Lies and Phony Caricatures of Christianity

[Spartan]

Why don't you study?

I've got my theology degrees. You have what, more hot air?

 

[sooda]

Just because many people believe something to be true, doesn't make it so. A lot of people think Islam is true too, but you don't see it their way do you?

I don't think any of it is true, nor sacred literature.

When Abraham murdered Isaac

 

[sooda]

I've got my theology degrees. You have what, more hot air?

From some pissant Bible College?

When Abraham murdered Isaac

Proof that the Bible is Wrong and that Ismail, not Isaac, was ...
anusha.com/isaac.htm
PROOF THAT THE BIBLE IS WRONG AND THAT ISHMAEL AND NOT ISAAC WAS TO BE SACRIFICED BY ABRAHAM. By Ismail Sloan Judaism, Christianity and Islam are all variations of the same basic religion. All believe in one God and that Adam was the first man. All have essentially the same line of prophets.

 

[Spartan]

Perfect introduction foe me............ lovely.

There are other moderate Christians on this thread, @sojourner being one of several, and I expect that it is uncomfortable for their Christianity to be linked in any way to what I think could be yours........ extremism?

You see, fundy extremists have this way of adjusting their mindsets to justify their actions. Once they have labelled a person as satanic or evil then this can allow them to leave humanity behind in their treatment of said folks. They can then do anything and still be serving their idea of what God wants. Quite dreadful?

Now this condition could be recognised as a kind of psychosis. I think of words like Christosis? Or possibly Pyschrist?

Just an idea. But of course I do hope that, like Jesus, you're moderate for and about humanity. Look at how he saved the adulteress........ a perfect example for you to follow.

A clue for you: The Bible itself defines whose theology is Satanic:

"Who is the liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist who denies the Father and the Son." - 1 John 2:22

 

[Spartan]

From some pissant Bible College?

When Abraham murdered Isaac

Proof that the Bible is Wrong and that Ismail, not Isaac, was ...
anusha.com/isaac.htm
PROOF THAT THE BIBLE IS WRONG AND THAT ISHMAEL AND NOT ISAAC WAS TO BE SACRIFICED BY ABRAHAM. By Ismail Sloan Judaism, Christianity and Islam are all variations of the same basic religion. All believe in one God and that Adam was the first man. All have essentially the same line of prophets.

You're wrong on both counts.

 

[Subduction Zone]

..just more ad hom deflections.. nothing at all topical here..

Labels, deflections, fallacies. But no facts or reason..

Welcome to Progresso World ..

No, that is neither a deflection or an ad hom. We went over what is and what is not an ad hom. You apparently did not understand. Would you like to do that again. Nor was it a deflection. That is what your post was with the false claims.

Once again an ad hom fallacy is on the order of:

"You are ugly, therefore you are wrong".

Has anyone done anything remotely like that? The attack has to have nothing to do with the argument that is being held. Pointing out your obvious errors is neither an ad hominem fallacy nor an ad hominem attack.

So one more time, please be specific:

What do you mean by an error in the Bible? Please do not refer to the failed OP.

 

[Subduction Zone]

You're wrong on both counts.

Well that's a convincing argument

 

[sooda]

A clue for you: The Bible itself defines whose theology is Satanic:

"Who is the liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist who denies the Father and the Son." - 1 John 2:22

Ancient Egyptian Papyrus Tells A Different Story About Biblical Isaac’s Fate

 

[oldbadger]

ROFL!!

Whoda thunk it? You REALLY know the secret agenda of the OP, and can see right through his code words and ulterior motives!!

LOL!!

Why should i even bother posting anything? You're going to 'filter' it through your narratives and condemn me, no matter what! What a great way to 'debate!' No facts, reason or arguments needed, just secret insight into the hidden agenda of the hated Christians!!

Who needs revisionist history, when you can just revise and filter your hated enemies into evil, subhuman monsters!

Now come on, usfan. Get a grip.
It's no good ranting and railing.

Really? You don't believe Christians have founded or supported hospitals?

I'm not going to be deflected with lame accusations that don't even address the topic. What point does 'Christian!' involvement in hospitals have, anyway?
Look it up, if you want to know.
Ask for 20!. Or 100! What is the point of this 'gotcha!' deflection?

Oh usfan! You make so many claims, yet cannot come back with evidence for one!
Usfan! I only asked for 5.
Having exchanged posts with moderate and progressive Christians on this very thread, and perceiving how fundamentally extreme your posts seem to be, it occurs to me that the moderates need to separate themselves far far away from the fundies because fundamental extremist groups are most definitely damaging the reputations of all Churches and Denominations.
You don't seem to have a denomination as far as I can see, so I wonder how a clear identification between one and t'other might be achieved?

 

[usfan]

He's telling you that he found Christianity insufficient. So did I. It's a fabricated and infantilizing world view disconnected from reality

..right.. no smears there!

This is a fact, to you. It is a propaganda driven lie, to me. Care to debate the actual facts? Or is it easier to just reassert your bigoted beliefs?

Do yourself a favor and walk away from religion.

..by which you mean, 'Christianity'. You would get no argument from me, for 'religion!', being the opiate of the masses, and i include indoctrinated atheism in that.

You see, fundy extremists have this way of adjusting their mindsets to justify their actions. Once they have labelled a person as satanic or evil then this can allow them to leave humanity behind in their treatment of said folks. They can then do anything and still be serving their idea of what God wants. Quite dreadful?
Now this condition could be recognised as a kind of psychosis. I think of words like Christosis? Or possibly Pyschrist?

ROFL!
Ok, so you want some cutesy labels, with which to demonize your ideological enemies.

How about the 'Proggy Hop', for you, then? You demand instant answers for your hop frog deflections, have an insulting label for the competition, then cling to Proggy Hop talking points, rather than read or respond to any points made.

Nice hopping, Proggy!

1. The "list" is a mixture of poorly defined claims and strawman attacks. It is also an illegitimate way of debating called a Gish Gallop. Be specific. I have asked you to define what you mean by an error.

Yadda, yadda, yadda.. so you assert..

Keep doing the Proggy Hop, its way better than the Gish Gallop!

Yes, 'error', is such a vague concept...

Progressive Indoctrinees..

Anyone with at least a grade school level of scientific education can and should understand how the Noah's Ark story is a myth.

Yes, so you assert. But millions of people believe differently than you and your fellow indoctrinees.

I think 'no God!', is a myth.. a constantly propagandized myth, but a lie, nevertheless.

..but i don't carry on, like progressive indoctrinees. I accept that people have different beliefs, and respect them. I DON'T accept lies and distortions from competing religionists trying to disparage the competition.

The problem is that your behavior is amazingly like that of fundamentalist Christians. They make claims that they cannot and will not support.

Does that make you a 'Fundamentalist!', since you cannot support your false accusations against Christianity?

If you don't like the accusations then change

Wait.. first you said you don't accuse.. now you do..

Why should i sacrifice the truth for your unbased accusations?

Why don't you study?

Why don't you use facts and reason?

Aren't there enough fallacies in this thread already?

 

[usfan]

I know that pissy insults, and attempts at biting wit is the preferred 'debate' in these forums. But i will direct it back to the topic, from time to time, in case anyone wants to talk about it, rather than deflect with ad hom streams..

Some false narratives, and my short rebuttals:

1. Christianity is responsible for most of the atrocities of humanity.
False.
Human greed, the lust for power, and man made institutions are at the root of man's inhumanity to man, not Christian ideology, which teaches the exact opposite.
2. The bible is full of errors.
False.
No historical accounts recorded in the biblical manuscripts have been disproved or refuted by any evidence.
3. The bible has changed many times.
False.
The early church fathers quoted every passage in the new testament, and plenty from the old. There is no substantive disagreement with our current translations. All the historical manuscripts have lots of corroboration from other documents. The biblical manuscripts have a long history of scholarship and textual criticism by a continuous line of biblical scholars, translators, and historians.
4. Hitler was a Christian.
False.
Hitler despised Christianity, and esteemed Islam. He was a chameleon, manipulating people for his agenda. He did not follow or esteem the teachings of Jesus.
5. Christianity is an opiate for humanity, squashing free expression.
False.
Christianity has provided the basis for enlightenment thought, freedom of conscience, human equality, and the natural rights of Man.
6. The bible can be translated in many ways, and can mean whatever anyone wants it to mean.
False.
There is a scholarly, exegetical intent of the words used in the biblical manuscripts. Scholars may differ in some of the nuances in translation, but the source is clear and historically accurate. Individuals might apply personal meanings from a passage, but that does not override the original intent of the author.
7. Christianity demands a political theocracy, mandating Christian values as law.
False.
That is the agenda of Marxism and Islam. Historical Christianity is not involved with the secular state, and has always been contrary to the mandates from despots. Since the reformation, separation of church and state has been a constant theme.
8. Christianity is an ideology of oppression, mandating conformity and submission to elites.
False.
Christianity has never been a good fit with man's institutions. It has constantly rebelled against the status quo, and openly defied human authority and power.
9. Christianity is anti science.
False.
Many early scientists were Christians, looking to see 'what God hath wrought'.
10. Christianity is anti education.
False.
Almost all older universities have Christian principles in their mission statement.
11. Christianity is bigoted and racist.
False.
Christians led the abolition movements. Human equality is a basic principle of Christianity. It is anti elitist, unlike the institutions of the world.

 

[usfan]

Oh usfan! You make so many claims, yet cannot come back with evidence for one!
Usfan! I only asked for 5.
Having exchanged posts with moderate and progressive Christians on this very thread, and perceiving how fundamentally extreme your posts seem to be, it occurs to me that the moderates need to separate themselves far far away from the fundies because fundamental extremist groups are most definitely damaging the reputations of all Churches and Denominations.

Hop away, Proggy!

Divide and conquer, too! Now, if you can only get everyone on board with dehumanizing 'fundies!', or whatever demonizing term that works.. then you could call for cleansing! For the sake of humanity, to rid the world of this evil!!

ROFL!!

I love these great illustrations of the OP.

But I'm sure you are right. No 'Christians!', have ever started, funded, or worked at any hospitals. You all 'know' that they just want to kill everyone, right?

 

[sooda]

I know that pissy insults, and attempts at biting wit is the preferred 'debate' in these forums. But i will direct it back to the topic, from time to time, in case anyone wants to talk about it, rather than deflect with ad hom streams..

Some false narratives, and my short rebuttals:

1. Christianity is responsible for most of the atrocities of humanity.
False.
Human greed, the lust for power, and man made institutions are at the root of man's inhumanity to man, not Christian ideology, which teaches the exact opposite.
2. The bible is full of errors.
False.
No historical accounts recorded in the biblical manuscripts have been disproved or refuted by any evidence.
3. The bible has changed many times.
False.
The early church fathers quoted every passage in the new testament, and plenty from the old. There is no substantive disagreement with our current translations. All the historical manuscripts have lots of corroboration from other documents. The biblical manuscripts have a long history of scholarship and textual criticism by a continuous line of biblical scholars, translators, and historians.
4. Hitler was a Christian.
False.
Hitler despised Christianity, and esteemed Islam. He was a chameleon, manipulating people for his agenda. He did not follow or esteem the teachings of Jesus.
5. Christianity is an opiate for humanity, squashing free expression.
False.
Christianity has provided the basis for enlightenment thought, freedom of conscience, human equality, and the natural rights of Man.
6. The bible can be translated in many ways, and can mean whatever anyone wants it to mean.
False.
There is a scholarly, exegetical intent of the words used in the biblical manuscripts. Scholars may differ in some of the nuances in translation, but the source is clear and historically accurate. Individuals might apply personal meanings from a passage, but that does not override the original intent of the author.
7. Christianity demands a political theocracy, mandating Christian values as law.
False.
That is the agenda of Marxism and Islam. Historical Christianity is not involved with the secular state, and has always been contrary to the mandates from despots. Since the reformation, separation of church and state has been a constant theme.
8. Christianity is an ideology of oppression, mandating conformity and submission to elites.
False.
Christianity has never been a good fit with man's institutions. It has constantly rebelled against the status quo, and openly defied human authority and power.
9. Christianity is anti science.
False.
Many early scientists were Christians, looking to see 'what God hath wrought'.
10. Christianity is anti education.
False.
Almost all older universities have Christian principles in their mission statement.
11. Christianity is bigoted and racist.
False.
Christians led the abolition movements. Human equality is a basic principle of Christianity. It is anti elitist, unlike the institutions of the world.

Your list is ridiculous... laughable.


Mass crimes against humanity and genocide: up to the end of ...
www.religioustolerance.org/genocide2.htm
Mass crimes against humanity prior to 1945. For about 300 years, during the late Middle Ages and Renaissance periods, the Roman Catholic and Protestant faith groups were directly or indirectly responsible for the arrest, torture and execution of persons believed to worship Satan or express heretical religious ideas.

 

[usfan]

Your list is ridiculous... laughable.
Mass crimes against humanity and genocide: up to the end of ...
www.religioustolerance.org/genocide2.htm
Mass crimes against humanity prior to 1945. For about 300 years, during the late Middle Ages and Renaissance periods, the Roman Catholic and Protestant faith groups were directly or indirectly responsible for the arrest, torture and execution of persons believed to worship Satan or express heretical religious ideas.

Well that settles that.

If a web site says so, it must be true. I guess that Christianity IS responsible for 'most' of the atrocities in humanity, and probably all!!

Quick!! Cleanse humanity from this deadly evil, before its too late!!

 

[Subduction Zone]

Yadda, yadda, yadda.. so you assert..

Keep doing the Proggy Hop, its way better than the Gish Gallop!

Yes, 'error', is such a vague concept...

Progressive Indoctrinees..

Unlike you I can support my claims. I would suggest that you get a bit more serious. You are in effect trolling right now and that is not well received here.

And why did you run away from the error that I offered to discuss with you? Running away is a sign that you know that you are wrong. By your views is the fact that there never was a worldwide flood an "error" or not?

 

[sojourner]

Yes.

"There are no errors in the Bible'"

We can trade assertions, or look at evidence. Give it your best shot, and I'll examine your arguments.

Well, present your evidence for your claims. We’ve been asking and waiting.

If you wanted an honest debate, you'd follow the protocol:
1. Make your charge.
2. Support it.
3. It can then be examined, and a rebuttal offered.

You started it; you prove that your charges are true. It begins at the beginning.

You guys never tire of ad hom and distortions, do you?

So, a caricature of what YOU THINK are my beliefs substitutes for 'reasoned debate', in Progresso World?

Do you think this smears xtianity by proxy, since such a horrible product of Christianity ideology (yours truly), has been molded by this hateful, denier ridden, superstition that has an ulterior agenda of oppressing and controlling everyone?

I am who i am.. (should be, Yam, with popeye arms!) I've gotten old and crabby, over the years, and tire easily refuting the same old lies and phony narratives that enemies of Christianity have pitched for decades, centuries, and millennia. The enemies always start new, with each generation, and think they are finally destroying this hated ideology, but all they ever do is expose their own bigotry, Indoctrination, or agenda.

Progressive Indoctrinees...

The post Wasn’t. About. You. The post was about progressives. You seem awfully touchy about the post though. I have to wonder if I hit a nerve with my post?

 

[usfan]

To the topic..

Christians hate education!'

..another popular caricature, from the anti-christian propagandists.

1. American education was founded upon Christian principles, and the desire to instruct the people in biblical values and moral behavior. Congress approved a bible to be printed and distributed for training, education, and instruction.
2. The mission statements of prestigious universities were overtly Christian and biblical, in their themes and goals.

Harvard: “Let every student be plainly instructed and earnestly pressed to consider well the end of his life and studies is to know God and Jesus Christ, which is eternal life, and therefore to lay Christ in the bottom, as the only foundation of all sound knowledge and learning.”

American education, far from being 'hated!' by Christians, was begun, grown, and organized by Christians.. some under a denominational banner, some unaffiliated.

Now, though i am old, I'm not that old. I had nothing to do with crafting any mission statements from the ivy league universities, nor did any of the founders text me asking for advice on wording or translating the Aitken Bible.

So any accusations that "Christians hate education!", is completely false, and any accusation that i, personally, 'hate education!', is as well.

In fact, i wish that my debating opponents had a small taste of liberal arts education, and not just the revisionist Indoctrination from Progressivism..

 

[sojourner]

It's not difficult to find dozens of websites that explain or refute those either

It’s not difficult to find web sites for conspiracy theories, flat earth, and Trump support, either...


Just sayin’.

 

[usfan]

Well, present your evidence for your claims. We’ve been asking and waiting.

What claims???

Debating with progressive indoctrinees is maddening...

I am REFUTING the claims that, 'the bible is full of errors!', and other such smears toward Christianity. YOU have the burden to evidence your accusations. I can only dismiss unbased accusations.

I cannot understand why that is so hard to grasp..

..propably just a progressive tactic.. Orwellian confusion to frustrate your enemy.. ..sorta works..

But I'll probably start to ignore or skip over the Proggy Hop demands..

..just don't feel like hopping, i guess..

..carry on. I don't have the time or inclination to expose the deluge of propaganda that is pitched here. So, for those who think truth is dependent on loud repetition, hysteria, and hostile accusations, the Dark Ages called.. they look forward to a rebirth.

 

[Spartan]

It’s not difficult to find web sites for conspiracy theories, flat earth, and Trump support, either...


Just sayin’.

And it's not hard to find left-wing progressive nonsense on the web either.