Catholics Walk Out of Sermon After Priest Urges Forgiveness for Sexual Predators

The Reverend Bob said:

If Gandhi said that then he is a diaper wearing plagiarist

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You do know that Gandhi studied the Sermon on the Mount and put it to use as never before in history.

David1967 said:

I don't think Jesus had anything like the Catholic Church period in mind.

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Why not as he saw much the same with his apostles? At no point in history, from Jesus' time until today with all the various denominations, was there not a problem with some people within any congregation. It's always important to not blame the majority for what a small minority did. It would be like me taking some things you did bad in your past and just use those to condemn you and all you stand for.

The Church, and all other human organizations, have people within them that simply don't play by the rules. Therefore, the best we can do is to police our own organizations, admit our culpability, and try and do much better, and the Church is doing just that as we hear about it literally every Sunday at our Catholic church in terms of reporting any kind of suspicious behavior, whether that be by clergy or lay.

metis said:

Why not as he saw much the same with his apostles? At no point in history, from Jesus' time until today with all the various denominations, was there not a problem with some people within any congregation. It's always important to not blame the majority for what a small minority did. It would be like me taking some things you did bad in your past and just use those to condemn you and all you stand for.

The Church, and all other human organizations, have people within them that simply don't play by the rules. Therefore, the best we can do is to police our own organizations, admit our culpability, and try and do much better, and the Church is doing just that as we hear about it literally every Sunday at our Catholic church in terms of reporting any kind of suspicious behavior, whether that be by clergy or lay.

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I see nothing wrong with walking out on a birdbrained cleric. Its not like the congregants are hostages.

PS I have nothing against Catholicism. My middle son converted with our blessings.

sooda said:

I see nothing wrong with walking out on a birdbrained cleric. Its not like the congregants are hostages.

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Ditto, as there's a good chance I might have walked out as well.

sooda said:

PS I have nothing against Catholicism. My middle son converted with our blessings.

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Well, then at least one person has sense in your family!

[just kidding, and enjoy the rest of the weekend]

metis said:

Ditto, as there's a good chance I might have walked out as well.

Well, then at least one person has sense in your family!

[just kidding, and enjoy the rest of the weekend]

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Thanks.. You may be right about my middle son.

sooda said:

You do know that Gandhi studied the Sermon on the Mount and put it to use as never before in history.

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As much as I love Mother Church...

Gandhi was far more representative of the Teachings of Jesus Christ than the RCC has managed over the centuries.
Tom

columbus said:

As much as I love Mother Church...

Gandhi was far more representative of the Teachings of Jesus Christ than the RCC has managed over the centuries.
Tom

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Ouch.. Yes.. He grasped shaming your enemy and non violent liberation. MLK also studied the Sermon on the Mount.

columbus said:

Gandhi was far more representative of the Teachings of Jesus Christ than the RCC has managed over the centuries.

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I have long considered Gandhi to be my #1 mentor over the last four decades, but let me just say that he wasn't exactly "perfect" either. However, he admitted as such and kept trying to do better. As a lawyer in South Africa, for example, he was actually quite racist.

I think life is a process, whereas we all should try to do better, imo, and the same should apply to the Church as well. There has been significant improvement, but the battle is not yet anywhere near being finished.

Skwim said:

If someone doesn't deserve to be forgiven, they're unworthy, then why forgive them?

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If we're unwilling to forgive others, why should we expect forgiveness from others or from God? Many of Christ's parables and teachings speak of this.

I assume then that forgiveness doesn't come with any grace period, like you can wait two years to forgive X for doing Y. But, in fact, one is expected to forgive immediately. God expects you to forgive the rapist and killer of your four year-old daughter immediately.

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We may not be able to forgive right away. But we are urged to forgive as soon as we can. Again, this doesn't mean letting them off the hook with no consequences. It doesn't mean that we trust them. It does mean, however, that we allow them to find both justice and mercy.

Good for them!
It isn't up to the congregants to forgive pedophile predators in clerical garb.
There's no excuse for those predators to still be in the church that has covered their back for centuries knowing their evil. "Treatment centers" sponsored by the church are ridiculous. Then that pedophile cleric is transferred to a new parish with the congregants none the wiser. And the predator has a fresh church full of new potential victims.
Or, the pedophile flee's with the help of the church to Mexico and serves there. Same scenario. Predator and fresh victims.
They should all go to prison. Every last one. The church shouldn't be able to shield these predators. Take away their tax exemption in the U.S on the grounds the church harbors pedophile criminals and obstructs justice. Watch what happens then.

Skwim said:

Zurkuhlen was trying to make the case that no one is purely evil and that the pedophiles were also “good clerics in their communities,”

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Good for the Catholic parishioners who stood up to this priest. Zurkuhlen was trying to make the case that no one is purely evil and that the pedophiles were also “good clerics in their communities,” says it all. To act as if they are good people instead of those who committed evil acts, says everything about his viewpoint. They may have some good in them but there must be justice for their evil ways and they must be stopped from committing further evil. In the past, the Catholic Church performed exorcisms on those with evil spirits in them. What is the difference between that and this? I would say that it is the belief by Catholic Church that The Sacrament of the Holy Orders, which means that the Holy Spirit confers holy powers on priests and comes only from Jesus is passed on to each generation of priests, but this should be null and void as a consequence of evil behavior. There is something definitely wrong when some members of the Catholic Church don't have this viewpoint such as Father Zurkuhlen. Jesus would want to cast out the evil spirits in these pedophile priests not commend them as “good clerics in their communities”. This leads me to the conclusion that there are evil forces within portions of the Catholic Church which need to dealt with and as long as they are not dealt with, the Church will continue to have evil activities happen within it.

Shiranui117 said:

If we're unwilling to forgive others, why should we expect forgiveness from others or from God? Many of Christ's parables and teachings speak of this.

We may not be able to forgive right away. But we are urged to forgive as soon as we can. Again, this doesn't mean letting them off the hook with no consequences. It doesn't mean that we trust them. It does mean, however, that we allow them to find both justice and mercy.

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Forgiveness in the heart is different than not stopping evil from continuing when it is found. Moving priests from parish to parish without even warning parishioners of the dangers to their children so that they could be protected is evil. First, the sword must be taken up. Then, later can come forgiveness.

Shiranui117 said:

If we're unwilling to forgive others, why should we expect forgiveness from others or from God? Many of Christ's parables and teachings speak of this.

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I don't expect forgiveness from most others, particularly strangers. As for god, he creates evil and punishes the innocent


so why would I expect him to forgive anyone, just because others have said he will? Hardly.


.

Diana Montgomery said:

Forgiveness in the heart is different than not stopping evil from continuing when it is found. Moving priests from parish to parish without even warning parishioners of the dangers to their children so that they could be protected is evil.

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Literally everyone agrees with this. I don't know how any of what I said stands in contradiction to these obvious facts. The Catholic Church will reap what it sows. It has sown coverups and corruption, and it will reap millions of faithful becoming disillusioned and losing trust and leaving--which is already happening. And hopefully all of these priests and bishops are found out and face justice for what they have done.

Skwim said:

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"Around 70 Catholics walked out of a service after retired priest Ulrich Zurkuhlen urged everyone to practice forgiveness… for predator priests who had been found guilty of molesting children.

Zurkuhlen was trying to make the case that no one is purely evil and that the pedophiles were also “good clerics in their communities,” but the Church members, some of whom were reportedly victims of sexual abuse, weren’t having it.

Several parishioners reportedly interrupted the 79-year-old Zurkuhlen and tried to argue with him. A worshipper told Kirche-und-Leben that the situation became chaotic and the priest was not able to finish the sermon.

When asked about the reaction his sermon caused among worshippers, Zurkuhlen said that it was “a real shock.” He lamented that he was unable to get his point across, especially the biblically important meaning of forgiveness, to what he called “the screaming mob.”

​

Ah, yes. That’s a good idea. Insult the people making a good point while doubling down on your bad one.

The problem isn’t his claim that bad people have their good moments. It’s that the Catholic Church’s leaders have a long history of defending predator priests and ignoring abuse victims until they’re forced to do so. Even now, Zurkuhlen seems more interested in finding a silver lining in sexual abuse than seeking justice for victims of the Catholic Church.

For now, the church has invited congregation members — whoever’s left, anyway — to have a conversation about the sermon on Monday. There’s no indication that Zurkuhlen will apologize or that he believes he has anything to apologize about."
source​

So, whether you're a Catholic or not, do you feel pedophile priests deserve forgiveness from the Catholic laity?

Why?

Why not?

.​

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Forgiveness is typically highlighted as part of Christian theology so for the members to remain consistent (hah) with their belief they should be offering it freely. Deserved is not even part of this.

Shad said:

Forgiveness is typically highlighted as part of Christian theology so for the members to remain consistent (hah) with their belief they should be offering it freely. Deserved is not even part of this.

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So you're of the opinion that because Catholic theology says one should forgive, then that's what Catholics should do to their sexually abusive clergy . Thing is, I believe Catholic theology also says one should be sexually moral, yet because of all the sexual improprieties that go on behind the walls of the Catholic Church it's folly to expect the Catholic clergy to be so. So I, for one, expect Catholic priests, bishops, and whatever other parts of the Catholic clergy there may be, to continue to sexually abuse others, AND cover it up. And because they obviously see no injustice in sexually abusing others I see no reason to forgive them for it.

"If you feel it's quite alright to have Zipper Dinner with grade school boys then I feel it's equally right to not forgive you for it."

.

sooda said:

You don't believe people who quit the Jehovah's Witnesses?

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Not usually.

sooda said:

Do you believe in Scientology?

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No.

sooda said:

Do you believe Jesus has been ruling in heaven since 1914?

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Yes, according to my understanding of Bible prophecy supported by world events since 1914.

Revoltingest said:

Christians are supposed to be forgiving.
This doesn't mean they approve of the wrongdoing
or that the offenders shouldn't be punished.

Btw, I'm not a Christian, & I'm not into forgiveness.

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Skwim said:

So you're of the opinion that because Catholic theology says one should forgive, then that's what Catholics should do to their sexually abusive clergy .

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To remain consistent with their belief system. Yes. However I acknowledge that most Catholics are not serious followers of their own religion. This does not mean the individual remains in their position nor never faces criminal charges

Thing is, I believe Catholic theology also says one should be sexually moral, yet because of all the sexual improprieties that go on behind the walls of the Catholic Church it's folly to expect the Catholic clergy to be so. So I, for one, expect Catholic priests, bishops, and whatever other parts of the Catholic clergy there may be, to continue to sexually abuse others, AND cover it up. And because they obviously see no injustice in sexually abusing others I see no reason to forgive them for it.

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Sure. This does not override the forgiveness theology.

Skwim said:

.

"Around 70 Catholics walked out of a service after retired priest Ulrich Zurkuhlen urged everyone to practice forgiveness… for predator priests who had been found guilty of molesting children.

Zurkuhlen was trying to make the case that no one is purely evil and that the pedophiles were also “good clerics in their communities,” but the Church members, some of whom were reportedly victims of sexual abuse, weren’t having it.

Several parishioners reportedly interrupted the 79-year-old Zurkuhlen and tried to argue with him. A worshipper told Kirche-und-Leben that the situation became chaotic and the priest was not able to finish the sermon.

When asked about the reaction his sermon caused among worshippers, Zurkuhlen said that it was “a real shock.” He lamented that he was unable to get his point across, especially the biblically important meaning of forgiveness, to what he called “the screaming mob.”

​

Ah, yes. That’s a good idea. Insult the people making a good point while doubling down on your bad one.

The problem isn’t his claim that bad people have their good moments. It’s that the Catholic Church’s leaders have a long history of defending predator priests and ignoring abuse victims until they’re forced to do so. Even now, Zurkuhlen seems more interested in finding a silver lining in sexual abuse than seeking justice for victims of the Catholic Church.

For now, the church has invited congregation members — whoever’s left, anyway — to have a conversation about the sermon on Monday. There’s no indication that Zurkuhlen will apologize or that he believes he has anything to apologize about."
source​

So, whether you're a Catholic or not, do you feel pedophile priests deserve forgiveness from the Catholic laity?

Why?

Why not?

.​

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Yet these HYPOCRITES enter the confessional begging forgiveness for their own sins. Shame.