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The Problem with New Age Syncretists i.e. the Spiritual but not Religious

Vinayaka

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
The Reverend Bob said:
Because basically we have a bunch of western navel-gazing hipster types taking parts of religions that they have no cultural ties to (such as Shintoism) and no real knowledge of and they will devour, digest and **** it back out and call the mess they made on the floor "Neo-Fascist-Shinto-Hindu-Judaism" and then try to teach member of the the religions that they mashed up and mutilated that somehow they came to the true understanding of that person's religion when all they have done is make a mess on the floor. It is disrespectful to the adherent of those religions and culture to do that. It is cultural appropriation and it is highly disrespectful.
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It's both funny and annoying when someone of that ilk starts telling me all about my faith. Mispronouncing words, condescending in tone, getting key concepts messed up, adding other religion's concepts like they were always there, and more. Generally I let it run though one ear and out the other, because when confronted with the ignorance, the most common reaction is defensive and wanting to argue. I'm at the point of 'Why bother?"
 
sayak83

sayak83

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
The Reverend Bob said:
I noticed that happening a lot to people of Dharmic tradition, some westerner will come into your DIR while you are discussing something significant to your culture and traditions and then proceeds to try to school as to what your own culture and tradition mean. I have seen the annoyance that arises when they presume they do.
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Actually, there are quite a few highly knowledgeable Westerners in the Hindu DIR. The level of ignorance about Hinduism among Indians should also not be under-estimated. But yes, I would consider New Age religions to be different from (even if loosely inspired by) the Asian religions.
 
Vinayaka

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
sayak83 said:
Actually, there are quite a few highly knowledgeable Westerners in the Hindu DIR. The level of ignorance about Hinduism among Indians should also not be under-estimated. But yes, I would consider New Age religions to be different from (even if loosely inspired by) the Asian religions.
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That also poses problems for some of us 'westerners'.

Quite recently a young Indian came up to me (I was sitting directly behind the moolasthanam doing a round of japa, (closest physical spot to the main murthi) and told me it was incorrect to sit on the tile, that you should always have a cushion. So he gave me a cushion. Don't know exactly where he'd gotten that idea, but the old stone temples of India, where hundreds of people sit every day certainly don't have cushions for everyone. I've seen mats, for hygiene sure. But cushions, first time I'd heard this presented as some kind of rule. The temple I attend regularly is all tile: no mats, no carpet, no chairs, and always spotless. Everyone sits on tile all the time.

Needless to say, I didn't use the cushion. So yes, Indians do make false assumptions about some westerners. We're not all 'new age'. Again, I didn't want to start some kind of argument.
 
David T

David T

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
The Reverend Bob said:
The Nicene Creed is more like Cut and Paste than mashing-up because the tenets of the creed come from within the Christian tradition...blah blah blah
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"i believe" is irelevant. After that its blah de blah what ever nonsense pops into someones head. The creed is idiotic at the first 2 words. Its kants point in his statement trancendental illusion. Its immature.
 
Fool

Fool

ALL in all
Premium Member
The Reverend Bob said:
Because basically we have a bunch of western navel-gazing hipster types taking parts of religions that they have no cultural ties to (such as Shintoism) and no real knowledge of and they will devour, digest and **** it back out and call the mess they made on the floor "Neo-Fascist-Shinto-Hindu-Judaism" and then try to teach member of the the religions that they mashed up and mutilated that somehow they came to the true understanding of that person's religion when all they have done is make a mess on the floor. It is disrespectful to the adherent of those religions and culture to do that. It is cultural appropriation and it is highly disrespectful.
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some folks believe jesus traveled to the east and was aware of eastern religions. not so surprising given the spice/silk road traveled through the area. after all, if you believe what the bible says, the magi knew he was coming and they came from the east.


Revelation 16:12
The sixth angel poured out his bowl on the great river Euphrates, and its water was dried up to prepare the way for the kings from the East.







 
Quintessence

Quintessence

Consults with Trees
Staff member
Premium Member
I've seen a fair number of critiques of contemporary syncretism and eclecticism. The more level-headed critiques recognize that the purpose or intention of syncretism is important. Inspiration flows from many wells, and it will flow where it may. It will not be stopped by any barriers humans try to set in its path. If someone takes inspiration from a source - any source - and builds that into their way of life beautifully and with reverence, that's a wondrous thing. This should be distinguished from those who take inspiration from a source and either weaponize it or spit upon it to make war. I haven't been plugged in to the New Age community in some years, but when I was, I didn't meet a single one who was following their flow of inspiration for destructive purposes. Those who take issue with the flow of inspiration across cultures need to make peace with the fact that these flows cannot be damed and that nobody really owns it. It has a life of its own, and why not let it flourish in its own way within the hearts and minds of others? Keep to your own traditions and let them build theirs. Educate and clarify the differences as needed. It's not simple, but life never is.
 
The Reverend Bob

The Reverend Bob

Fart Machine and Beastmaster
sayak83 said:
Actually, there are quite a few highly knowledgeable Westerners in the Hindu DIR. The level of ignorance about Hinduism among Indians should also not be under-estimated. But yes, I would consider New Age religions to be different from (even if loosely inspired by) the Asian religions.
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I know. A couple of them are in this thread and I respect them. But they are converts who are devoted and knowledgeable about their path and respectful of the culture from which it emerged not some New Age hippy who cuts bits and pieces of various religions and sews them together like some sort of Frankenstein's Monster as declare what they have sewed together to be the truth
 
Vinayaka

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
If you want a general understanding and discussion of new age, I'd recommend spiritualforums.com . I am a member there but usually hit argument if I post something, so rarely post anything.
 
sun rise

sun rise

The world is on fire
Premium Member
Quintessence said:
Those who take issue with the flow of inspiration across cultures need to make peace with the fact that these flows cannot be damed and that nobody really owns it. It has a life of its own, and why not let it flourish in its own way within the hearts and minds of others? Keep to your own traditions and let them build theirs.
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Yes. From a Rumi poem:
Let the beauty we love be what we do.
There are hundreds of ways to kneel and kiss the ground.
 
The Reverend Bob

The Reverend Bob

Fart Machine and Beastmaster
Quintessence said:
Educate and clarify the differences as needed. It's not simple, but life never is.
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I would, but many of the New Age do not respect the differences and intentionally misinterpret and twist the beliefs and traditions of the cultures and religions they appropriate from.
 
siti

siti

Well-Known Member
@The Reverend Bob - I am still trying to get over the irony of you complaining about "New Age Syncretists" misrepresenting religious ideas they have failed to properly understand whilst at the same time lumping them together as one with the "spiritual but not religious". It seems to me almost everyone's understanding of almost everything - including their own 'opinions' - is rather glib these days!
 
The Reverend Bob

The Reverend Bob

Fart Machine and Beastmaster
siti said:
@The Reverend Bob - I am still trying to get over the irony of you complaining about "New Age Syncretists" misrepresenting religious ideas they have failed to properly understand whilst at the same time lumping them together as one with the "spiritual but not religious". It seems to me almost everyone's understanding of almost everything - including their own 'opinions' - is rather glib these days!
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The real irony is that I am the exact opposite of the "Spiritual but not religious" since I am "Religious but not spiritual", I adhere to the Christian faith but I don't believe in God, which is probably the reason I have issues with them. Two polar opposites
 
Unguru

Unguru

I am a Sikh nice to meet you
The Reverend Bob said:
I noticed that happening a lot to people of Dharmic tradition, some westerner will come into your DIR while you are discussing something significant to your culture and traditions and then proceeds to try to school as to what your own culture and tradition mean. I have seen the annoyance that arises when they presume they do.
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Do you realize that the Dharmic religions themselves are the pinnacle of syncreticism, they have very little self-originated ideas. Buddhism and Hinduism are founded upon reimagining things over and over again.
Your argument seems to be a 'argument from racial bias' fallacy, applying it to India and their culture. India hasn't been the same as it once was for a very long time, India today is another India. Ancient India where frauds but still great thinkers in their appropriation of ideas, deities, symbols. It's just that you see Hinduism through modern-Hindu perspectives, instead of it's context in ancient India.
 
Guitar's Cry

Guitar's Cry

Disciple of Pan
Spiritual practices rise from the particular needs and environments of both the individual and the culture they grow up in. Many in our postmodern world have no real defined spiritual basis, and where there is one, it is surrounded by the sweeping vistas of world culture granted us by our communication technologies. With little to no spiritual basis, the postmodern human has to seek spiritual inspiration from the puzzle pieces given to us by all of humanity.

And it is all from the human mind, cut from different times and environments.

It is one thing to take a piece of another's culture and hawk it for profit. It is another to find purpose and meaning in that symbol and adapt it to your own life.
 
sojourner

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
Guitar's Cry said:
Spiritual practices rise from the particular needs and environments of both the individual and the culture they grow up in. Many in our postmodern world have no real defined spiritual basis, and where there is one, it is surrounded by the sweeping vistas of world culture granted us by our communication technologies. With little to no spiritual basis, the postmodern human has to seek spiritual inspiration from the puzzle pieces given to us by all of humanity.

And it is all from the human mind, cut from different times and environments.

It is one thing to take a piece of another's culture and hawk it for profit. It is another to find purpose and meaning in that symbol and adapt it to your own life.
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I was gonna say something like this, but you beat me to it.
 
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