I love dharmic religions

Brian2 · Jan 14, 2022

Ashoka said:
Again, that depends on the school. We are, in my sect, God; we just need to realize it. My school is monistic and panentheistic. So God is immanent and transcendent in His creation. At the end of the world, of the universe, we all return to God, and the cycle begins again. Does that make sense?

If the cycle begins again what is the point of it over and over and over forever?

Ashoka said:
What has changed is that we realize our true nature and who we are. It's not for notrhing; we are blinded by Maya, Karma and Anava, which clouds our true nature, but when we are free of that, we are free from the cycle of birth and death and merge with God.

That I guess cannot be a bad thing. The point is that the suffering happens for nothing if it is just God forgetting who He is and God teaching Himself who He is again.
Then again if we are God then God is just putting Himself through all the suffering.
Why would I, as God, do that?
Or maybe the whole process of the cycles is just something God cannot help.

firedragon · Jan 14, 2022

Brian2 said:
I tend to learn a bit more by being wrong in what I say.

We all do brotherman. Yet, I get what you say.

SalixIncendium · Jan 14, 2022

Brian2 said:
The point I was trying to make is that in a pantheistic religion where God is all, there would be no need for any ignorance or suffering. It seems it would be produced either through the will of God or because God cannot help but go down that path.
I cannot see how God could become ignorant of who He is.
I cannot see why God would have to come and teach Himself about who He is etc

Read this cute little children's parable...

The Search for God

Brian2 · Jan 16, 2022

SalixIncendium said:
Read this cute little children's parable...

The Search for God

And then God has to teach His lost parts just who they are.
So the parable does not make sense and I guess it is not really meant to anyway. It seems to be just a way to explain away this huge problem in pantheism and of course it satisfies a devotee no doubt, who would put it down as something that we don't know the right answer to.
But I would say there are only a limited number of possibilities for an answer and whichever we choose, it does reveal some things about this pantheistic.

SalixIncendium · Jan 16, 2022

Brian2 said:
And then God has to teach His lost parts just who they are.
So the parable does not make sense and I guess it is not really meant to anyway. It seems to be just a way to explain away this huge problem in pantheism and of course it satisfies a devotee no doubt, who would put it down as something that we don't know the right answer to.
But I would say there are only a limited number of possibilities for an answer and whichever we choose, it does reveal some things about this pantheistic.

Based on your first sentence, you've missed the point of the parable entirely. You are stuck in the mindset of God being transcendent.

Brian2 · Jan 16, 2022

SalixIncendium said:
Based on your first sentence, you've missed the point of the parable entirely. You are stuck in the mindset of God being transcendent.

Is it not true that God has to teach His lost parts just who they are?

SalixIncendium · Jan 16, 2022

Brian2 said:
Is it not true that God has to teach His lost parts just who they are?

In the context of pantheism, God has no parts separate from itself.

Brian2 · Jan 16, 2022

SalixIncendium said:
In the context of pantheism, God has no parts separate from itself.

OK so the whole thing is a game because God was bored and then God forgot whom He really was in the game, but did not really forget because He actually knows and comes and spreads His teachings around to teach Himself and nobody is really suffering except God so what is the problem anyway. And if people are suffering that is fine because it is their karma from a merciful God who wants to teach us (Himself) the truth to save us (Himself) from His own game,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,which He is going to repeat in the next cycle, and we can't wait.
And even if I don't know that I am God, I can't say that this part of God does not know that because God has no parts. So I'm gagged unless I know that language of Hinduism which is all Sanskrit to me.

Actually in Christianity and Judaism people say God is one and has no parts, but that does not stop discussion.

Ashoka · Jan 16, 2022

Brian2 said:
OK so the whole thing is a game because God was bored and then God forgot whom He really was in the game, but did not really forget because He actually knows and comes and spreads His teachings around to teach Himself and nobody is really suffering except God so what is the problem anyway. And if people are suffering that is fine because it is their karma from a merciful God who wants to teach us (Himself) the truth to save us (Himself) from His own game,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,which He is going to repeat in the next cycle, and we can't wait.
And even if I don't know that I am God, I can't say that this part of God does not know that because God has no parts. So I'm gagged unless I know that language of Hinduism which is all Sanskrit to me.

Actually in Christianity and Judaism people say God is one and has no parts, but that does not stop discussion.

I feel like no matter how we explain it to you, you're just intent on not wanting to understand it.

Vinayaka · Jan 16, 2022

Ashoka said:
I feel like no matter how we explain it to you, you're just intent on not wanting to understand it.

Or incapable. There are tons of concepts I don't understand.

Brian2 · Jan 16, 2022

Ashoka said:
I feel like no matter how we explain it to you, you're just intent on not wanting to understand it.

I just don't understand. You haven't tried many ways.
Maybe you're intent on not wanting to understand what I am saying.
Is it that I am wrong and you can point out where I am wrong. If you could do that it no doubt would help my understanding.

Ashoka · Jan 16, 2022

Brian2 said:
I just don't understand. You haven't tried many ways.
Maybe you're intent on not wanting to understand what I am saying.
Is it that I am wrong and you can point out where I am wrong. If you could do that it no doubt would help my understanding.

I do understand what you are saying and it's not what Hinduism, at least my sect, teaches.

From Dancing with Shiva:

"Rishis proclaim that we are not our body, mind or emotions. We are divine souls on a wondrous journey. We came from God, live in God and are evolving into oneness with God. We are, in truth, the Truth we seek.

We are immortal souls living and growing in the great school of earthly experience in which we have lived many lives. Vedic Rishis have given us courage by uttering the simple truth, “God is the Life of our life.” A great sage carried it further by saying there is one thing God cannot do: God cannot separate Himself from us. This is because God is our life. God is the life in the birds. God is the life in the fish. God is the life in the animals. Becoming aware of this Life energy in all that lives is becoming aware of God’s loving presence within us. We are the undying consciousness and energy flowing through all things.

Deep inside we are perfect this very moment, and we have only to discover and live up to this perfection to be whole. Our energy and God’s energy are the same, ever coming out of the void. We are all beautiful children of God. Each day we should try to see the life energy in trees, birds, animals and people. When we do, we are seeing God Shiva in action. The Vedas affirm, “He who knows God as the Life of life, the Eye of the eye, the Ear of the ear, the Mind of the mind—he indeed compre hends fully the Cause of all causes.”

It's a Panentheistic way of looking at the world. God is life, He is the life force in everything. We come from God and are God. It's just that we have to realize it. It's not God being cruel; it's Him showing us that we are not this body. We are so much more than we think we are. This is especially important to remember in Kali Yuga, the age of Dharma decline, that we are in right now. People think they are different or seperate from God, but Maya (illusion) is what causes that. When we break the illusion, we see that we are God.

You keep asking if we are God's lost parts; no. Like it says above, the one thing God cannot do is seperate Himself from us. We are still one with Him, we just need to remember. One day, everyone will remember.

stvdv · Jan 18, 2022

Ashoka said:
Christianity and Islam teach this; they teach that you are evil for simply believing differently, and this has been the cause and the excuse of many wars and genocides throughout the ages. We forget we are brothers and sisters, that we live on this earth together. We are actually one family, but Abrahamic religions (except Judaism) seek to divide.

Indeed they do practise this. So weird

Because

Jesus said "thou shall not judge (other's Faith)"

Brian2 · Jan 18, 2022

Ashoka said:
I do understand what you are saying and it's not what Hinduism, at least my sect, teaches.

From Dancing with Shiva:

"Rishis proclaim that we are not our body, mind or emotions. We are divine souls on a wondrous journey. We came from God, live in God and are evolving into oneness with God. We are, in truth, the Truth we seek.

We are immortal souls living and growing in the great school of earthly experience in which we have lived many lives. Vedic Rishis have given us courage by uttering the simple truth, “God is the Life of our life.” A great sage carried it further by saying there is one thing God cannot do: God cannot separate Himself from us. This is because God is our life. God is the life in the birds. God is the life in the fish. God is the life in the animals. Becoming aware of this Life energy in all that lives is becoming aware of God’s loving presence within us. We are the undying consciousness and energy flowing through all things.

Deep inside we are perfect this very moment, and we have only to discover and live up to this perfection to be whole. Our energy and God’s energy are the same, ever coming out of the void. We are all beautiful children of God. Each day we should try to see the life energy in trees, birds, animals and people. When we do, we are seeing God Shiva in action. The Vedas affirm, “He who knows God as the Life of life, the Eye of the eye, the Ear of the ear, the Mind of the mind—he indeed compre hends fully the Cause of all causes.”

It's a Panentheistic way of looking at the world. God is life, He is the life force in everything. We come from God and are God. It's just that we have to realize it. It's not God being cruel; it's Him showing us that we are not this body. We are so much more than we think we are. This is especially important to remember in Kali Yuga, the age of Dharma decline, that we are in right now. People think they are different or seperate from God, but Maya (illusion) is what causes that. When we break the illusion, we see that we are God.

You keep asking if we are God's lost parts; no. Like it says above, the one thing God cannot do is seperate Himself from us. We are still one with Him, we just need to remember. One day, everyone will remember.

I thought you had said that your belief is pantheistic but you said panentheistic.
Maybe that is why what I said does not fit with your view of Hinduism.
Nevertheless if you still see us as being God deep down then we must have started off as God.
In that sense, what I said does apply to panentheism also imo.

Brian2 · Jan 18, 2022

stvdv said:
Indeed they do practise this. So weird

Because

Jesus said "thou shall not judge (other's Faith)"

Jesus did not say anything about judging someone's faith. Indeed if you or I see out beliefs as being true then we have already judged the, in part at least, the beliefs of others.
We are not to judge a person however because of their beliefs.

Ashoka · Jan 18, 2022

Brian2 said:
I thought you had said that your belief is pantheistic but you said panentheistic.

I didn't say that. Another poster did. No two Hindus are alike. Yes, my sect is panentheistic.

Brian2 said:
Nevertheless if you still see us as being God deep down then we must have started off as God.

Again, from Dancing with Shiva, which I quoted:

"We came from God, live in God and are evolving into oneness with God. We are, in truth, the Truth we seek."

There is no "started off" because we are not apart from God. We are still God. We just need to remember. In the passage I quoted, it says that the one thing God cannot do is separate from us. In other words, there was no "starting off" it is that we "still are." Moksha is remembering that fact.

Brian2 · Jan 18, 2022

Ashoka said:
I didn't say that. Another poster did. No two Hindus are alike. Yes, my sect is panentheistic.

Again, from Dancing with Shiva, which I quoted:

"We came from God, live in God and are evolving into oneness with God. We are, in truth, the Truth we seek."

There is no "started off" because we are not apart from God. We are still God. We just need to remember. In the passage I quoted, it says that the one thing God cannot do is separate from us. In other words, there was no "starting off" it is that we "still are." Moksha is remembering that fact.

And part of the problem for me is God forgetting that fact in the first place.

stvdv · Jan 18, 2022

Brian2 said:
Jesus did not say anything about judging someone's faith

Exactly, I agree. Jesus did not say that we should judge other's Faith, hence I don't

Brian2 said:
Indeed if you or I see out beliefs as being true then we have already judged the, in part at least,

I do not see my Faith as the Truth, hence I do not see other's Faith as superior or inferior either

stvdv · Jan 18, 2022

Ashoka said:
No two Hindus are alike

Ashoka said:
"We are, in truth, the Truth we seek."

I agree

And according to this Truth, "all Hindus are alike", when seen from this POV

stvdv · Jan 18, 2022

Brian2 said:
And part of the problem for me is God forgetting that fact in the first place.

Then you misunderstand the Hindu Teaching. But, this is a tricky one, as in "not easy to grasp". Hence, this so called Maya tricks the majority

God is not forgetting anything

Humans identifying themselves with body, emotions, mind tend to forget being drowned in sensory pleasure, forgetting their real identity.

It's all about POV

I love dharmic religions

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