Evidences Supporting the Biblical Flood

Subduction Zone · Nov 23, 2018

nPeace said:
Scientific method
At the core of modern scientific practice method is the idea that the value of a hypothesis, theory, or concept is best determined by its ability to make falsifiable predictions that one can test against empirical reality. This means that supernatural entities or concepts that are meaningless or logically contradictory cannot be included in a scientific hypothesis (not least because of the difficulty of putting a sample of a deity in a test-tube). Consequently, when carrying out investigations scientists assume a position of methodological naturalism.

You do not seem to understand that even if magic was the cause we could observe its effects. We may not be able to explain how the magic happened but if there was a magical flood it should leave some sort of evidence that it occurred. And we should not observe somethings that tell us that it did not occur.

For example if there was a flood as told in the Bible then organ transplants would not be a problem. Organ transplants are just one of the many pieces of evidence against the flood myth. And it is a rather strong one since the flood myth would have the magic continuing for generations after the flood.

Jose Fly · Nov 23, 2018

Subduction Zone said:
You do not seem to understand that even if magic was the cause we could observe its effects.

Actually, not really. Because the creationists are invoking God, and given that God (by definition) can do absolutely anything, then it's just as possible that God made the flood happen and then hid all the effects of the flood when it was over.

Subduction Zone · Nov 23, 2018

Jose Fly said:
Actually, not really. Because the creationists are invoking God, and given that God (by definition) can do absolutely anything, then it's just as possible that God made the flood happen and then hid all the effects of the flood when it was over.

What the flood believers do not seem to understand is that God would not only have had to hide his dirty work of flooding the Earth, but that he would have to have continued his God magic for generations after the flood to keep covering it up. And of course hiding evidence of doing something that one did is a form of lying. Why claim that God lief?

nPeace · Nov 23, 2018

Jose Fly said:
Exactly. So again, what's the point of this thread?

It's obvious answering my question is torture for you, so I won't continue to make you uncomfortable.
However, I'm keeping my word.

Subduction Zone said:
You do not seem to understand that even if magic was the cause we could observe its effects. We may not be able to explain how the magic happened but if there was a magical flood it should leave some sort of evidence that it occurred. And we should not observe somethings that tell us that it did not occur.

Just tagging along with you, on your identifying God's use of power over the elements, as magic. I guess that you are seeing magic as only a supernatural act as well.

So say for example, someone invented a device with a force so powerful as to push the waters, and split the sea in two, it would not be a miracle, or magic, but if a divine being does it, using the same technique, only far more advanced, it's magic.
Isn't that interesting...

I'm puzzled tough. Were you not provided with evidence? What evidence are you wanting to see... an ark on a mountain?

Subduction Zone said:
For example if there was a flood as told in the Bible then organ transplants would not be a problem. Organ transplants are just one of the many pieces of evidence against the flood myth. And it is a rather strong one since the flood myth would have the magic continuing for generations after the flood.

Why would organ transplant not be a problem? I'm not following you. What does the flood have to do with organ transplant?

Subduction Zone · Nov 23, 2018

nPeace said:
Just tagging along with you, on your identifying God's use of power over the elements, as magic. I guess that you are seeing magic as only a supernatural act as well.

So say for example, someone invented a device with a force so powerful as to push the waters, and split the sea in two, it would not be a miracle, or magic, but if a divine being does it, using the same technique, only far more advanced, it's magic.
Isn't that interesting...

I'm puzzled tough. Were you not provided with evidence? What evidence are you wanting to see... an ark on a mountain?

If someone invented a device that could do what you said that would not be magic since it would be explainable and repeatable. That is not the case with your beliefs in magic.

And no, no evidence was provided. Only misinterpretations of science.

Why would organ transplant not be a problem? I'm not following you. What does the flood have to do with organ transplant?

Because the flood predicts that it would not be. Do you not understand that? It claims that roughly 4,500 years ago there were only 8 people. We know what happens to a population that gets reduced to this point and does not die out. Organ transplant is not a problem with cheetahs. Do you know why?

URAVIP2ME · Nov 23, 2018

SpiritualisT said:
King Constatine proclaimed the Christianity as a oficial religion in the empire, being influenced by jews as they were achieving more and more power in the empire, otherwise I can't explain myself how a pagan emperor would proclaim as oficial a jewish doctrine. From this point started the inquisition and the forced conversion of the pagans to Christianity. You are quoting biblical verses but you forgot to consider the historical facts. But what we can expect from someone who thinks that the suicidal teachings of a fictional jew are actually a good thing? Love your enemies. This is exactly what jews wanted us to do and now they are controlling most of our existence.
Oh really? From your point of view, texts which are over 4000 years old are actually newer than a book which was written more than 1000 years later? And regarding the biblical stories themselves, nobody can set them in the known time because bible doesn't give any chronological mark or at least any proofs that these stories inside it really happened.

I find what King Constantine proclaimed is Christendom ( so-called Christian ) as the official religion.
1st-century Christianity ended with the 1st century. Constantine's religion came centuries later.
I usually refer to verses as to where they are located rather than quote them.

Jesus was plain at Matthew 23:38 that the Jewish ' house of worship ' was abandoned by God.
Since Pentecost the ' Israel of God ' is a spiritual Israel - Galatians 4:26
A spiritual nation meaning the Christian congregation - 1 Peter 2:9,5
That spiritual nation is Not located on any map and has No borders nor boundaries.
God only used the national fleshly Israel until Messiah (Jesus) came on the scene.
It is the world of Christendom that teaches to back the natural fleshly nation of Israel, Not Scripture.
The only kingdom aka government Jesus backed was God's kingdom of Daniel 2:44.
Meaning Jesus and his followers were and are neutral in their stand about world affairs.

nPeace · Nov 23, 2018

Subduction Zone said:
If someone invented a device that could do what you said that would not be magic since it would be explainable and repeatable. That is not the case with your beliefs in magic.

Just because one does not believe in something, does not mean it isn't. That's why some scientists believe there may be a far more advanced civilization. So to rule out a higher life just because you don't see it, is not reasonable, is it?

Subduction Zone said:
And no, no evidence was provided. Only misinterpretations of science.

Misinterpretation of science? As far as I saw, the OP showed that science does not know, so how was it misinterpreted?

Subduction Zone said:
Because the flood predicts that it would not be. Do you not understand that? It claims that roughly 4,500 years ago there were only 8 people. We know what happens to a population that gets reduced to this point and does not die out. Organ transplant is not a problem with cheetahs. Do you know why?

Yes, educate me about the bottleneck thingy, please.

ecco · Nov 23, 2018

Hockeycowboy said:
Global Flood evidence:

I just found this thread and have not read all 45 pages. I'm sure that by now someone would have pointed out that the article in the OP came from a Creationist website that states:

Welcome to the Noah's Ark and Early Man Seminar web-page of Arnold C. Mendez, Sr. You have been directed here because you recently attended a Noah's Ark Seminar (NAS) or an Early Man Seminar (EMS) as presented by Arnold C. Mendez, Sr., or have expressed interest in those subjects.

Mr. Mendez has authored a book titled Living with the Nephilim the Seed of Destruction. That should give you a good idea of the mindset of Mr. Mendez.

Furthermore, the article cited in the OP was authored by a Paul W. Kroll. Further down in the article, Kroll discusses the Scablands. He boldly asserts that the Scablands is "The Proof of Worldwide Catastrophe".

This is a flat out lie. The cause of the scablands has been known for over fifty years - and it is not a global flood.

So, what about the author of the article? Apparently, there are two Paul Kroll's of note. One is a student and writer on Medevil Chinese literature.

For the other one, I could only find a reference to a book ...

... which was on a web page for Herbert W. Armstrong, an evangelist who founded the Radio Church of God.

Nowhere is there any indication that any science is involved. Hockeycowboy, why is that?

Subduction Zone · Nov 23, 2018

nPeace said:
Just because one does not believe in something, does not mean it isn't. That's why some scientists believe there may be a far more advanced civilization. So to rule out a higher life just because you don't see it, is not reasonable, is it?

Your attempts to shift the burden of proof continue to fail. No one has ruled out a more advanced civilization or anything of the sort. One simply does not believe in such without adequate evidence.

Misinterpretation of science? As far as I saw, the OP showed that science does not know, so how was it misinterpreted?

No, at best the OP demonstrated what he does not know.

Yes, educate me about the bottleneck thingy, please.

The short version is that roughly ten thousand years ago cheetah's went through a population bottleneck event that almost caused them to go extinct. They were reduced to less than ten breeding individuals. That means there could have been older non-breeding cats and younger ones at that time, call it a population of twenty or so. As a result that near extinction event any two cheetahs that you come upon are almost certainly more closely related to each other genetically than any human brother or sister, excluding identical twins. Experiments were done with skin grafts and those transplants showed no signs of being rejected. Do you need links or a more thorough explanation? What that tells us is that one can transplant organs with ease among cheetahs. The skin is an organ, though many do not realize it. The flood predicts and even more severe worldwide population bottleneck than occurred with the cheetahs. We do not see that event. We can only see a few and they tend to be far more mild (meaning that larger populations, usually in the thousands, were involved).

Jose Fly · Nov 23, 2018

nPeace said:
It's obvious answering my question is torture for you, so I won't continue to make you uncomfortable.
However, I'm keeping my word.

I've asked you three or four times now what question you want me to answer and you completely refuse to say, while at the same time complaining that I won't answer this unknown question.

At this point it's obvious that all this is nothing more than a diversion tactic on your part, allowing you to not have to address the issues I've brought up. If this really were about a question you wanted me to answer, you would've said what the question was a long time ago.

So let this exchange serve as a great example of the intellectual emptiness of creationism. If it had any actual validity, folks like you wouldn't need to resort to such obvious dishonesty when defending it.

Jose Fly · Nov 23, 2018

Subduction Zone said:
What the flood believers do not seem to understand is that God would not only have had to hide his dirty work of flooding the Earth, but that he would have to have continued his God magic for generations after the flood to keep covering it up. And of course hiding evidence of doing something that one did is a form of lying. Why claim that God lief?

Why not? A lot of creationists subscribe to the "apparent age" belief, which also makes God dishonest. What's one more item on the pile?

shunyadragon · Nov 23, 2018

nPeace said:
Scientific method
At the core of modern scientific practice method is the idea that the value of a hypothesis, theory, or concept is best determined by its ability to make falsifiable predictions that one can test against empirical reality. This means that supernatural entities or concepts that are meaningless or logically contradictory cannot be included in a scientific hypothesis (not least because of the difficulty of putting a sample of a deity in a test-tube). Consequently, when carrying out investigations scientists assume a position of methodological naturalism.

Some posters interject the question of the existence of God, but that is not the topic of the thread. Based on the title the question is: What is the evidence supporting the Biblical Flood. So far none has been presented.

I am waiting for objective verifiable evidence that may test a hypothesis with objective verifiable evidence neutral to whether God exists or not.

nPeace · Nov 24, 2018

Jose Fly said:
I've asked you three or four times now what question you want me to answer and you completely refuse to say, while at the same time complaining that I won't answer this unknown question.

At this point it's obvious that all this is nothing more than a diversion tactic on your part, allowing you to not have to address the issues I've brought up. If this really were about a question you wanted me to answer, you would've said what the question was a long time ago.

So let this exchange serve as a great example of the intellectual emptiness of creationism. If it had any actual validity, folks like you wouldn't need to resort to such obvious dishonesty when defending it.

I was going to just let you off, and accept that the way you are may be due to environment and association, but this won't work out.

Without going through the posts, I'll just point out the post where you lied. Here.

You said:
I answered "Good question. Since you creationists are the ones invoking it so often, you should probably figure that out." And then when I figured that that last set of questions were the ones you wanted me to answer, you said they weren't.

Here is the link you said that I said they weren't.
????????? Are you seriously asking me to explain how magic/God did it/miracles work? If so, you do realize that since you're the one invoking it, the responsibility to explain it falls on you, not me....right?

Does that question look anything like the questions here?
How would you know what is magic then? Would that not mean that you would have to be able to identify a supernatural act? How would you go about doing that?

I pointed you to the questions again, so there is really no excuse.
There really is no need to keep lying on people and manipulating their words, whether to avoid the truth, or to get some sort of... I don't even know why you do it.
However, I took you off ignore to give you another chance, but you seem to have no intention of changing, so I am putting you on ignore again... this time I won't be undoing it.

Good bye. I hope you do something about that habit before it gets you in serious trouble.

9-18-1 · Nov 24, 2018

I'll just drop a line here, since I find it amazing that people are *still* arguing over a biblical flood and Noah account.

The earth gets flooded on a cyclical basis. The age of Aquarius (which we are approaching) is denoted by the man with the pitcher of water. During this time, the polar caps melt and the earth is flooded. This happens once every ~24 000 years and is one of the ways in which the earth cleanses itself.

There was no historical Noah. There was no historical ark. The ark of Noah is the tree of life. It is constructed within the body (just as the tree of life applies to the human body) and is comprised of three levels: aziluth, briah, yetzirah which reside above assiah (malkuth; the physical creation). The framework of this tree (ark) is to be used to complete the work of Noah (Shem/Ham/Japheth) Abram/Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, and finally Christ. These are all "stations" on the tree of life which directly correlate and correspond to internal stages and/or initiations that happen within any/every being, depending on the level of his/her development.

This is the same mystery that was taught in Atlantis before they got wiped out.

To the people "believing" that there was an historical physical Noah that built a physical boat housing 2's and 7's of every physical animal and the physical earth was flooded...

...that is not the meaning of the mystery. At all.

Good day.

Jose Fly · Nov 24, 2018

nPeace said:
I was going to just let you off, and accept that the way you are may be due to environment and association, but this won't work out.

How utterly and completely bizarre.

nPeace: I'm not going to talk to you until you answer the question.

Jose: What question?

nP: Answer the question.

J: I'd be happy to, except that I don't know what question you're talking about. Could you restate it?

nP: I'm not doing anything until you answer the question.

J: I can't answer because I don't know what question you're talking about. Please restate it.

nP: That's enough. You're a liar and I'm putting you on ignore.

J:

Without going through the posts, I'll just point out the post where you lied. Here.

Um.....when I asked you if that was the question you wanted me to answer, you said "That was not the question."

Good bye. I hope you do something about that habit before it gets you in serious trouble.

I gotta say, you are definitely one of the weirdest people I've ever encountered online....and that's saying something. At this point I've concluded that there must be something going on here that I'm not aware of and the reason your posts are so odd is because....well, this is really just the best you can do and I have obviously been asking too much of you in our exchanges.

For that, I am truly sorry.

Subduction Zone · Nov 24, 2018

9-18-1 said:
I'll just drop a line here, since I find it amazing that people are *still* arguing over a biblical flood and Noah account.

The earth gets flooded on a cyclical basis. The age of Aquarius (which we are approaching) is denoted by the man with the pitcher of water. During this time, the polar caps melt and the earth is flooded. This happens once every ~24 000 years and is one of the ways in which the earth cleanses itself.

There was no historical Noah. There was no historical ark. The ark of Noah is the tree of life. It is constructed within the body (just as the tree of life applies to the human body) and is comprised of three levels: aziluth, briah, yetzirah which reside above assiah (malkuth; the physical creation). The framework of this tree (ark) is to be used to complete the work of Noah (Shem/Ham/Japheth) Abram/Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, and finally Christ. These are all "stations" on the tree of life which directly correlate and correspond to internal stages and/or initiations that happen within any/every being, depending on the level of his/her development.

This is the same mystery that was taught in Atlantis before they got wiped out.

To the people "believing" that there was an historical physical Noah that built a physical boat housing 2's and 7's of every physical animal and the physical earth was flooded...

...that is not the meaning of the mystery. At all.

Good day.

A whole new way of being wrong.

9-18-1 · Nov 24, 2018

Subduction Zone said:
A whole new way of being wrong.

Incoming thread to explain... please feel free to discuss there.

ecco · Nov 24, 2018

nPeace said:
I was going to just let you off,...
However, I took you off ignore to give you another chance, but you seem to have no intention of changing, so I am putting you on ignore again... this time I won't be undoing it.

Does that mean that he can say anything he wants to say about you knowing you can't read it? That seems to be self-defeating.

I'd sure want to see everything you, or anyone else, posts about me.

ecco · Nov 24, 2018

9-18-1 said:
I'll just drop a line here, since I find it amazing that people are *still* arguing over a biblical flood and Noah account.

The earth gets flooded on a cyclical basis. The age of Aquarius (which we are approaching) is denoted by the man with the pitcher of water. During this time, the polar caps melt and the earth is flooded. This happens once every ~24 000 years and is one of the ways in which the earth cleanses itself.

There was no historical Noah. There was no historical ark. The ark of Noah is the tree of life. It is constructed within the body (just as the tree of life applies to the human body) and is comprised of three levels: aziluth, briah, yetzirah which reside above assiah (malkuth; the physical creation). The framework of this tree (ark) is to be used to complete the work of Noah (Shem/Ham/Japheth) Abram/Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, and finally Christ. These are all "stations" on the tree of life which directly correlate and correspond to internal stages and/or initiations that happen within any/every being, depending on the level of his/her development.

This is the same mystery that was taught in Atlantis before they got wiped out.

To the people "believing" that there was an historical physical Noah that built a physical boat housing 2's and 7's of every physical animal and the physical earth was flooded...

...that is not the meaning of the mystery. At all.

Good day.

Two people gave your post a "funny" emoji. I thought it was posted seriously.

Could you clear this up?

Subduction Zone · Nov 24, 2018

ecco said:
Two people gave your post a "funny" emoji. I thought it was posted seriously.

Could you clear this up?

Sadly he did. Best to don oven mitts before clicking on the link:
The Ark of Noah

Evidences Supporting the Biblical Flood

Veteran Member

Fisker of men

Veteran Member

Veteran Member

Veteran Member

Veteran Member

Veteran Member

Veteran Member

Veteran Member

Fisker of men

Fisker of men

shunyadragon

Veteran Member

Active Member

Fisker of men

Veteran Member

Active Member

Veteran Member

Veteran Member

Veteran Member