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(Poll) Alternate Death Systems

Which would you prefer?

  • Total voters
    32
Trailblazer

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
Samantha Rinne said:
Currently, there are only about four systems of what happens after you die:

No Afterlife: You die, your body rots. There's no such thing as soul
Rebirth: Usually Buddhist, your body rots and souls are destroyed. However, the self is like a candle able to be passed to a new vessel (which usually winds up making the same stupid mistakes)
Reincarnation: The soul is immortal and transfers to a new body.
Afterlife: You go to... wherever, depending on the religion. People often think all religions are this category and all believe in Heaven and Hell, which reveals their extreme ignorance. The Norse for instance believe in Nine Worlds where things live, and some of these are part of an afterlife.

However, this is not the limit of all systems that can exist.
Resetting: Similar to how an RPG works. You repeat the "game" at the last "save point" until you get it right
Reiteration: People you know come in and out of your life through death but they get to "echo" as different people with similar features.
Recycling: You die, and your soul converts into energy. Your body, on the other hand converts into raw materials for new life.
Immortality: You, assuming you earn it, rise from the dead as a sort of invincible solid superghost. All lesser souls become petty ghosts until their goals are resolved, in which case, an afterlife or reincarnation occurs.
Other: There's probably other ideas.

For this exercise, don't tell me what you feel as part of your worldview, you "should" believe, but what type of system you'd prefer. This should get more varied answers than atheists all jumping on the bandwagon of no afterlife.

I chose other: I believe that after death, the soul does what the person believing wants (this includes people who want to punish themselves).
Click to expand...
I went with afterlife because I consider it the reality.
I have very mixed feelings about living forever, but reality is reality.
 
S

Straw Dog

Well-Known Member
I realize that this sounds like a cop out, but I no longer have a strong preference one way or the other. Like I never feel completely invested in this isolated identity anyway, such that I’m not desperate to extend this form indefinitely.

I don’t feel disconnected from the life that came before me or the life that will continue beyond me. The notion of an afterlife doesn’t actually resonate within this sphere of awareness. It’s difficult to communicate in words and yet fun to attempt the project. I’m okay just being a person.
 
Mock Turtle

Mock Turtle

Oh my, did I say that!
Premium Member
I can't really answer this poll (hence other) - not knowing anything about the consequences for some of these options - for us as individuals and for exisence. I feel that existence itself (of an individual) is hardly a good starting point, and especially where we almost certainly can't be learning/experiencing for ever, so what results? Might be rather tedious eventually. I think death is just that and we have to accept it so I would choose this option if I had any inkling as to what any of the others entails, but I don't, so I can't. Perfecting ourselves during some kind of cyclic gameshow might appeal to many but not to me.
 
Jedster

Jedster

Well-Known Member
Heyo said:
I will be gone long before the earth goes. We are only decades away from the ability for interstellar travel. And I don't climg to this body. I can imagine "going into silicone" one day.
Click to expand...

you mean like this:
“The Last Human: Doctor Who and Anxieties Over the Posthuman” @ In Media Res – ED(MOND)CHANG(ED)AGOGY

cassandra.png
 
Howard Is

Howard Is

Lucky Mud
Jedster said:
you mean like this:
Click to expand...

Or this ...

“The first ten million years were the worst, and the second ten million years, they were the worst too. The third ten million I didn't enjoy at all. After that I went into a bit of a decline."
- Marvin the paranoid android

Apparently, the best conversation he had was over 40 million years ago with a coffee machine.
 
Samantha Rinne

Samantha Rinne

Resident Genderfluid Writer/Artist
ideogenous_mover said:
I don't get what you mean by that , very confusing to me. What happens to you?



Made me think of a possible system where most of our ghosts possibly slowly dissipate. Perhaps they dissipate slower or faster depending on how good you were in life
Click to expand...

For the reiteration thing, I got the idea when my great uncle died. I saw this other guy trying to cheer my great aunt up who was this uncle's cousin (or something) who we'd never met. And I got to thinking, "what if parts of the original person live on in another person?" I'm not gonna say this is so ( cuz someone just flashed a rule 8 reminder), but this is how it would work if it were. Someone dies, and you meet a different person, maybe even a different gender who is similar in one or more traits but different in others. That is, no reincarnation happened, yet they echo the original person.

I'm surprised none of the atheists went with recycling. It's kinda cool.
 
Stanyon

Stanyon

WWMRD?
Altfish said:
Not at all, put me in touch with someone who has died and I'll take you seriously.
Click to expand...

I'm not saying there is or isn't an afterlife, I'm saying we don't know because none of us are dead, there is nothing to prove or disprove. I see a lot of similarities in those who believe there is an afterlife vs. those who say there is nothing after death, both seem to be trying to make sense of the world and in their fear and arrogance they seem to believe that somehow they have it all figured out within the limitations of their monkey brains. It seems to be a need for order and being able to categorize and box things up stored in the file cabinets of the mind.
 
Altfish

Altfish

Veteran Member
Stanyon said:
I'm not saying there is or isn't an afterlife, I'm saying we don't know because none of us are dead, there is nothing to prove or disprove. I see a lot of similarities in those who believe there is an afterlife vs. those who say there is nothing after death, both seem to be trying to make sense of the world and in their fear and arrogance they seem to believe that somehow they have it all figured out within the limitations of their monkey brains. It seems to be a need for order and being able to categorize and box things up stored in the file cabinets of the mind.
Click to expand...
There is no evidence of an afterlife; therefore until proven otherwise I'll assume there isn't one.
 
Stanyon

Stanyon

WWMRD?
Altfish said:
There is no evidence of an afterlife; therefore until proven otherwise I'll assume there isn't one.
Click to expand...

You can assume all you want but it doesn't change the fact that that none of us truly know. You claimed the reality was that there wasn't bit it is only your uninformed opinion nothing more no different than those that create fantasies around an imagined afterlife. I imagine if there is an afterlife it will be far beyond any of our comprehensions or capabilities to describe it in this life, if there is nothing then there you go, It's o.k. to let go.
 
Altfish

Altfish

Veteran Member
Stanyon said:
You can assume all you want but it doesn't change the fact that that none of us truly know. You claimed the reality was that there wasn't, it is your uninformed opinion nothing more, no different than those that create fantasies around an afterlife. I imagine if there is an afterlife it will be far beyond any of our comprehensions or capabilities to describe it in this life, if there is nothing then there you go, It's o.k. to let go.
Click to expand...
I've never seen a unicorn; neither has anyone else. It is a reasonable assumption then to believe that they do not exist.
I've never seen Australia, but people I trust have been there; they beat us at cricket, Nick Cavee and Kylie say it exists; I assume Australia exists.

The afterlife falls into the first category.
 
Stanyon

Stanyon

WWMRD?
Altfish said:
The afterlife falls into the first category.
Click to expand...

Actually it doesn't, if there was one you could see it in your physical life and you haven't seen one. You aren't dead so you have no way to say there is or isn't an afterlife. I'm o.k. with not knowing nor would I presume to know a thing I can't, as I said before it's o.k. to admit you don't know a reality that you have never seen.
 
W

whirlingmerc

Well-Known Member
Samantha Rinne said:
Currently, there are only about four systems of what happens after you die:

No Afterlife: You die, your body rots. There's no such thing as soul
Rebirth: Usually Buddhist, your body rots and souls are destroyed. However, the self is like a candle able to be passed to a new vessel (which usually winds up making the same stupid mistakes)
Reincarnation: The soul is immortal and transfers to a new body.
Afterlife: You go to... wherever, depending on the religion. People often think all religions are this category and all believe in Heaven and Hell, which reveals their extreme ignorance. The Norse for instance believe in Nine Worlds where things live, and some of these are part of an afterlife.

However, this is not the limit of all systems that can exist.
Resetting: Similar to how an RPG works. You repeat the "game" at the last "save point" until you get it right
Reiteration: People you know come in and out of your life through death but they get to "echo" as different people with similar features.
Recycling: You die, and your soul converts into energy. Your body, on the other hand converts into raw materials for new life.
Immortality: You, assuming you earn it, rise from the dead as a sort of invincible solid superghost. All lesser souls become petty ghosts until their goals are resolved, in which case, an afterlife or reincarnation occurs.
Other: There's probably other ideas.

For this exercise, don't tell me what you feel as part of your worldview, you "should" believe, but what type of system you'd prefer. This should get more varied answers than atheists all jumping on the bandwagon of no afterlife.

I chose other: I believe that after death, the soul does what the person believing wants (this includes people who want to punish themselves).
Click to expand...

These views left of RESURRECTION!

My view:
A temporary spiritual existence after death awaiting judgement
where those awaiting Redemption go to 'Abraham's bosom' a place of waiting and those awaiting Judgement to a temporary place of judgement (see parable of Lazarus and the rich man).

After the cross those waiting for Redemption go to be with God
(see Peter's epistle where between the cross and his resurrection Jesus went and preached to spirits in prison making an announcement)

There is a final eternal resurrection and those awaiting judgement go to the lake of fire and those resurrected to life to be with God and live in a near world without sin sorrow or pain (see closing chapters of Revelation).
 
S

shivsomashekhar

Well-Known Member
Long ago, in India, there was a model of life where everything was seen as the activity of the mind, including time and space. Things exist only when you think of them. All thoughts are predicated on the thinker's existence. Therefore, the thinker was not a point in time, but time was a mental inference of this thinker - as was everything else. Paradoxically, this thinker is only inferred through thought.

As the thinker has to exist, there is no pre-birth/birth or death/post-death. That is, as everything is thought (including a period before birth and after death), these thoughts need the thinker in place. Hence, they are not possible.

To sum it up -

1. Everything is thought. This includes time and space
2. Thought requires a thinker
3. Pre-birth is imagined. Cannot be an actuality as there is no thinker before birth
4. Post-death is imagined. Cannot be an actuality as there is no thinker after death

It follows that there is no birth and death. This thinking led to the formation of the Vijnana-vada or chitta-matra (mind only) school of Buddhism and eventually Ajativada (no birth, no death). Later, it also led to the creation of another view-point named eka-jiva vada (Single entity doctrine).

To put it differently, I cannot witness my own death. Conversely, if I am witnessing anything at all, I am not dead. Non-existence is not possible because I cannot be a witness to my non-existence.This belongs in 'other'. The difference is, all the other options are based on time and this is not. Here, we have a viewpoint where the relationship between time and existence is reversed.
 
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S

shivsomashekhar

Well-Known Member
Stanyon said:
You can assume all you want but it doesn't change the fact that that none of us truly know. You claimed the reality was that there wasn't bit it is only your uninformed opinion nothing more no different than those that create fantasies around an imagined afterlife. I imagine if there is an afterlife it will be far beyond any of our comprehensions or capabilities to describe it in this life, if there is nothing then there you go, It's o.k. to let go.
Click to expand...

What is your take on the reality of Santa Claus?

Because, the reasoning behind your choice here will be the exact same as your choice for the reality of after-life.

I can logically assume that Tokyo exists based on second hand data and the absence of red flags. I cannot assume the existence of Narnia because I saw it in a movie.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. And such evidence is missing in the case of Narnia and the various religious theories of after-life. These theories are offered up with the expectation that you accept them on faith and not on evidence.
 
Trailblazer

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
Altfish said:
Not at all, put me in touch with someone who has died and I'll take you seriously.
Click to expand...
Since nobody ever dies and comes back to life, you will have to settle for accounts from those who have died and stayed dead, accounts that come through those who can communicate with departed spirits.
 
Altfish

Altfish

Veteran Member
Trailblazer said:
Since nobody ever dies and comes back to life, you will have to settle for accounts from those who have died and stayed dead, accounts that come through those who can communicate with departed spirits.
Click to expand...
Hmmm, I'm very skeptical of people who claim they can talk to the dead. If the dead would like to talk directly to me, that's fine; but through an intermediary is not fine.
 
Trailblazer

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
Altfish said:
Hmmm, I'm very skeptical of people who claim they can talk to the dead. If the dead would like to talk directly to me, that's fine; but through an intermediary is not fine.
Click to expand...
Then you need to become an intermediary and then you will hear from them directly. :D
I prefer to have someone else do it for me because I do not have the time to learn that skill.
 
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