Mitty
Active Member
Is that why Moses & Noah & Abraham & David etc weren't saved and never went to heaven (John 3:13), even though David was his god's begotten son (Psalm 2:7)?
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Why I believe in Christ
- Thread starter mmarco
- Start date
Jesus' sacrifice of his sinless life was to balance the ' scales of justice ' for us.
Sinless Adam broke God's Law, Adam made himself into a self-made sinner.
Since we are all born 'after ' Adam sinned we inherited Adam's then acquired human imperfection with its leanings / toward wrongdoing.
ALL sinners die and because we can't resurrect oneself or another is a reason why God sent sinless Jesus to Earth for us to undo what Adam did.
Jesus being sinless meant Jesus' life had more value than a sinner's life.
Satan challenges all of us (Job 2:4-5)
Touch our 'flesh...' (loose physical health ) and we would Not serve God.
Both Job and Jesus under adverse conditions proved Satan a liar and so can we.
Because 'sinless Jesus' died faithful is why his God resurrected dead Jesus - Acts 2:24,32; 3:15; 5:30; 13:30,37
Scripture please
Mitty
Active Member
Why would a god want to sacrifice itself to itself in order to pay for your sins, or is that just a business model used for tithing to preacher men selling after-death salvation?
Mitty
Active Member
Where did Jesus say that he was sinless, given that he said he wasn't without sin (Mark 10:18)?
OtherSheep
<--@ Titangel
Paul says what he wanted to do, he couldn't pull off. No wonder he made up his vicarious righteousness doctrine.
In fact, what does any of that have to do with
Jesus, the literally Theanthropic Man?
Something like flesh isn't flesh...
and in appearance a man isn't flesh either...
1 John says the antichrist's deny that Jesus came in the flesh. Flesh means actual physical, capable-of-sinning flesh, just like we have.
Jesus didn't take the nature of a servant, He literally became a servant.
What comfort would it be to any of us, to say that our great example Jesus doesn't really get it, because it couldn't have happened to Him?
Weren't saved (?) or rather -> Not yet resurrected - Hebrews chapter 11. Hebrews 11:13; Hebrews 11:39.
ALL who died before Jesus' died could have a future happy-and-healthy physical resurrection.
This is why Acts of the Apostles 24:15 uses the future tense that there ' is going to be ' a resurrection......
That future resurrection takes place during Jesus' Millennium-Long Day of governing over Earth in righteousness for a thousand years.
Then, resurrected David will be a ' prince ' on Earth - Ezekiel 34:24; Ezekiel 37:25 B; Psalms 45:16; Isaiah 32.
As for those of us still living the advice is: be found faithful to the end (Jesus' coming) in order to be saved according to Matthew 24:13.
OtherSheep
<--@ Titangel
Actually,
Jesus gave up His life to give the Holy Spirit to His followers. He says they cannot bear it now... about the things He wants to tell them... because since the time of Jesus' baptism, the Holy Spirit had lit on Him and stayed. Without that link between God and man, man cannot bear it at all... a sheep understands just barely enough to recognize the voice of the one and only good shepherd [all of John 10]. Jesus' dying prepared the way of Resurrection for those who would follow Him: do what He tells us to do.
OtherSheep
<--@ Titangel
I find at Mark 10:18 Jesus says only God is good.
The man was using the word Master or Teacher (Mark 10:17) to be flattering to Jesus ( the religious leaders demanded such titles )
Jesus had No objections to being Teacher or Lord but always directed all honor to be given to his Father - Revelation 4:11
Not in a relative sense but in the 'absolute sense' God is Good - Matthew 19:17; Luke 18:19
God's inspired Word informs us Jesus was sinless at Hebrews 4:15 B. Jesus was separate from sinners - Hebrews 7:26
I find Jesus truthfully answers the people as to who he is at John 10:36 -> God's Son.
Since Jesus is a creation by his God (Revelation 3:14) then Jesus is Not his own God.
Even the resurrected ascended-to-heaven Jesus still thinks he has a God over him according to Revelation 3:12.
OtherSheep
<--@ Titangel
Abram was told by God to sacrifice Isaac, but God provided the ram instead. That tells us a few things, some of which are these:
- Human sacrifice was commonplace in order to appease the gods.
- Abram wasn't shocked by the command.
- Human sacrifice is not of God's doing.
Micah 6:6 Wherewithal shall I reach the Lord, and lay hold of My God most high? shall I reach Him by whole-burnt-offerings, by calves of a year old?
7 Will the Lord accept thousands of rams, or ten thousands of fat goats? should I give my first-born for ungodliness, the fruit of my body for the sin of my soul?
8 Has it not been told thee, O man, what is good? or what does the Lord require of thee, but to do justice, and love mercy, and be ready to walk with the Lord thy God?
Matthew 26:39 And He went a little further, and fell on His face, and prayed, saying, O My Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from Me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou [wilt].
Jesus was obedient unto death as our example. Not because He wanted us to worship the cross that killed Him.
OtherSheep
<--@ Titangel
Revelation 1:11 Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send [it] unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea. ...
1:18 I [am] He that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.
Matthew 16:15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
OtherSheep
<--@ Titangel
Not having gone to heaven doesn't mean not saved. We're said to be resting, when we're dead. Psalm 2 is about Jesus, not David.
Yes, the cup was Not a literal cup but stood for Jesus' assigned portion of God's will, God's purpose for Jesus.
Jesus did Not want to die labeled or charged as a blasphemer (one who curses God) this is why Jesus prays 3 times to have that 'cup' removed.
Micah 6:6-8 lets us know God understands our limitations and He never requires more of us that we are able to give.
Thus, from Gods' standpoint our relationship with spiritual brothers is an important aspect of true worship - James 1:27
If we want God to accept our sacrifices (what we give up in order to serve Him ) we must treat others with love and respect.- Psalms 50:23; Psalms 19:7-11
Jesus tells us as to Who to worship at John 4:23-24.
Abraham and Isaac were so confident of the physical resurrection - Genesis 22:5 - that is why Abraham said he and the lad (Isaac) would come again to them.
Abe knew about the promise of the coming ' seed ' (offspring) Genesis 3:15 - and Isaac would have to be alive in the flesh to help fulfill prophecy.
God's promise was Not just to Abraham alone but included Sarah according to Genesis 21:12 B.
Right: human sacrifice is Not of God's doing -> Jeremiah 32:35 B; 2 Chronicles 28:3; Deuteronomy 12:31; 18:10
Yes, after his God resurrected dead Jesus out of the grave ( Acts 2:27) then Jesus was given the Power of the Resurrection
Matthew 16:16 answers the ^ above ^ question:
KJV Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
John 6:69 agrees
Right, No one who died before Jesus ( Acts 2:34; John 3:13) went to heaven (called to heaven) but ' saved ' via a future resurrection on Earth - Acts 24:15.
Yes, Psalms 2 is about Jesus ( who had a heavenly resurrection ) but David will have an earthly resurrection.
Only people like those of Luke 22:28-30; Daniel 7:18) are called to heavenly life, they have that first or earlier resurrection of Revelation 20:6; 5:9-10;2:10.
Mitty
Active Member
Where does the bible say that Jesus wanted to be executed by the Romans for sedition and falsely claiming to be the "King of the Jews"?
Mitty
Active Member
Where does the bible say that Noah & Moses & Abraham & David etc repented and believed in Jesus and were saved?
Nonsense. Psalm 2:6-7 is clearly about David, given that it is written in the first person and in the past and present tense, and is not written in the third person and the future tense. Or are you claiming that Jesus wrote Psalm 2:6-7 and/or was a contemporary of David?
Mitty
Active Member
In other words biblical morality, including the ten commandments etc, is just man-made since it wasn't morally wrong for Abraham to kill his son as a blood sacrifice, or for Cain(an) to kill his brother Abel, or for Noah's father to kill a young man (Gen 4). Nor was it morally wrong for Abraham to have a sexual relationship with his sister Sarah and commit adultery with Hagar, nor for Lot to sexually assault his daughters after he tried to pimp them and mocked their future husbands for wanting to know what two strangers were up to in Lot's house.