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Lies and Phony Caricatures of Christianity

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Are you whining again? Do yourself a favor and go do some serious study this time on the Gospels, etc. It looks like all you've done is the skeptic's usual superficial reading. Heck, you didn't even know Jesus is divine in scripture. And you left Christianity? Like I said, you never knew to begin with what it was all about.
There are multiple interpretations of who and what Jesus is. Though most would agree that he is "divine" even though that is a poorly defined term. Trinitarians, those that believe Jesus is God, and even those that believe he is just the "Son of God" all could claim that he is divine.

One thing that I have noticed about some of the Christians lately is that they seem to be loath to properly define their terms when asked. It is almost as if they were afraid that with a clear definition that they could be proven to be wrong.
 

Spartan

Well-Known Member
There are multiple interpretations of who and what Jesus is. Though most would agree that he is "divine" even though that is a poorly defined term.

"poorly defined"? Only if one is physically and spiritually blinded. Here's just a small sampling:

1. Jesus existed in the beginning (John 1:1; Philip 2:6; Rev. 19:13; Micah 5:2).
2. He was with God (John 1:1).
3. He is God, the Son (John 1:1; Rom. 9:5; Heb. 1:8, 10; I John 5:20).
4. He is God manifest in the flesh (John 20:28; I Tim. 3:16; Col. 2:9; Acts 20:28; Heb. 1:8).
5. He is God foretold (Isaiah 9:6; Psalm 45:6).
6. He is Immanuel, God with us (Isaiah 7:14; Matthew 1:23).
7. He is the true God (I John 5:20 with Titus 2:13; Romans 9:5).
8. He is the great God (Titus 2:13).
9. He is God our Savior (II Peter 1:1).
10. He existed in the form of God before His incarnation and was equal with God the Father (Philippians 2:5-7)
11. He is the only wise God (Jude 25).
12. He is omnipotent over disease. (Matthew 8:1-4; Luke 4:39)
13. He is omnipotent over demons. (Matthew 8:16-17; Luke 4:35)
14. He is omnipotent over nature. ((Matthew 8:26)
15. He is omnipotent over death. (Luke 7:14-15; John 11:25)
16. He is omniscient, knowing the hearts of the Pharisees. (Matthew 12:25; Luke 5:22; 6:8; 7:39-40)
17. He knew the thoughts of the scribes. (Matthew 9:3-4)
18. He knew the history of the Samaritan woman. (John 4:24)
19. He is omnipresent. (Matthew 18:20; 28:20; John 3:13; 14:20)
20. He was worshiped as God by the angels (Hebrews 1:6); worshiped as God by the wise men (Matthew 2:2); worshiped as God by the shepherds (Luke 2:15); worshiped as God by a ruler (Matthew 9:18); worshiped as God by Thomas (John 20:28); worshiped as God by the apostles (Matthew 14:33;28:9)
21. He forgives sins. (Mark 2:5)
22. He saves (only God saves). Matthew 18:11; John 10:28).
23. He judges. (John 5:22)
24. Paul, Peter, Jude, James, and John called Him God. (Galatians 2:20; 1 Peter 3:22; Jude 25; James 2:1; I John 5:20; Revelation 1:18; 19:16)
25. He is God’s Son, who was sent to bring us eternal life. (John 3:16)
26. He arose from death in the flesh (John 20:26-28; Luke 24:39-43; I John 4:2-3).
27. One with the Father (John 10:30). The Deity of Jesus Christ in Scripture
 

oldbadger

Skanky Old Mongrel!
............... ....................... Do yourself a favor and go do some serious study this time on the Gospels, etc.
Well, I did.
The Apostle John was NOT the Disciple John BarZebedee. The Apostle even met Iraneaus in the 2nd century.
The life expectancy of Galilean peasants was about 45years, yet you believe that Jihn BarZebedee reached circa 95-105 yrs. :facepalm:

Luke was not a witness..... to any of Jesus's l;ife or campaign.

Matthew the Levite, publican and disciple did NOT write G-Matthew or he could have written the story in his own words, rather than copied other reports.

That leave us with G-Mark which I think could have been the account of a partial witness who also included Cephas's account. And the original G-Mark did not report any 'back to life' account.

There were no disciples at the tomb on the day of the execution (they had all scarpered) and there were only Magdalene and Salome who returned after 24 hours to find that the tomb was empty, save for a man who told them that Jesus had risen and gone. You think that risen founds your faith, I think it founds my findings. :shrug:

As for Thomas...... he thought Jesus was dead. When Jesus showed his injuries Thomas knew that he was simply ALIVE. And why Christians treat Thomas's doubt as something bad is just strange........

Look, if you believe in Jesus as a Christ then that's ok..... but this thread is about Fundamentalist Christians who are bigoted about Gender freedom, Sexuality and sexual freedom, other religions, women's equality and rights, etc, and who amazingly don't want to support the poor, children-to-adulthood, medicine available for all and they want to add various offences to the capital crimes list. They even hate Churches that want to move away from the old bigotries, corruptions and extremism.

So if you're a new Christian with new ideas for human rights and human freedoms, that's great.

But if you're a die-hard, fundie extremist then I hope that your numbers dwindle and your churches fail, is all.
 

Spartan

Well-Known Member
Well, I did.
The Apostle John was NOT the Disciple John BarZebedee. The Apostle even met Iraneaus in the 2nd century.
The life expectancy of Galilean peasants was about 45years, yet you believe that Jihn BarZebedee reached circa 95-105 yrs. :facepalm:

Matthew the Levite, publican and disciple did NOT write G-Matthew or he could have written the story in his own words, rather than copied other reports.

That leave us with G-Mark which I think could have been the account of a partial witness who also included Cephas's account. And the original G-Mark did not report any 'back to life' account.

There were no disciples at the tomb on the day of the execution (they had all scarpered) and there were only Magdalene and Salome who returned after 24 hours to find that the tomb was empty, save for a man who told them that Jesus had risen and gone. You think that risen founds your faith, I think it founds my findings. :shrug:

As for Thomas...... he thought Jesus was dead. When Jesus showed his injuries Thomas knew that he was simply ALIVE. And why Christians treat Thomas's doubt as something bad is just strange........

Look, if you believe in Jesus as a Christ then that's ok..... but this thread is about Fundamentalist Christians who are bigoted about Gender freedom, Sexuality and sexual freedom, other religions, women's equality and rights, etc, and who amazingly don't want to support the poor, children-to-adulthood, medicine available for all and they want to add various offences to the capital crimes list. They even hate Churches that want to move away from the old bigotries, corruptions and extremism.

So if you're a new Christian with new ideas for human rights and human freedoms, that's great.

But if you're a die-hard, fundie extremist then I hope that your numbers dwindle and your churches fail, is all.

Your revisionist history is hardly compelling. I think Satan would be proud of it.
 

It Aint Necessarily So

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Are you whining again?

He's telling you that he found Christianity insufficient. So did I. It's a fabricated and infantilizing world view disconnected from reality, and one with no explanatory or predictive power. "Goddidit" palls as an answer to anything. It doesn't satisfy.

Do yourself a favor and go do some serious study this time on the Gospels, etc.

Do yourself a favor and walk away from religion. Read something better.

you left Christianity?

Plenty of us have. It was a improvement in my life.

"poorly defined"? Only if one is physically and spiritually blinded. Here's just a small sampling:

1. Jesus existed in the beginning (John 1:1; Philip 2:6; Rev. 19:13; Micah 5:2).
2. He was with God (John 1:1).
3. He is God, the Son (John 1:1; Rom. 9:5; Heb. 1:8, 10; I John 5:20).
4. He is God manifest in the flesh (John 20:28; I Tim. 3:16; Col. 2:9; Acts 20:28; Heb. 1:8).
5. He is God foretold (Isaiah 9:6; Psalm 45:6).
6. He is Immanuel, God with us (Isaiah 7:14; Matthew 1:23).
7. He is the true God (I John 5:20 with Titus 2:13; Romans 9:5).
8. He is the great God (Titus 2:13).
9. He is God our Savior (II Peter 1:1).
10. He existed in the form of God before His incarnation and was equal with God the Father (Philippians 2:5-7)
11. He is the only wise God (Jude 25).
12. He is omnipotent over disease. (Matthew 8:1-4; Luke 4:39)
13. He is omnipotent over demons. (Matthew 8:16-17; Luke 4:35)
14. He is omnipotent over nature. ((Matthew 8:26)
15. He is omnipotent over death. (Luke 7:14-15; John 11:25)
16. He is omniscient, knowing the hearts of the Pharisees. (Matthew 12:25; Luke 5:22; 6:8; 7:39-40)
17. He knew the thoughts of the scribes. (Matthew 9:3-4)
18. He knew the history of the Samaritan woman. (John 4:24)
19. He is omnipresent. (Matthew 18:20; 28:20; John 3:13; 14:20)
20. He was worshiped as God by the angels (Hebrews 1:6); worshiped as God by the wise men (Matthew 2:2); worshiped as God by the shepherds (Luke 2:15); worshiped as God by a ruler (Matthew 9:18); worshiped as God by Thomas (John 20:28); worshiped as God by the apostles (Matthew 14:33;28:9)
21. He forgives sins. (Mark 2:5)
22. He saves (only God saves). Matthew 18:11; John 10:28).
23. He judges. (John 5:22)
24. Paul, Peter, Jude, James, and John called Him God. (Galatians 2:20; 1 Peter 3:22; Jude 25; James 2:1; I John 5:20; Revelation 1:18; 19:16)
25. He is God’s Son, who was sent to bring us eternal life. (John 3:16)
26. He arose from death in the flesh (John 20:26-28; Luke 24:39-43; I John 4:2-3).
27. One with the Father (John 10:30). The Deity of Jesus Christ in Scripture

I have no reason to believe any of that. Neither do you.

Plus, it's not difficult to find contradictory scripture.
 

Spartan

Well-Known Member
He's telling you that he found Christianity insufficient. So did I. It's a fabricated and infantilizing world view disconnected from reality, and one with no explanatory or predictive power. "Goddidit" palls as an answer to anything. It doesn't satisfy.

It satisfies a billion adherents around the world, much more so than conflicted skeptics.

Plus, it's not difficult to find contradictory scripture.

It's not difficult to find dozens of websites that explain or refute those either.
 

JJ50

Well-Known Member
It satisfies a billion adherents around the world, much more so than conflicted skeptics.



It's not difficult to find dozens of websites that explain or refute those either.

Just because many people believe something to be true, doesn't make it so. A lot of people think Islam is true too, but you don't see it their way do you?
 

Spartan

Well-Known Member
Just because many people believe something to be true, doesn't make it so. A lot of people think Islam is true too, but you don't see it their way do you?

Just because many people don't believe something to be true, doesn't make it so.
 

oldbadger

Skanky Old Mongrel!
Your revisionist history is hardly compelling. I think Satan would be proud of it.

Perfect introduction foe me............ lovely.

There are other moderate Christians on this thread, @sojourner being one of several, and I expect that it is uncomfortable for their Christianity to be linked in any way to what I think could be yours........ extremism?

You see, fundy extremists have this way of adjusting their mindsets to justify their actions. Once they have labelled a person as satanic or evil then this can allow them to leave humanity behind in their treatment of said folks. They can then do anything and still be serving their idea of what God wants. Quite dreadful?

Now this condition could be recognised as a kind of psychosis. I think of words like Christosis? Or possibly Pyschrist?

Just an idea. But of course I do hope that, like Jesus, you're moderate for and about humanity. Look at how he saved the adulteress........ a perfect example for you to follow.
 

usfan

Well-Known Member
1) What do you consider to be "anti-Christian lies?"
2) You have yet to prove that these are false narratives. When you can do that, we'll talk.
You need to prove that they're false narratives. You haven't done that as yet.
1. The OP has a list. You've been addressing some on that list.
2. I can only dismiss false accusations. So, for the charge of 'change!' and 'errors!', i can only assert back, 'false!' You have no evidence for your accusations.
I've done that.
Crickets from you.
:facepalm:
I can only examine evidence presented. I cannot refute beliefs and assertions.
Can you prove your assertion? Can you prove that there are no errors in the bible? From where I'm sitting, with all the evidence I have, your assertion is a false narrative that undermines Christian integrity.
Yes.

"There are no errors in the Bible'"

We can trade assertions, or look at evidence. Give it your best shot, and I'll examine your arguments.
I already have. But since you failed to respond rationally to it I must first ask you to clearly define what you mean by "error".
Are the clear myths of the Bible "errors"?
Are the failed prophecies of the Bible "errors"?
And please, no false claims. You are merely accusing others of your sins.
1. What 'clear myths!?' Specify chapter and verse, and support your premise.
2. What 'failed prophecy!?' Lame smears with presumption of the lies and false narratives is not evidence.
That has been done several times. You have yet to rebut anything. You do not even appear to have examined anything.
:facepalm:
Right.
I'm still waiting for many answers from you, but the one about Christian charities paying for hospitals would be a good one. I asked you to name five Christian founded hospitals on Christian charity
Really? You don't believe Christians have founded or supported hospitals?
:facepalm:
I'm not going to be deflected with lame accusations that don't even address the topic. What point does 'Christian!' involvement in hospitals have, anyway?

Look it up, if you want to know.
But no Christian founded and fully funded hospitals yet. I asked for five.
Ask for 20!. Or 100! What is the point of this 'gotcha!' deflection? :shrug:

Don't hold your breath... the poster hasn't answered my challenges either -- and probably won't.
Give me a break. I don't have to hop when you say frog, and i have better things to do than agonize over irrelevant deflections, and unevidenced assertions.

If you wanted an honest debate, you'd follow the protocol:
1. Make your charge.
2. Support it.
3. It can then be examined, and a rebuttal offered.

Or mine. He will not tell us what he considers an "error". All he does is to deny.
ROFL!!

DENIER! HATER! EVIL FUNDAMENTALIST!
Yep.
The thing is, I think that the way in which the OP has written various posts on this thread has damaged Christianity more than if a bunch of screaming die-hard atheists had organised it all.
It seems like a ciovert assault ......... :shrug:
I'd like to examine this 'argument more thoroughly.

1. My posts have smeared Christianity more than atheists.

How? Defending historical, traditional Christianity from lies and smears somehow denigrates xtianity? You'll have to evidence this, not just toss it out as a smear.

So, you seem to imply that you'd like Jesus and Christianity were it not for hateful deniers like me, who ruin it with bad etiquette.

But you blame Christianity as being false, 'changed!, and deceptive. So am i a product of this evil ideology, or the cause of it's evil?

Either way, this is either an ad hom deflection, to demean me, personally, or it is the typical lie and false caricature listed in the OP:

2. Christianity is responsible for all wars, exploitation, and oppression.
5. American Christians want a theocracy.
6. American Christians want to ban all books but the bible.
7. The bible is the source of all hate and oppression in the world.
8. Christians want to force everyone to believe, and go to church.
9. Christians hate atheists, agnostics, Buddhists, muslims, Hindus, and any who do not believe as they do.
11. Christians want to control and manipulate everyone.

So, did i, personally, CAUSE these things, or are they inherent to Christianity? Get your smears straight, and evidence them, if you can..

I do tire of the NON debate ad hom, pissy remarks, and cattiness, as though that is a substitute for facts and reason. And, in Progresso World, it is! ;)

Post some facts, arguments, and evidence for your charges, and i will be happy to examine them. But i am under no compulsion to hop everytime you toss a fallacious frog on the table.
;) :frogface:
 

usfan

Well-Known Member
I think the OP would consider anyone "progressive" who does not take the texts literalistically, who does not imbue the texts with being "God's words" that fell out of the sky in King James English one day.
:rolleyes:

You guys never tire of ad hom and distortions, do you?

So, a caricature of what YOU THINK are my beliefs substitutes for 'reasoned debate', in Progresso World?

Do you think this smears xtianity by proxy, since such a horrible product of Christianity ideology (yours truly), has been molded by this hateful, denier ridden, superstition that has an ulterior agenda of oppressing and controlling everyone?

I am who i am.. (should be, Yam, with popeye arms!) I've gotten old and crabby, over the years, and tire easily refuting the same old lies and phony narratives that enemies of Christianity have pitched for decades, centuries, and millennia. The enemies always start new, with each generation, and think they are finally destroying this hated ideology, but all they ever do is expose their own bigotry, Indoctrination, or agenda.

Progressive Indoctrinees...
:facepalm:

They think they are 'New!', and hip, but they only have the same old repackaged lies and distortions that have been around for millennia.

/shakes head/

And btw, if you seriously want an intelligent debate over the actual evidence, go for it! But i suspect all you have are fallacies... :shrug:
 

usfan

Well-Known Member
. but this thread is about Fundamentalist Christians who are bigoted about Gender freedom, Sexuality and sexual freedom, other religions, women's equality and rights, etc, and who amazingly don't want to support the poor, children-to-adulthood, medicine available for all and they want to add various offences to the capital crimes list. They even hate Churches
ROFL!!

Whoda thunk it? You REALLY know the secret agenda of the OP, and can see right through his code words and ulterior motives!!

LOL!!

Why should i even bother posting anything? You're going to 'filter' it through your narratives and condemn me, no matter what! What a great way to 'debate!' No facts, reason or arguments needed, just secret insight into the hidden agenda of the hated Christians!! :eek:

Who needs revisionist history, when you can just revise and filter your hated enemies into evil, subhuman monsters! ;) :imp:
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
1. The OP has a list. You've been addressing some on that list.
2. I can only dismiss false accusations. So, for the charge of 'change!' and 'errors!', i can only assert back, 'false!' You have no evidence for your accusations.
1. The "list" is a mixture of poorly defined claims and strawman attacks. It is also an illegitimate way of debating called a Gish Gallop. Be specific. I have asked you to define what you mean by an error.

2. Again please be specific There have been no false accusations.

But let me help you. I will be a bit more specific. Anyone with at least a grade school level of scientific education can and should understand how the Noah's Ark story is a myth. If you claim that the the Bible states there was a worldwide flood then that is an error in the Bible since we know that it did not happen. If you do not understand how the flood never happened I will be glad to go into details.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
ROFL!!

Whoda thunk it? You REALLY know the secret agenda of the OP, and can see right through his code words and ulterior motives!!

LOL!!

Why should i even bother posting anything? You're going to 'filter' it through your narratives and condemn me, no matter what! What a great way to 'debate!' No facts, reason or arguments needed, just secret insight into the hidden agenda of the hated Christians!! :eek:

Who needs revisionist history, when you can just revise and filter your hated enemies into evil, subhuman monsters! ;) :imp:
The problem is that your behavior is amazingly like that of fundamentalist Christians. They make claims that they cannot and will not support. They try to be vague whenever possible in a debate since facts are their enemy. If you don't like the accusations then change your behavior for the better.
 

usfan

Well-Known Member
One thing that I have noticed about some of the Christians lately is that they seem to be loath to properly define their terms when asked. It is almost as if they were afraid that with a clear definition that they could be proven to be wrong.
I thought i did.. :shrug:

..but since you know what i really mean, why don't you save me some time? ;)
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
I thought i did.. :shrug:

..but since you know what i really mean, why don't you save me some time? ;)
Nope, you never did and you still have not. And I do not know what you really mean. All I can do at this time is to draw a conclusion on poor data. Instead of wasting time claiming that you did something that you clearly did not why don't you define what you mean by an error?
 

usfan

Well-Known Member
The problem is that your behavior is amazingly like that of fundamentalist Christians. They make claims that they cannot and will not support. They try to be vague whenever possible in a debate since facts are their enemy. If you don't like the accusations then change your behavior for the better.
..just more ad hom deflections.. nothing at all topical here..:shrug:

Labels, deflections, fallacies. But no facts or reason..

Welcome to Progresso World ..

:(
 
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