Do those who prefer falsehood over truth deserve hell forever?

[Link]

With all respect, I don't go in for this "spirit good, matter bad; heaven good, world bad" kind of thing. For all the suffering this world has, it has its beauty, its love, its meaning, whether it is listening to birds sing in the early morning, or looking into the eyes of a newborn, or a hero rescuing a child from a burning building. "God saw all that he had made, and it was very good." Genesis 1:31

The world in the context of Quran doesn't refer to the good things in the physical world which are for us to appreciate God's favor inwardly as well.

It refers to if we make Satan really our direction instead of God. Satan takes over a soul through trickery. The world that is condemned is the deception and goal we live for if we live for other than God.

It's the identity we take on instead of truly recognizing ourselves from God and his Guide and Witness.

Let me quote a hadith:

This world is like a body whose head is pride, whose eyes are avarice, whose ears are greed, whose tongue is dissimulation, whose hand is desire, whose legs are vanity, whose heart is heedlessness, whose being is annihilation, and whose product is extinction.

It brings pride to whoever loves it, avarice to whoever prefers it, greed to whoever seeks it, and cloaks with hypocrisy whoever praises it. It gives vain power over whoever desires it; it leads to heedlessness in the person who relies on it. It seduces whoever admires its goods, but those goods do not last for him. It returns the person who gathers it and is miserly with it to its own abode, which is the Fire.

The source: Misbahal Shariah from Imam Jaffar (a).

 

[IndigoChild5559]

The world in the context of Quran doesn't refer to the good things in the physical world which are for us to appreciate God's favor inwardly as well.

It refers to if we make Satan really our direction instead of God.

Let's not conflate the world with Satan.

 

[Link]

Let's not conflate the world with Satan.

In context of Quran, desiring the world is equal to worshiping Satan. They are two sides of the same coin.

Let me quote the hadith again:

This world is like a body whose head is pride, whose eyes are avarice, whose ears are greed, whose tongue is dissimulation, whose hand is desire, whose legs are vanity, whose heart is heedlessness, whose being is annihilation, and whose product is extinction.

It brings pride to whoever loves it, avarice to whoever prefers it, greed to whoever seeks it, and cloaks with hypocrisy whoever praises it. It gives vain power over whoever desires it; it leads to heedlessness in the person who relies on it. It seduces whoever admires its goods, but those goods do not last for him. It returns the person who gathers it and is miserly with it to its own abode, which is the Fire.

 

[muhammad_isa]

"It doesn't work like that .. " yes it does - if you are in an accident, you and your family lying by the side of the road, in pain, bleeding to death, and an Atheist stops to help, take you to the hospital, will you refuse such help?

No .. you misunderstood me.

What I'm saying, is that good deeds take us closer to G-d, and bad deeds take us away from G-d..
..and that goes for all of us .. believers and disbelievers alike.

..and all of our actions are but by intention.

 

[Link]

No one deserves hell forever.

Even people who human traffic organs of children and refugees?

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Even people who human traffic organs of children and refugees?

Yes.

 

[Revoltingest]

Even people who human traffic organs of children and refugees?

How about people who commit genocide in the name of their religion?

 

[Link]

2. truth can be ugly also

But in the paradigm of Quran, the truth is the beauty as well.

وَصَدَّقَ بِالْحُسْنَىٰ

And accepts the beauty.

Surah Layl, verse 6.

وَكَذَّبَ بِالْحُسْنَىٰ

And denies the beauty

Sural Layl verse 9.

It's emphasized:

وَلِلَّهِ الْأَسْمَاءُ الْحُسْنَىٰ فَادْعُوهُ بِهَا ۖ وَذَرُوا الَّذِينَ يُلْحِدُونَ فِي أَسْمَائِهِ ۚ سَيُجْزَوْنَ مَا كَانُوا يَعْمَلُونَ | To Allah belong the Beautiful Names so supplicate Him by them, and abandon those who commit sacrilege in His names. Soon they shall be requited for what they used to do. | Al-A'raaf : 180

 

[Link]

Yes.

That is not a God I Can worship. A Lord who let's the most evil people at the end get away with their crimes.

 

[Link]

How about people who commit genocide in the name of their religion?

They deserve hell forever.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

That is not a God I Can worship. A Lord who let's the most evil people at the end get away with their crimes.

The God I worship is just. Any eternal punishment would not be proportional to the evil done, thus unjust.

 

[Revoltingest]

They deserve hell forever.

I'd prefer correcting malefactors
instead of eternal torment.

 

[Link]

The God I worship is just. Any eternal punishment would not be proportional to the evil done, thus unjust.

How is the end result that they no longer suffer fair though.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

How is the end result that they no longer suffer fair though.

Huh? The whole idea of an eternal hell is that the suffering never stops. So how would it be that they no longer suffer?

 

[Link]

I'd prefer correcting malefactors
instead of eternal torment.

Some souls can be corrected, some cannot. The best bet is to have death make us fear consequences as a time pressure. If we don't get it right now, we probably can't get it right ever again.

 

[Link]

Huh? The whole idea of an eternal hell is that the suffering never stops. So how would it be that they no longer suffer?

I'm saying, how is it fair that people who died evil at the end stop suffering at a point. To me, the end result has to be different for good and for evil.

 

[Revoltingest]

Some souls can be corrected, some cannot. The best bet is to have death make us fear consequences as a time pressure. If we don't get it right now, we probably can't get it right ever again.

Whoever runs Hell would have to wield omnipotent
supernatural powers. With great power comes great
responsibility, so using it to help every wicked soul
become good would be the only moral path.

 

[Link]

Whoever runs Hell would have to wield omnipotent
supernatural powers. With great power comes great
responsibility, so using it to help every wicked soul
become good would be the only moral path.

How can it help reform souls. They see punishment, it's too late to generate love. It's too late, because God is not hidden, and fearing God while hidden is a virtue, while he is manifest like he will be on the day of judgment, will bring harm to the soul because it knows the consequences of the evil it has become. It's too late to repent and reform at that point.

The believers fear God while hidden but on day of judgment, will not be harmed and will be safe and be expecting reward. This is while disbelievers do not fear God in this world, and will despairingly fear God on day of judgment.

If it's brought back in reincarnation, it's even more corrupt now, and there is no room for goodwill. It's too late when the truth is too clear.

 

[Revoltingest]

How can it help reform souls. They see punishment, it's too late to generate love. It's too late, because God is not hidden....

You believe your God isn't hidden.
I see no sign whatsoever of such a deity...or any deity.
You've no objective evidence...just belief...a feeling.
Not good enuf for me.
To be candid, such beliefs in the supernatural
are akin to mental illness...hearing voices...
obeying their commands....things that
others don't hear (IMO).

Your God would torture someone for eternity,
just because it doesn't communicate effectively?
This would be the most evil deity I could imagine.

 

[Link]

You believe your God isn't hidden.
I see no sign whatsoever of such a deity...or any deity.
You've no objective evidence...just belief...a feeling.
Not good enuf for me.
To be candid, such beliefs in the supernatural
are akin to mental illness...hearing voices...
obeying their commands....things that
others don't hear (IMO).

I'm saying when God is super manifest like he will be on the day of judgment, the soul will be intoxicated with fear of God and it won't be a virtue if it was evil before that. While when God is somewhat hidden to a great degree, the heart that believes and attaches itself to God and hence still fears God and accepts it's judgment on it even while evil, that fear of God will reform the soul and bring it eventually to God.

It's too late to love God when he is out in the open in the clearest way. It's in fact logically impossible to generate love and good will at that point. At that time, reward and punishment is the result, but actions no longer generate value to be rewarded. This is because the truth is too clear at that point. While when God is hidden and Iblis deception takes place, one can sacrifice the world, trust God, follow the unseen path, and all that is virtuous. There is room to generate good will to be rewarded and love of God to be appreciated.