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How would we know if a species was newly evolved?

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
But I wouldn't take his word for it either, people make mistakes.
Christians have also made mistakes and yet you accept Christianity.

Mutations don't usually last in any species as if transitioning them.
They can and sometimes do.

I believed evolution was true. As you can figure by now, I no longer do.
That's unfortunate because it obvious that it has and continues to go on.

Not one shred of real-life, real-time, verifiable proof of any sort.
Then you blew-off my link on speciation that shows modern-day "proof".
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
Christians have also made mistakes and yet you accept Christianity.

They can and sometimes do.

That's unfortunate because it obvious that it has and continues to go on.

Then you blew-off my link on speciation that shows modern-day "proof".
No I didn't blow it off. However it happened they didn't morph from whales to humans. The person that prompted me to finally pray was not even of the belief I finally accepted but he was used (I believe) by God to prompt me to reach out to God. Not to him. I never spoke to that preacher again, he had a radio show. It was a long journey. And I yes, am grateful to God for assisting me on this journey.
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
Christians have also made mistakes and yet you accept Christianity.

They can and sometimes do.

That's unfortunate because it obvious that it has and continues to go on.

Then you blew-off my link on speciation that shows modern-day "proof".
I don't accept all forms of what is called by the many as Christianity.
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
Christians have also made mistakes and yet you accept Christianity.

They can and sometimes do.

That's unfortunate because it obvious that it has and continues to go on.

Then you blew-off my link on speciation that shows modern-day "proof".
Christians have also made mistakes and yet you accept Christianity.

They can and sometimes do.

That's unfortunate because it obvious that it has and continues to go on.

Then you blew-off my link on speciation that shows modern-day "proof".
Remember the scripture that said the road is narrow.
 

Astrophile

Active Member
OK, so in harmony with the question (OP) what, in your opinion, or that gleaned from scientists, is the latest animal species?

I am not a biologist, so I shouldn't try to answer this question. However, I would guess that the ring species of Arctic gulls probably evolved since the last glacial maximum, and therefore within the last 20,000 years.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
I am not a biologist, so I shouldn't try to answer this question. However, I would guess that the ring species of Arctic gulls probably evolved since the last glacial maximum, and therefore within the last 20,000 years.
There are speciation events within the last 100 years. The problem is that there is no hard line in biology. Even with the reproductive definition of "species" there are populations that exist now that do not interbreed but when forced to they can. Is that a new species or not. And there are species that will not normally interbreed that will when forced, but their offspring are of decreased fertility. Then there are two different populations that can interbreed when forced, but their offspring are almost always sterile. In other words even the breeding definition of species is fuzzy. And that fuzzyness was predicted by the theory.

That is why many biologists prefer to work with the concept of clades today. Species was a man made definition that was made before we understood that life evolves. As a result it is a flawed definition since it cannot match reality. Clades gets rid of that problem. Species can still be a useful tool for naming different populations, but one has to be aware of its limitations.

If you Google search "Rapid speciation events" you will find quite a few articles like this one:

https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.1615109114
 

ppp

Well-Known Member
OK, so in harmony with the question (OP) what, in your opinion, or that gleaned from scientists, is the latest animal species?
I am not a biologist, so I shouldn't try to answer this question. However, I would guess that the ring species of Arctic gulls probably evolved since the last glacial maximum, and therefore within the last 20,000 years.
There's a lot more natural recent speciation events than that. The Daphne Finch was produced about 50 years ago and took only two or three generations to establish itself.
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
I am not a biologist, so I shouldn't try to answer this question. However, I would guess that the ring species of Arctic gulls probably evolved since the last glacial maximum, and therefore within the last 20,000 years.
Why would you need to be a biologist? I'm asking what should be considered a fairly simple question. I'll just guess that the ring species of Arctic gulls is a bird. Right? So let me keep it simple. Homo sapiens, in your opinion, is or isn't the latest species/form/animal in the process, but you think a bird is? So I'm guessing that you and others believe further species evolved after homo sapiens, they're only in the ape family. OK, so I'll stick to apes. Since that's what so many believe, homo sapiens are part of the ape family. Anything in the ape family after homo sapiens?
 

Dan From Smithville

What we've got here is failure to communicate.
Staff member
Premium Member
Why would you need to be a biologist? I'm asking what should be considered a fairly simple question. I'll just guess that the ring species of Arctic gulls is a bird. Right? So let me keep it simple. Homo sapiens, in your opinion, is or isn't the latest species/form/animal in the process, but you think a bird is? So I'm guessing that you and others believe further species evolved after homo sapiens, they're only in the ape family. OK, so I'll stick to apes. Since that's what so many believe, homo sapiens are part of the ape family. Anything in the ape family after homo sapiens?
Other species unrelated to us have evolved since Homo sapiens evolved.

The cichlid (fish) superflock of species from Lake Victoria in Africa is an example of recent speciation over the last 15,000 years.

All of this is based on evidence. The evidence indicates that 15,000 years ago there was no Lake Victoria and only a creek flowing through a grassland. The cichlid species in question do not exist anywhere else on Earth so they did not migrate in. They are genetically related.

What point are you trying to make with this?
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
Other species unrelated to us have evolved since Homo sapiens evolved.

The cichlid (fish) superflock of species from Lake Victoria in Africa is an example of recent speciation over the last 15,000 years.

All of this is based on evidence. The evidence indicates that 15,000 years ago there was no Lake Victoria and only a creek flowing through a grassland. The cichlid species in question do not exist anywhere else on Earth so they did not migrate in. They are genetically related.

What point are you trying to make with this?
I guess I remember the usual famous drawing of little chimp like animals turning into homo sapiens. The question is what did the first ape-like beings evolve from?
How Did Humans Evolve? - HISTORY
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Why would you need to be a biologist? I'm asking what should be considered a fairly simple question. I'll just guess that the ring species of Arctic gulls is a bird. Right? So let me keep it simple. Homo sapiens, in your opinion, is or isn't the latest species/form/animal in the process, but you think a bird is? So I'm guessing that you and others believe further species evolved after homo sapiens, they're only in the ape family. OK, so I'll stick to apes. Since that's what so many believe, homo sapiens are part of the ape family. Anything in the ape family after homo sapiens?
That is asked rather awkwardly. Are you asking if there are any other apes more recent than Homo sapiens?

I am not sure. I may be able to check, but before I do what difference does it make?
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
I guess I remember the usual famous drawing of little chimp like animals turning into homo sapiens. The question is what did the first ape-like beings evolve from?
How Did Humans Evolve? - HISTORY
The drawing is only an artists interpretation. Don't give that too much credence. In fact it is usually incredibly wrong since the first species that you see is often a modern chimp.

Don't go to artistic sources for scientific questions.
 

Dan From Smithville

What we've got here is failure to communicate.
Staff member
Premium Member
Without looking it up, let's say that is the thinking of scientists today. What did the "Old World monkey stock" evolve from if you know?
I don't know offhand, but I'm confident it was some small mammal that evolved out of what was left of the world after the Chicxulub impact that resulted in the extinction of most of the major dinosaur lines.
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
I don't know offhand, but I'm confident it was some small mammal that evolved out of what was left of the world after the Chicxulub impact that resulted in the extinction of most of the major dinosaur lines.
The question in my mind is this: scientists estimate that chimpanzees evolved so many years ago, same with hominids, yet chimpanzees remain chimpanzees, humans remain humans, platypuses remain platypuses. So where is any evidence of chimpanzees evolving, etc.?
 

Dan From Smithville

What we've got here is failure to communicate.
Staff member
Premium Member
I guess I remember the usual famous drawing of little chimp like animals turning into homo sapiens. The question is what did the first ape-like beings evolve from?
How Did Humans Evolve? - HISTORY
I still get the impression that your concept of evolution is a linear chain that includes all species physically transforming into the next in a single step and that species that follow are directly related to the preceding species by that chain of transformation. If I am correct in your concept, that is not how it is explained to work by science or the evidence. Evolution is a branching, with basal groups much more distantly related to other basal groups, while those within the group are increasingly more closely related. We are only distantly related to monkeys as primates, but more closely related to the other great ape species as the hominids which are still primates.

Do you not think that God would be powerful enough to contrive life to follow a pattern of evolution if He chose? Do you think that Stone Age/Bronze Age people would have had the knowledge and understood a detailed technical explanation or the more likely metaphorical explanations found in the Bible?
 
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Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
The question in my mind is this: scientists estimate that chimpanzees evolved so many years ago, same with hominids, yet chimpanzees remain chimpanzees, humans remain humans, platypuses remain platypuses.
:facepalm::facepalm::facepalm:

There you go making the "change of kind" error again. Our offspring will always be humans, Just as we are still apes. There is no "evolving into something else" in the creationist sense. It is highly unlikely, but there could be an event in the future where two different populations of humans become separated from each other and they could evolve to the point that they could not longer interbreed. They would be two different species, but they would be two different species of Homo sapiens.

Do not get too distracted by names. The naming system that we currently use is flawed since it is based upon creationism. If you work with populations your question becomes pointless. And that is the way that one should think when dealing with evolution.
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
Christians have also made mistakes and yet you accept Christianity.
.
What mistakes are you talking about? Just to be clear, I accept that Moses lived as written, Jesus lived as written in the holy scriptures. I accept this with reason and faith. So what mistakes are you talking about?
 
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