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Featured Evidences Supporting the Biblical Flood

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by Hockeycowboy, Oct 17, 2018.

  1. Hockeycowboy

    Hockeycowboy Well-Known Member
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    Global Flood evidence:

    1.Vast herds, comprising perhaps millions of grazing animals, discovered within the muck fields by gold hunters in the Alaskan and Yukon regions. In the Siberian permafrost, a few have been discovered upright, with food (delicate flowers like buttercups, that only grow in temperate climates) discovered still unchewed in their mouths, like the Berezovka Mammoth. (They died instantly, not from a slow-moving ice age!)

    http://www.amendez.com/Noahs Ark Articles/NAS Worldwide Mammal Massacre.pdf

    The question is raised — and properly so: “How could a Global Flood cause such freezing temperatures?” Keep in mind, some of the water (not most...most were from the “vast springs” underneath the ground) came from above, from the atmosphere....the troposphere?...the mesosphere?...the stratosphere? The Bible doesn’t say, it is silent. (Maybe from all five.) But the waters above the Earth caused temperatures to be very mild, and pleasantly warm.... similar to a greenhouse effect, worldwide. (That’s why Adam & Eve could go naked, and be very comfortable.) Yes, the Bible indicates there were seasons, but apparently mild ones.

    All of that drastically changed, with the break in this canopy! Temperatures would drop suddenly!

    2.This project, completed by physics students of the University of Leicester, provides an interesting conclusion:

    https://www.news.com.au/technology/science/university-of-leicester-physics-students-says-noahs-ark-would-have-floated-with-two-each-of-35000-species-of-animal/news-story/a7e558bc25fecf8e2865867579f05479.

    And this one:

    Could Noah’s Ark Float? In Theory, Yes | Science | Smithsonian

    Further information:
    Noah’s Ark was the focus of a major 1993 scientific study headed by Dr. Seon Hong at the world-class ship research center KRISO, based in Daejeon, South Korea. Dr. Hong’s team compared twelve hulls of different proportions to discover which design was most practical. No hull shape was found to significantly outperform the 4,300-year-old biblical design. In fact, the Ark’s careful balance is easily lost if the proportions are modified, rendering the vessel either unstable, prone to fracture, or dangerously uncomfortable.
    The research team found that the proportions of Noah’s Ark carefully balanced the conflicting demands of stability (resistance to capsizing), comfort (“seakeeping”), and strength. In fact, the Ark has the same proportions as a modern cargo ship.


    The study also confirmed that the Ark could handle waves as high as 100 ft (30 m). Dr. Hong is now director general of the facility and claims “life came from the sea,” obviously not the words of a creationist on a mission to promote the worldwide Flood. Endorsing the seaworthiness of Noah’s Ark obviously did not damage Dr. Hong’s credibility.

    Dr. Seon Won Hong was principal research scientist when he headed up the Noah’s Ark investigation. In May 2005 Dr. Hong was appointed director general of MOERI (formerly KRISO). Dr. Hong earned a B.S. degree in naval architecture from Seoul National University and a Ph.D. degree in applied mechanics from the University of Michigan, Ann Arbor.

    3.Coupled with that, the dimensions of the Ark, a 6-to-1 ratio of length to width, and 10-to-1 ratio of length to height, are exactly what is needed for a non-powered vessel of that size to maintain stability! Only in the last 2 centuries have ship builders recognized that this ratio is perfect for non-powered barge-like ships to be seaworthy. This is powerful evidence supporting a literal interpretation: How could Moses have known, in recording the event, that Noah was given such ideal dimensions? Fortunate guessing?

    4.The numerous Flood legends (exceeding 250, one anthropologist says near 1,000), that share many similarities, some strikingly so, that indicates a common source.

    5.Furthermore, the Bible clearly states, in Psalms 104, that the Flood was the cause of Earth’s mountains reaching such great heights. (Due to the underground waters spewing upward, and the land settling downward.) This would mean the high mountainous ranges we have today, like the Alps, the Himalayas, the Andes, and others, did not exist before the Flood; they are relatively young in formation. Some were even underwater prior to the Flood — see #6. (Not that the rocks are young, but that the features they form, are new, geologically speaking. What do we see? We observe crisp, well-defined features! If these mountains were millions of years old, we would see weathered, rounded features, due to the extreme wind and other erosion forces that they constantly endure. But we don’t! (This evidence is the easiest of all the geological facts to see...yet to me the most overlooked.)

    6.[related to #5]The marine creatures discovered on the tops of many mountain ranges, even on Mt. Everest — gigantic clams, some measuring 5 feet or more across, found in the closed position, indicating (again) that these creatures experienced a catastrophic event, leading to their quick death. (Clams in natural death, die w/ their shells open.) All remain exposed....if they’re millions of years old, why aren’t they eroded, also? Because these particular ones died at the Flood!!

    7.Where did all the water go? Apparently, it’s still here, at the Earth. If we again take into account what Psalms 104 reveals — that it was the Flood that caused our current topography, the very high mountains and low valleys, then the Earth’s terrain was somewhat smoother than now. (And Genesis tells us, the highest mountain was covered by around 22 ft. of the water.) It’s been determined that if the Earth was smoothed out like a billiard ball, the present water in all the ocean and lake basins would cover the planet to a depth of 2.5 miles! More than enough.....yet, scientists have discovered even more water in the Earth’s mantle, estimated to be almost 10 times as much as exists on our surface! So, that presents no obstacle!

    8.The Chinese character for "boat" comprises three radically different symbols: 'vessel', 'mouth' (representing a person), and the number ''8'. Why is this significant? Because there were 8 people who survived the Flood in the Ark. Some ancient Semitic person thought the Flood Event was worthy enough, to incorporate it into their language, helping others to remember the Chinese word for boat. They didn't have a Bible to get the idea from, and I doubt Moses knew any Chinese people, to get his writing from!

    Are you of the mindset that, when reading about God causing a global Flood, you don’t think He’d use His power throughout other aspects of the event? Or afterwards? Does Jehovah God have to reveal / explain everything He does?


    I’ve presented a lot of evidence. Are you open-minded enough, to consider it now?

    EDIT: Well, it’s been over a day since I posted, and it’s obvious some simply aren’t open-minded enough; they are so biased even to the point where they attack the poster....me....rather than debate the evidence.

    Sad but expected.
     
    #1 Hockeycowboy, Oct 17, 2018
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2018
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  2. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist Veteran Member

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    Can you summarize a distinct connection between the biblical flood and the "flood" on earth?

    I know there is a huge desire to hook earthly events to biblical; but, to me, really, why? Do you (guys) need to prove you are right about what you believe? If it is fact, why would you want us to follow your belief it is factually true but not good for our wellbeing?

    I mean, we can syncronize a lot of events while others we know is fact, but its one thing to discuss it, and another to try to find proove between this and that when its simply not important (well, at least non abrahamic views so far I know).....

    Can you provide a distinct connection between earth events and the bible to where the bible to where it is more than copied events (like the building of The Church) but something specific to supernatural occurances between the events?

    That, and without the Bible, can you include what earth events took place that by itself would lead us to believe there is a supernatural cause without biblical references?

    Facts usually have multiple references from many different sources and not all from one study area. If everything has a foundation on the bible, it makes evidence very very bias.

    Just sayin'
     
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  3. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    It would help if you could use valid sources. Also that a large boat with too few species would float is not evidence for the Ark myth. You would need to show that such a boat would be seaworthy. In other words that it would not open up at the seams and sink.

    Lastly you cannot have scientific evidence for a concept if you do not put that concept in the form of a testable hypothesis.
     
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  4. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    And if you want to discuss these one at a time that would be the proper way to do so. A correction on the depth of the oceans if the Earth was "as flat as a billiard ball" it would be closer to 1.5 miles since the volume of the oceans are roughly 300 million cubic miles and the surface of the Earth is 200 million square miles. But that does not matter. The mountains that need to be covered are far older than mankind. You would need over five miles more water than is in the oceans to cover all of the mountains.
     
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  5. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist Veteran Member

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    Also
    Where in our historical and scientific records without the bible does it hint at adam and eve being around?

    Lets work backwards. Without the bible, can the events lead one to think there is a god involved in its orchestration?

    We cant even figure the specifics of people in the Cambian era. We are still studying about the Dineasours. How on earth does the bible support (and be in the position to support) scientific claims that scientists themselves are still studying?

    Whats the connection beyond syncronicity?

    Where is the ark?

    Believe me, Hocky. If they actually found Noah's Ark as clear as day as we found the moon it would no longer be a theory or hunt for validity of christian biblical claims.

    Why do you guys need physical historical proof of your beliefs?

    Is it a evangelical thing?

    Do Muslims look for validation of their claims, type of thing.
     
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  6. Evangelicalhumanist

    Evangelicalhumanist "Truth" isn't a thing...

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    Nothing even a little interesting in all that you wrote, but I'll consider just the first thought.

    Think about how quickly water must rise on a vast, open tundra, in order for something like a mammoth not to be able to finish chewing its buttercup and try to get out of the way. Rain, no matter how hard it pours, takes time to fill a wide area. To suppose it must be done as fast as you imply means that the water didn't "rain," but rather all dropped at once...billions of tons of water. And do you have any idea what that would do to even the strongest ark? Hint, think about the tsunami that destroyed Banda Aceh and so much else -- and that was a much, much smaller deluge than the one you propose.

    The ark, and all on it, would have been destroyed in an instant.

    I know you rely on belief, but trust me, reason works, too.
     
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  7. Hockeycowboy

    Hockeycowboy Well-Known Member
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    That's it, in a nutshell. Proving the Bible is accurate.

    And BTW, the Flood account is in Genesis, written way before Christianity. So it's really not a Christian thing. It's helping people see the Bible speaks truth in what it says. It also informs us of an Enemy, Jehovah God has, who is intent on misleading people.
     
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  8. Hockeycowboy

    Hockeycowboy Well-Known Member
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    Your concerns were Answered, if you'd read all of it.
    HINT: 'springs of the vast watery deep', ie., from below, not above.
     
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  9. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist Veteran Member

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    It isnt the true ;)

    But, that aside. Can the scientific history of the earths formation show god or any supernatural cause without the bible existing?

    Does it prove itself?
     
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  10. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    The problem is that it doesn't. At best you only have misinterpretations of evidence. You have no scientific evidence for the flood yet.

    'Scientific evidence is evidence which serves to either support or counter a scientific theory or hypothesis. Such evidence is expected to be empirical evidence and interpretation in accordance with scientific method. Standards for scientific evidence vary according to the field of inquiry, but the strength of scientific evidence is generally based on the results of statistical analysis and the strength of scientific controls.'

    Scientific evidence - Wikipedia

    Without a testable hypothesis you by definition cannot have any scientific evidence. You have to put your money where your mouth is and come up with a concept that is testable to see if it is wrong. If you can't think of a test that could possibly refute your beliefs all you have is a WAG.
     
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  11. Hockeycowboy

    Hockeycowboy Well-Known Member
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    Because, for the last 2 centuries, the veracity of the Bible has been under constant attack.
     
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  12. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    That is hardly an answer. There are no near surface "springs below" that could even come close to flooding the Earth. If you go deep you end up cooking Noah and company. And sources above would not do it if it was the atmosphere. The atmosphere can only hold a limited amount of water. If you go into space you once again cook Noah and family as a result.
     
  13. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    That is because we learned that there are many claims in the Bible that are false. It took an understanding of the sciences to do so. Right now it has gotten to the point that the only possible explanation is that God lied by covering up his dirty work.
     
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  14. Evangelicalhumanist

    Evangelicalhumanist "Truth" isn't a thing...

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    And for really quite excellent reasons! After all, "veracity" means "truth," and a lot of what the Bible says is simply not true. Even at the most metaphorical, you cannot make decent sense out of the Job or Ananais and Sapphira stories. They're simply repulsive.
     
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  15. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist Veteran Member

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    Under attack? By who? A victim? (Psychologically, thats all in your head. No one has attacked anyone just because they offer counter evidence to biblical claims. Theories are theories).

    That sounds..... gosh.. that sounds like you guys really really, really need the bible to be true and anyone who studies it and proves a different theory all of the sudden is attacking your faith.

    We have validity the moon exist but not everyone wants to go to the moon. We know The Buddha exists, but that doesnt mean the rest of non-buddhist will zombie over to shave their heads and meditate.

    You gotta have more than just synronizing a chain of events as fact to where the validity of this fact will have a positive influenced in every persons wellbeing.

    But, yeah, bible is under constant attack?

    How , what is that word, its a psychological term for people who believe they are always the victim and people following them etc. Their beliefs were justiifed but not all justifcations are fact.
     
    #15 Unveiled Artist, Oct 17, 2018
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2018
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  16. Tiapan

    Tiapan Grumpy Old Man

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    Simple question
    Where did all this supposed huge mass of water go after the flood?
    Do the maths, Volume of Flood Water = ((3(PI)Rearth+water^3/4 )-((3(PI)Rearth ^3/4 ), also water is less dense than rock and will always float on the surface of rock, ie it can't simply disappear "into" the earth, except at the very surface of the earth where porus sands and gravels allow gaps for water to sit, but this could not account for the volume of water supposed to be involved in "the Flood".
    If the myth was accurate we should therefore find a massive body of water about the size of the moon somewhere but I can't see it anywhere. The oceans have been roughly the same level +/- 100m since the cambrian era.
    I believe the flood myth was based on any of a number of local tectonic floods, breaches, volcanic eruptions,and tsunamis. The breaches of the Black Sea, North Sea, and Gibraltar breach, may all of appeared like a "World Flood" to the local neolithic human primitives of the time. Also where there Kangaroos and Koalas on the arc?
    As far as the flowers go, as mammoths eat these plants leaf,stem,flowers and seeds, is it possible that fresh plants grew from seeds in the mammoth corpses mouth during the spring thaw?
    Cheers
     
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  17. Hockeycowboy

    Hockeycowboy Well-Known Member
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    You're right about that, regarding the waters above the mantle...
    "Today there is about 1.4 billion cu km (326 million cu mi) of water on the earth. It covers more than 70 percent of the globe’s surface. The average depth of the oceans is 4 km (2.5 mi); average elevation of the land is only 0.8 km (0.5 mi) above sea level. If the earth’s surface was smoothed out, it would all be covered with water to a depth of 2,400 m (8,000 ft)."

    However,as I mentioned, there are waters up to 500 miles below the surface, the volume being estimated at 10 times whats in the oceans. They could have played a part. Don't know....but the water is there.
     
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  18. Hockeycowboy

    Hockeycowboy Well-Known Member
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    I didn't say, I was under attack!
     
  19. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    And that water has been there for billions of years. The Earth was formed by colliding planetoids that had water as part of their make up. There is no way to get that water out of back into the mantle. That water does not help your claims.
     
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  20. Hockeycowboy

    Hockeycowboy Well-Known Member
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    Interesting, that that's all you can say.

    Why don't you provide a counter argument, other than just saying, "you're wrong"?
    Because you can't find any other interpretation of the evidence that meets with scientific consensus.

    Only the Global Flood satisfactorily explains the evidence.

    But science can't accept that. Oh well....
     
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