-d.
That means avoiding that which displeases G-d (sin), and being abundant in that which does (please Him).
Now .. that is what is meant by concentrating on the life hereafter, and it will also bear fruit in this life.
Whereas, concentrating on the spoils & desires of this life can only bring temporary pleasure,
and possible failure, with an insecure afterlife to follow.
This life is as a 'blink of an eye' compared to the eternal life hereafter.
"..G-d is pleased with them, and they are pleased with G-d. This is in store for those that fear their Lord."
- Al Qur'an -
Well, we certainly don't "need" a punishment, surely?
