Atheists have faith.

TransmutingSoul said:

The Attributes are the way we can define what God is for us.

Using the attributes, we create and build an advancing civilization, the lack of the attributes brings death and decay.

In the material world this is also reflected.

Click to expand...

This lacks any coherency. But it is clear you think God is imaginary.

This is what the OP is about, how an athiest is also living life in faith, if they live the Attributes as the highest aim of religions, is for the followers to live by all the God given attributes. All we can know of God is attributes.

Thus giving ones life in attributes enables us to serve all humanity, it is a strong faith that in doing the right thing, we can help each other and build a better world.

Click to expand...

More Chopra nonsense. No facts. No explanation of facts.

So what we have discovered thus far is that atheists don't have religious faith.

Tiberius said:

I think you are misunderstanding the burden of proof.

Click to expand...

I am not trying to prove anything to you, I just said so.

ChristineM said:

No, devotion to an imaginary being only works if you believe in an imaginary being and put you imagination ahead of humanity

How do you know what your god wants. I am betting he/she/it wants exactly the same as you.

Click to expand...

That is all gleaned from the Baha'i Writings, it is just my opinion gleaned from those Writings, which I investigated for myself. Of course your mileage may vary from mine.

Unveiled Artist said:

I wasn't raised in a religious environment so if not former friend in HS I'd know nothing of Christianity. I knew more about the bible and going to mass (her church) but because I wasn't introduced to a creator it felt half hearted.

I didn't know what people meant by gods (least the human experience people have in common per being human) until I came on RF.

I'd say I can't put faith in the existence of something without a solid concept or fact of what that something is.

It's actually not an "atheist" thing. Contrary to popular opinion I never heard the word and it's variations until RF.

Click to expand...

Of all the people here, you are one of the people I find hardest to follow.

Truthseeker9 said:

Of all the people here, you are one of the people I find hardest to follow.

Click to expand...

How so?
In language?

If not, I'm not quite sure what you mean. Have you talked with anyone who haven't had a god-concept before atheist or otherwise?

Unveiled Artist said:

It assumes if I can't explain my view yours is credited.

Click to expand...

It does? Just like the last post I don't understand you.

Unveiled Artist said:

I wasn't raised belief in a creator and as an adult it's just not part of my reality.

Click to expand...

I got that from your previous post. You sound similar to @Trailblazer. She wasn't raised with a belief in a creator. Where this diverges is that she investigated the Baha'i Faith and she found is reasonable. By her logic, there can be no Manifestation of God without there being God. At any rate for any of us God cannot

Unveiled Artist said:

It can't be logical fallacies like argument of design, majority rules, and other fallacies.

It has to have a solid description of it's some thing you can prove and not an idea, experience, etc shaped by culture.

If that's impossible, then you understand my point. Concepts of god are shaped by the people and culture that believes and creates it into existence.

Click to expand...

God can't be proved with logic here, I have found. Concets of God from my point of view come from Prophets for some, and some from their imagination.

Unveiled Artist said:

We can explain the theory of the universe expansion, creation of planets, and evolution if man. Science can say "we don't know."

Click to expand...

Yes, I know.

Unveiled Artist said:

Last/nother thought.

If a creator exist it can't be dependent on the people who believe it and it can't have different definitions. It has to be known by atheist and theist alike regardless if they choose to have faith In it or not.

Click to expand...

Say what? There are different opinions of course, and in the end God is unknowable. God depending on people is absurd.

F1fan said:

Then why bring up a God at all?

Why should anyone have to prove elves didn't create the universe? Or a god. Or some other idea that isn't known to exist?

Click to expand...

Never mind. This line seems absurd to me.

Unveiled Artist said:

How so?
In language?

If not, I'm not quite sure what you mean. Have you talked with anyone who haven't had a god-concept before atheist or otherwise?

Click to expand...

You wander around all over the place, and I can't follow your logic which seems contorted sometimes.

Truthseeker9 said:

Say what? There are different opinions of course, and in the end God is unknowable. God depending on people is absurd.

Click to expand...

How do you prove God exist when it's unknownable?

Attributes describe it's character but not what it is.

I can't prove something doesn't exist that I have no concept of. You mentioned you can prove God, how so?

Truthseeker9 said:

Yes, I know.

Click to expand...

Even with the first half of the post?

Truthseeker9 said:

You wander around all over the place, and I can't follow your logic which seems contorted sometimes.

Click to expand...

I can't tell sometimes if it's just language or readers just don't agree but discredit my points as an indirect means of doing so. Sometimes they understand but kind of ran out of words.

Unveiled Artist said:

How do you prove God exist when it's unknownable?

Attributes describe it's character but not what it is.

Click to expand...

Baha'u'llah offers that only by the Messengers person, life and Message can we know God, they are the essence of all the attributes.

Regards Tony

Unveiled Artist said:

How do you prove God exist when it's unknownable?

Attributes describe it's character but not what it is.

I can't prove something doesn't exist that I have no concept of. You mentioned you can prove God, how so?

Click to expand...

I mentioned I can prove God? I don't remember doing that. You can only prove it to yourself through your own investigation. If I said I can prove God, that is wrong. Yes, God is beyond all possible conception of anyone, including a Prophet.

TransmutingSoul said:

I see that many that do not have a belief in God or a Religion, still have Faith. I see that many actions are based on morals that transcend this mortal world and are thus undertaken in Faith.

Click to expand...

No, you have to demonstrate that these actions "transcend this mortal world". They do not. They are actions based on well being and living peacefully. Acting out against others brings negative results. We also have biological functions that give us empathy. Nothing there is beyond the mortal world. All these morals and actions are designed to help live a successful life. Nothing to do with otherworldly morals. That is extra baggage you are superimposing on the concepts because you have an agenda.
The agenda is giving evidence to something that actually doesn't have evidence.

TransmutingSoul said:

It could be seen that it is naught but a faith to take a stance that there is no God.

Click to expand...

Right but that isn't atheism. I don't believe in your God for the same reason you don't believe in Lord Krishna or Zeus. It's a belief that there isn't evidence. And that is demonstrable. I thought we were past these tired apologetics by now?

TransmutingSoul said:

Could that be a coping mechanism, that those that choose this path will not be held accountable for their decisions, that they think they are free of the weight of this world, that they will live how they want to, die and that's it?

Click to expand...

That is literally the worst apologetic ever. Do you not believe in Osirus because you don't want to follow his rules or is it because you know it's fiction?
I personally would be glad to know Gods were real and there was an afterlife. I could care less about living some ridiculous wild life. I want to work, work out and do my hobbies. Free of the weight of the world? Are you insane? We have all the same stress except we don't have a magic friend in space and when we die we know there is no afterlife. Heaven and souls that go there is a Hellenistic concept added onto Judaism during the 2nd Temple Period. It's fiction.
These are more ridiculous apologetics that add bizarre motivations to atheists to seemingly help believers feel better about their beliefs.

TransmutingSoul said:

Does this free a person from considering that there may be deeper moral or ethical responsibilities, when all we have to use as boundaries, are the materialistic trends?

Click to expand...

This isn't an argument. People do not get morals from religion. They pick and choose just like everyone does. We make our moral systems.

TransmutingSoul said:

Personally I have faith and I am thankful that I will be accountable for the decisions I make and the weight of the world can be fully experienced and appreciated.

Click to expand...

Everyone is accountable for decisions because of cause and effect and emotional consequences of actions. Ideas about some afterlife where you review your life with a deity are myths not supported by evidence.
Faith in this context just means you were told a story that doesn't have evidence and you decided to believe it.
Some people have faith their race is superior or men are better than women. Faith is not a reliable path to truth.

TransmutingSoul said:

"All humanity must obtain a livelihood by sweat of the brow and bodily exertion, at the same time seeking to lift the burden of others, striving to be the source of comfort to souls and facilitating the means of living. This in itself is devotion to God. Bahá’u’lláh has thereby encouraged action and stimulated service."

‘Abdu’l-Bahá: Promulgation of Universal Peace, p. 182

" Every person must have an occupation, a trade or a craft, so that he may carry other people's burdens, and not himself be a burden to others."

‘Abdu’l-Bahá, The Compilation of Compilations vol. I, p. 3

Faith is a service to all we cross paths with, without faith, one can deprive themselves from such service. With Faith our heart longs to be of this service.

Click to expand...

Deepak Chopra says stuff like this also. Some good advice doesn't make someone a supernatural being that should be worshipped without evidence.

TransmutingSoul said:

So I see an Athiest can have Faith when they too transcend their own desires and serve others in preference of self.

So that is the debate, but is it really a debate?

Do you give of yourself to others?

As this action is a fundamental Faith based moral decision, do you have faith that action leads to better outcomes?

Click to expand...

No that isn't faith. You are taking things that have demonstrable evidence and attempting to shoehorn your version of
"faith" into the same group. The fact is believing myths to be real is not the same as acting with goodwill. We have evidence that this behavior will benefit us emotionally and will bring outcomes that are desired.
When we are children we act a bit selfish and cruel towards others sometimes. We learn that this creates all sorts of problems. We also learn compassion and do not want to cause suffering and as the brain develops physically and emotionally we learn through experience and from adults. This is nothing like faith in stories?

TransmutingSoul said:

So do you see we all have the ability of Faith, that all we need to know is if it exists?

So we fly because we see a aircraft exists, we have faith it will fly?

Regards Tony

Click to expand...

See this is what I mean. To compare religious faith to understanding aircraft safety is absurd. Faith in an aircraft would be - a man has a revelation from God about how to build a new aircraft, completely different from all other aircraft using completely different principles of flight. He builds the experimental craft and you decide to test fly it because you have faith in this God.

Normal aircraft have probabilities that are already known. Evidence. It's no different than driving. In both cases the probability is good that you will survive. That is not faith in the sense you mean. The faith you mean is faith that I could take any God ever written about and claim I have faith that this God is real.
No one flies planes on faith. Even test pilots trust the engineers who are insanely smart.

And I believe that you would not do anything on this faith either. Outside of believing a religion.
If a chemist was looking for a new medication and prayed to the same God to guide his hand and he picked out a bunch of random chemicals and mixed them up would you take the pill? Or would you demand a new medicine follow known protocols and then follow up with animal testing and human trials? Things that are done on evidence, knowledge, trials and centuries of scholarship are not "faith" based?

F1fan said:

Bigotry isn't just a personal problem if a religious ideology is bigoted. That means the dogma is pressuring the adherents to adopt the prejudice.

Click to expand...

Baha'is have no bigotry or prejudice against anyone. Baha'i Laws only apply to people who choose to be Baha'is, not to anyone else. If people don't like the Laws they do not have to join the religion. Baha'i Laws are God's laws so I don't question them, thinking I could know more than God, which is logically impossible.

TransmutingSoul said:

It has been demonstrated how they were the aims of faiths past, but the capacity of men has veiled those intents.

Click to expand...

Demonstrated, how? I've see this as a Baháʼí claim, I've seen no demonstration. Also, remember that religion includes a lot more than those that Baháʼís think were founded by 'messengers' (good luck with demonstrating it with even those). For example, Aztec human sacrifices were religious acts.