You consider your own baptism you were at as alleged? Weren't you there?
Do you think God really cares?
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Was I properly baptised?
- Thread starter Jonathan Bailey
- Start date
Ah - I was talking about actual baptism - i.e. the practice as it actually exists - and not about my beliefs about how baptism used to be practiced or counterfactuals of how I think baptism ought to be done.
Traditions are many regarding baptism. I will not use conversation stoppers like "false". That is why I narrowed it down to scriptural support. Like I said, I could be wrong, but I would like to see evidence.
Skwim
Veteran Member
BAPTISM
"Baptism is practiced in several different ways. Aspersion is the sprinkling of water on the head, and affusion is the pouring of water over the head.
The word "immersion" is derived from late Latin immersio, a noun derived from the verb immergere (in – "into" + mergere "dip"). In relation to baptism, some use it to refer to any form of dipping, whether the body is put completely under water or is only partly dipped in water; they thus speak of immersion as being either total or partial. Others, of the Anabaptist belief, use "immersion" to mean exclusively plunging someone entirely under the surface of the water. The term "immersion" is also used of a form of baptism in which water is poured over someone standing in water, without submersion of the person. On these three meanings of the word "immersion", see Immersion baptism.
When "immersion" is used in opposition to "submersion",] it indicates the form of baptism in which the candidate stands or kneels in water and water is poured over the upper part of the body. Immersion in this sense has been employed in West and East since at least the 2nd century and is the form in which baptism is generally depicted in early Christian art. In the West, this method of baptism began to be replaced by affusion baptism from around the 8th century, but it continues in use in Eastern Christianity.
The liturgy of baptism for Catholics, Eastern Orthodox, Lutheran, Anglican, and Methodist makes clear reference to baptism as not only a symbolic burial and resurrection, but an actual supernatural transformation, one that draws parallels to the experience of Noah and the passage of the Israelites through the Red Sea divided by Moses. Thus, baptism is literally and symbolically not only cleansing, but also dying and rising again with Christ. Catholics believe baptism is necessary to cleanse the taint of original sin, and so commonly baptise infants.
Anabaptist
Today all forms of baptism can be found among Anabaptist.
Baptist
For the majority of Baptists, baptism is by immersion
Churches of Christ
Immersion
Methodism
Immersion, sprinkling, or pouring.
Catholic
Submersion, immersion or affusion, or aspersion (sprinkling),
Jehovah's Witnesses
Immersion (submersion) only when an individual is old enough to understand its significance.
Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints
Full immersion,
Pentecostal
Submersion
Disciples of Christ
Mostly immersion; others pouring.
Eastern Orthodox Church
Immersion
Lutheran
By sprinkling, pouring or immersion
Quaker
Do not believe in baptism
Seventh-day Adventists
Immersion
Congregational
sprinkling, pouring, immersion or submersion.
Source: Wikipedia
.
"Baptism is practiced in several different ways. Aspersion is the sprinkling of water on the head, and affusion is the pouring of water over the head.
The word "immersion" is derived from late Latin immersio, a noun derived from the verb immergere (in – "into" + mergere "dip"). In relation to baptism, some use it to refer to any form of dipping, whether the body is put completely under water or is only partly dipped in water; they thus speak of immersion as being either total or partial. Others, of the Anabaptist belief, use "immersion" to mean exclusively plunging someone entirely under the surface of the water. The term "immersion" is also used of a form of baptism in which water is poured over someone standing in water, without submersion of the person. On these three meanings of the word "immersion", see Immersion baptism.
When "immersion" is used in opposition to "submersion",] it indicates the form of baptism in which the candidate stands or kneels in water and water is poured over the upper part of the body. Immersion in this sense has been employed in West and East since at least the 2nd century and is the form in which baptism is generally depicted in early Christian art. In the West, this method of baptism began to be replaced by affusion baptism from around the 8th century, but it continues in use in Eastern Christianity.
The liturgy of baptism for Catholics, Eastern Orthodox, Lutheran, Anglican, and Methodist makes clear reference to baptism as not only a symbolic burial and resurrection, but an actual supernatural transformation, one that draws parallels to the experience of Noah and the passage of the Israelites through the Red Sea divided by Moses. Thus, baptism is literally and symbolically not only cleansing, but also dying and rising again with Christ. Catholics believe baptism is necessary to cleanse the taint of original sin, and so commonly baptise infants.
Anabaptist
Today all forms of baptism can be found among Anabaptist.
Baptist
For the majority of Baptists, baptism is by immersion
Churches of Christ
Immersion
Methodism
Immersion, sprinkling, or pouring.
Catholic
Submersion, immersion or affusion, or aspersion (sprinkling),
Jehovah's Witnesses
Immersion (submersion) only when an individual is old enough to understand its significance.
Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints
Full immersion,
Pentecostal
Submersion
Disciples of Christ
Mostly immersion; others pouring.
Eastern Orthodox Church
Immersion
Lutheran
By sprinkling, pouring or immersion
Quaker
Do not believe in baptism
Seventh-day Adventists
Immersion
Congregational
sprinkling, pouring, immersion or submersion.
Source: Wikipedia
.
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No; you used the conversation stopper "always.
As you acknowledge now, there's a diversity of traditions, so "not always" is accurate.
Scripture might only be useful in telling us what the practice of baptism ought to be. What the practice of baptism is is evidenced in what happens in churches today.
Riders
Well-Known Member
Well I dont think it matter water is water. If you go to the united Pentecostal church they claim you have to be immersed in water and baptized in the name of Jesus only not the father son and holy ghost or your not saved. They were crazy this is why I dont believe in getting upset over baptism methods.
exchemist
Veteran Member
According to Catholic teaching any Christian can baptise. All you need to do is pour some water onto their forehead and say "I baptise you in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost (or Spirit)". And that's it.
So, if you are in any doubt, get any Christian friend to do it again for you, with some water from a teacup.
shmogie
Well-Known Member
It SHOULD be always at an age when the person could make a conscious decision to accept Christ.
From the Bible the above is true.
Umm. I wasn't referring to baptism today. But whatever. However each church practices the tradition is their business. To each their own. I'm not going to beat this dead horse anymore.
lostwanderingsoul
Well-Known Member
I wonder if God gets upset when people do not bother finding out what He wants?
Handy tip to avoid future misunderstandings: English has several past tenses.
If we're going by the Bible, then I'd go with a view that has been common in Quaker circles: that water baptism is now obsolete and that Jesus's baptism is not with water:
Luke 3:15-17:
15 While the people were filled with anticipation and they all wondered whether perhaps John could be the Christ, 16 John answered them all, “I baptize you with water, but one more powerful than I am is coming—I am not worthy to untie the strap of his sandals. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire. 17 His winnowing fork is in his hand to clean out his threshing floor and to gather the wheat into his storehouse, but the chaff he will burn up with inextinguishable fire.”
Whatever
shmogie
Well-Known Member
Except, The Apostles baptized, with immersion in water.
Baptism isn´t a gift, as the Spirit is. It is a declaration of faith by the believer.
Is baptism even required? Were the Apostles baptised?
That's a whole other can of worms to open. Requirement for baptism varies from denomination to denomination. Some believe it is required for salvation, others do not.
Are you sure about that? Most of the passages in Acts about baptism fit better with baptism being a "washing in the Holy Spirit" than they do with a physical ritual, IMO.
nPeace
Veteran Member
Properly baptized according to whom?
Why not ask the one who required baptism.
(Matthew 3:16) . . .After being baptized, Jesus immediately came up from the water. . .
(John 1:33) . . .the very One who sent me to baptize in water said . . .
(John 3:22, 23) . . .Jesus and his disciples went into the Judean countryside, and there he spent some time with them and was baptizing. 23 But John too was baptizing in Aenon near Salim, because there was a great quantity of water there, and people kept coming and were being baptized;
(Acts 8:36-39) 36 Now as they were going along the road, they came to a body of water, and the eunuch said: “Look! Here is water; what prevents me from getting baptized?” 37 —— 38 With that he commanded the chariot to halt, and both Philip and the eunuch went down into the water, and he baptized him. 39 When they came up out of the water, Jehovah’s spirit quickly led Philip away, and the eunuch did not see him anymore, but he went on his way rejoicing.
Did you get the answer?
If the answer to your question is no, you are correct... according to scripture.
According to those who claim to be ministers of God, but apparently don't teach what Jesus and his followers taught in the Bible, their answer may be different, but does that agree with the teachings of God?
(2 Corinthians 11:12-15; 2 Timothy 4:2-4)
MJFlores
Well-Known Member
Luke 13:24 New International Version (NIV)
“Make every effort to enter through the narrow door, because many, I tell you, will try to enter and will not be able to.
Matthew 7:13 New International Version (NIV)
“Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it.
I believe there are two kinds of religion/churches - the narrow gate and the wide gate
Therefore - if one is baptized at the narrow gate - his baptism is proper and right
Other than that, it was just a meaningless exercise