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If it could be proved no god exists
- Thread starter JJ50
- Start date
The evidence is already on the table to show that the only place gods exist is as concepts, things imagined, in individual brains.
Obviously God neither says nor does, and the world behaves exactly as if gods existed only in individual human mentation.
But the big one for me is the total absence of a definition of God appropriate to a real god, one with objective existence, such that we could determine whether any real being or thing or phenomenon were God or not.
There isn't even a meaningful definition of 'godness', the quality that a real god would have and a real superscientist would lack. (Who'd want to worship a superscientist? It's magic, the changing of reality just by wishing, that we seem to yearn for.)
But why would a believer want to be bothered with concerns like that? I'm not the first person to suspect that the origins of religion lie in our evolutionary past, and may be associated with tribal coherence (as well as being involved with luck, thunder, dreams of people who've died &c). In other words, it's not impossible that there have been long parts of human history where there were concrete benefits in belief and not in unbelief.
I believe in God and have a relationship with that was well.
You're very distrustful of yourself. If you believe you would be divorced if not for God, then I would ask why you feel you would need to be divorced. There can be multiple reasons for this, and they would be things that would be worth looking at head on, rather than saying "it's not God's will" and avoiding looking at that.
I think my point is that God is not nearly as worried about these things as we are. It's better to face what is within us more honestly, than trying to mask all of that by speaking of "God's will", and all that. That's a lofty excuse, but at the end of the day, it's only the truth within us we have to face.
Varied, although of course it could be catastrophic for multitudes of those.
That said, don't overestimate the significance of god-concepts. I suspect that there are quite a few apatheists and ignostics out there that do not even realize that they are such, and are only theists out of habit. And I also suspect that many an occultist is actually fully aware that they literally create their own gods.
In a very significant sense, Christians and Muslims are in fact odd eccentricities when it comes to God.
As a matter of fact, making the world better off for that very reason is an early, necessary stage of your exercise - although @9-10ths_Penguin is quite correct in stating that it is logically impossible to disprove "all gods".
I for one do not.
It is not even a coincidence really. It falls far short.
But Audie, "god" has never been anything _but_ a name. That is the whole reason for its being. Because it has no meaning and no purpose it is a convenient recipient for any that one might have a need to shape and protect from reason.
We should not judge theists by those representatives, though.
Bingo.
But that is the point. "God" as an idea persists and reaches such heightened levels of influence only because it is so superbly suitable for semi-intentional misunderstanding, mishandling and wild merging of what are clearly divergent conceptions of its meaning.
As you well point out, it is too incoherent an idea to manage to even be wrong or false. Too dysfunctional to be simply useless. It is a superb distraction, but a lousy subject for rational analysis.
Unfortunately, there is quite a lot of potential harm as well. Many a person has bet too much on that notion.I suspect that they would just carry on with life as most of us non-religious do - having to work out all the moral issues for ourselves and deal with all the insecurities we necessarily have about life and all that - assuming they accepted the origins of their belief being what it was. Plus there would be the benefits of not having so many different religious beliefs to separate us - so - HOORAY - can't wait for it to happen.
As if!
Even so, it would probably be very much worth it in the end.
PruePhillip
Well-Known Member
You would have to wonder how, in the bible's case, that these
mere mortals had such prescience in their prophecies. Their
grasp of the fall of Christianity, the return of the Jews to their
homeland and the relevance of Israel to the world's peace is
quite impressive.
The sequence of events for the creation too is quite impressive
God creates the heaven
and the earth
and upon the earth the skies clear
the continents rise
life emerges on land
and then life emerges from the seas
and finally man.
Some clever people back then.
People with overactive imaginations, imo
PruePhillip
Well-Known Member
INCREDIBLE imaginations.
It was only 120 years ago when "scholars" were mocking the idea that
the Jews could go back to their ancient homeland - now belonging to
the Muslims and under Turkish rule.
A bit like people saying they are "Babylonian" and returning to Iraq
during the days of Saddam Hussein and retaking their ancient home
land and resurrecting their ancient language.
That would be incredible just for the fact there were "Babylonians"
still around, given that most cultures don't survive more than give
generations after they are removed from their nation.
But it was in the bible. Back when Jacob was in Egypt he spoke of
the ancient Hebrews as one day having their own nation and king,
but would lose it when the Messiah came - it would be the Gentiles
who would believe in the Messiah.
And for nearly 2,000 years the Jews smashed glasses and cried
"Next year in Jerusalem" because the bible said they would return
a second time (when they hadn't left the first time) and take back
their country with the sword.
Incredible imagination? Or are we dealing with closed minds?
Spartan
Well-Known Member
Dream on. The unrepentant Sodomite crowd is hoping that the God of the Bible doesn't exist and they create these fairy tale "what if" scenarios to try to cover their butts. But it won't work. God is not mocked.
PruePhillip
Well-Known Member
What "evidence" ?
The Jews had no business creating the state of Israel and should not have been permitted to do so, the Arabs had as much right to live in the old state of Palestine as the Jews. It is no wonder there has been so much strife in the region since then, with faults on both sides. The idiot in the White House has made the dangerous situation worse by supporting Israel.
PruePhillip
Well-Known Member
The Jews had no business creating the state of Israel and should not have been permitted to do so, the Arabs had as much right to live in the old state of Palestine as the Jews. It is no wonder there has been so much strife in the region since then, with faults on both sides. The idiot in the White House has made the dangerous situation worse by supporting Israel.
Given the long and sad story of the Jewish experiences in host countries,
where do YOU think they should go?
Jews don't seem to have done too badly in many host countries. Of course the Holocaust was a terrible crime, and should never be forgotten or forgiven, however the Zionists haven't covered themselves in glory either.
Samantha Rinne
Resident Genderfluid Writer/Artist
You cannot prove something is NOT present anywhere in the universe, at all times, visible or invisible or in other dimensions, and never was there. To be able to see all of that, even with technology assistance is to be omniscient. And outside time, because you'd have to prove not only that God is not here now but that God never was.
Immediately, someone would tell you to look in the mirror, because you've just asserted yourself able to see beyond time, immortal, and all-knowing. You must be God then to know for certain God cannot be out there.
In philosophy class, we discussed the difficulties of proving that something does not exist and never did. "Unicorns don't exist," you say. Then I show you what is now considered a narwhal horn. And I show you many sketches and pictures and legends of unicorns. Obviously , I say, this came from somewhere. And how dio we know people aren't channeling parallel universes.
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I wouldn't say distrustful. I just know what I would have done. We were heading in the direction of divorce until Jesus came in our lives and in 24 hours it was turned around.
Remember, the question was asked "What if we knew there was no God".
OK. But we are changing the subject matter here.
But IMV, God is not worried but rather has deep concern for us and is constantly trying to help us. At the least, knowing God's will helps us in direction. A true north, so to speak.
But, yes, we must face the truth. For us, Jesus is the truth and the way leading to life. And he lives inside me.