I am sure they will come up with more excuses.
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Excuses, excuses
- Thread starter JJ50
- Start date
I am sure they will come up with more excuses.
Good question. Assuming for a moment that there is a supreme being called "God," then either He really is as evil as depicted in the book. Or maybe He is actually good and the book itself is a pack of lies.
So, I guess one could still continue to be a believer while throwing out the book.
I've spoken to some believers who might not believe everything in the book literally. They might say (in regards to some of the atrocities attributed to God) "I can't believe in a God that would do that, so my God is not like that."
So, apparently, one can believe in any version of God one wishes, tailored to fit within a certain set of values and principles. It's all very convenient, and since the whole idea is pretty much a product of human imagination, God can be whatever anyone wants Him to be.
I agree.
BilliardsBall
Veteran Member
Thank you, I will no longer make excuses for the disgusting love of Jesus Christ, exemplified on the cross, when, despising the shame, He was beaten, scourged, stripped naked, and crucified, for the sin of all mankind including the OP's comments...
I APOLOGIZE for making excuses for God rescuing Noah, Lot, Israel, Christians, etc. from the incredible amount of sin in our lives and hearts.
SORRY!
Of course, one can't help noticing that the Bible itself makes the God it depicts seem very much like us, at least emotionally.
A Vestigial Mote
Well-Known Member
Isn't it at least a little arrogant? Do you go around telling your wife, your children, your parents, or your friends that "YOU MUST LOVE ME."? Do you do that? No? Why not? Isn't that what a "perfect" being does? Well? By your estimation - isn't it?
A Vestigial Mote
Well-Known Member
Finally! Geez. It only took how many times trying to convince you?
Way to go man. I'm proud of you. No really, congratulations. We should celebrate somehow.
metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
I do believe this largely depends on how one deals with one's approach to the Bible. To the literalists [mostly fundamentalist Protestants and JW's], what you say above very much is a problem. But to those of us who are not literalists and, therefore, who do not accept the concept of scriptural inerrancy, we see the scriptures as not being somehow written word-for-word by God and, therefore, at least somewhat errant. How much and in which areas is it errant is always up for debate with us.
IMO, religion is generally an honest attempt to try and understand how we got here and what we are to do morally. The rule of thumb I use is that if a narrative defies reason, I'll go with reason and then look for other interpretations that seem reasonable. If that doesn't seen to lead to any logical rationale, then I'll just go with reason.
TagliatelliMonster
Veteran Member
Then it seems to me that in that case, your bible is completely useless and you can just ignore it and just stick to reason instead.
Think about it... what you said is this:
- If bible says X and reason says Y, you'll go with Y
- If bible says X and reason says X, you'll with X
Then why bother with the bible at all? Clearly it doesn't matter, since you'll go with reason anyway, no matter what the bible says.
metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
Right near me right now is my "Oxford Desk Dictionary", and I do use it, but I don't consider it to be inerrant or even "divinely inspired". IOW, I don't expect perfection but, instead, a sense of direction, and that's been provided for me from multiple sources, with religion being one of them.
Even if there were to be no deity whatsoever, and maybe there's not for all I know, contemplating what's moral and what's not is important to me. And most of my guidance along this line has come from what my religious affiliations and what their followers have taught me as some of them so often have served as examples of just how important living a life of compassion really is.
But that journey is personal, thus I don't try to convert anyone to Catholicism nor Christianity as a whole. I have far more in common with secular humanists who also try and live out of compassion for all rather than some fellow Catholics who are more self-centered than other-centered. However, not out of any false modesty, I do have my faults-- just ask my wife. On second thought, don't ask her.
We've been married for 52 years, and I'm still a "work in process" according to her.Anyhow, for better or worse, that's my approach.
Audie
Veteran Member
Seeing as how man's way seems to be steering away from practices like slavery and persecution of homosexuals, while god's way is fine with both, I'ld say that clearly man's way is morally and ethically superior.
Well, isn't that just "perfectly just, benevolent and loving" and not petty at all!
"God" in bold, above being of course the shorthand way
of saying "the god invented by the people of the time, to
reflect the values of the time.
Audie
Veteran Member
I have seen it done.
Audie
Veteran Member
Finally! Geez. It only took how many times trying to convince you?
Way to go man. I'm proud of you. No really, congratulations. We should celebrate somehow.
snark mingling with snark might burn on and on
Bob the Unbeliever
Well-Known Member
I have oft pointed out (elsewhere than here) that the very existence of the bible itself, is pretty darn effective proof that there cannot exist a god wherein any of this matters.
That is, if there is a god, it's principle trait must be, it's entirely indifferent as to the fate of humanity, let alone any of it's individuals.
The proof, is the bible itself, of course: Within that book, we see countless examples wherein it's god (as described) does horrific things to individuals and to whole peoples too.
For the most trivial of things: the "wrong" sort of person touches the Magic Ark, and? *BOOM* dead right there.
A group of smart-azz kids laughing at a bald "god-man"? *BOOM* dead right there.
And so on... the bible's god (as described) seems to kill on a whim.
Such a monster would never have permitted the airplane to be invented: Look at the tower of Babel. Let alone rockets and satellites.
No, the fact the bible does exist? And that it paints such a horrific picture of "god"?
Proves that if there is a god, it is entirely indifferent--- the exact same consequence as not existing in the first place.
That is, if there is a god, it's principle trait must be, it's entirely indifferent as to the fate of humanity, let alone any of it's individuals.
The proof, is the bible itself, of course: Within that book, we see countless examples wherein it's god (as described) does horrific things to individuals and to whole peoples too.
For the most trivial of things: the "wrong" sort of person touches the Magic Ark, and? *BOOM* dead right there.
A group of smart-azz kids laughing at a bald "god-man"? *BOOM* dead right there.
And so on... the bible's god (as described) seems to kill on a whim.
Such a monster would never have permitted the airplane to be invented: Look at the tower of Babel. Let alone rockets and satellites.
No, the fact the bible does exist? And that it paints such a horrific picture of "god"?
Proves that if there is a god, it is entirely indifferent--- the exact same consequence as not existing in the first place.
A Vestigial Mote
Well-Known Member
Oh, believe me... I can only hope that is exactly where this is going.
Because they think that if you give life, then automatically that gives you the right to take it back when you want.
I am not sure where that twisted logic comes from, but nevertheless...here we go.
Ciao
- viole
sealchan
Well-Known Member
Because they are afraid to acknowledge that God's creation has much in it to complain about, to suffer from and to fear that cannot be traced back to the actions of humanity. Nature is a force that is at best amoral and God is ultimately responsible for Nature. To imagine that God should expect a certain level of morality from us individually and not be held accountable for the "evil" inherent in His creation is too incongruous to accept.
This sort of God reality was addressed in a big way in the New Testament in creating an intermediary, Jesus, that suffered as a human but was also understood to be or be of God. In many ways, the human incarnation of a God is an effort in the mythic imagination of a people to understand why one should act morally in an amoral reality. This natural desire of humanity to be moral when all the rest of creation (or the Cosmos) seems not to be particularly interested in that human morality, is a mystery and requires a response in our individual psychologies whether we are believers or non-believers. It is a universal psychological paradox. The Bible, through its literary and historical development, attempts one answer. Those who read the Bible and those who preach the Bible do not necessarily fully understand the underlying psychological reason for why the authors of the Bible told the stories and describe the God that the Bible tells and describes.
sealchan
Well-Known Member
It is a close cousin of the logic that says, "if gravity is a physical law of the Universe, you would do well to obey it and not ignore it."
There is very little that is historical in the Bible, and also very little that is credible.
So, do you believe it is morally right to take life if you have given it?
Ciao
- viole