I haven't known any personally. I have met people who were atheists because they didn't know what the heck "obey God" meant.
But perhaps it is possible to "obey God" unwittingly.
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Have you known anyone who was an atheist because they didn't want to obey god?
- Thread starter Sunstone
- Start date
A Vestigial Mote
Well-Known Member
For whatever reason, you seem to want to believe this, and desperately try and put this idea out there every chance you get... but no. The vast majority of atheists obey the main commandments of your bible anyway - NOT because they are a part of God's commands, but because they are the things even secular societies recognize as important. Granted, the first three commandments are nonsense, and you will never, ever find a secular society upholding things so specifically unimportant... but most of the commandments after that are pretty common sense items under the influence of the golden rule - that is, obvious if you have any empathy for your fellow man whatsoever. Religion does not have a monopoly on the idea of "doing what is good/right."
So... just try and tell me that I want to be an atheist so that I can "claim gods other than [yours]", or so I can "take the lord's name in vain" or so that I don't have to "observe the sabbath". 'Cause that's all you have left (of the commandments at least) that I don't already follow - and for far better reason than "The Bible said so".
The only atheists i know (and i know plenty) are atheist because there is nothing to show a god exists.
Rational Agnostic
Well-Known Member
It's not possible. If you believe that God punishes people for disbelieving in him, how in the world could you think you could "escape" him by not believing in him? Doesn't make any sense.
Thermos aquaticus
Well-Known Member
It makes as much sense as people not believing in Santa Claus because they hate Santa Claus, not to mention the list of Naughty and Nice people that Santa Claus keeps. Obviously, people don't believe in Santa Claus because they want to be naughty.
sealchan
Well-Known Member
To pick a barroom fight you only need to throw a random punch...
Russian troll tactics 101
Thermos aquaticus
Well-Known Member
If the only thing stopping christians from raping and pillaging their entire town is their belief in God, then I am grateful that they are christians. For me and other atheists, we have the ability to reason and empathize which gives us a very practical and useful sense of morality. Perhaps christians lack those qualities.
Paradox22
I'm only Hume ian
Yes, I've read something similar to that. Frankly, it infuriates me, especially when they find a quote somewhere of a famous atheist that actually said something similar.
Jay M. Brewer
New Member
The only individuals I suspect of this are homosexuals who are or claim to be atheist. Although the suspicion may be falsely held for the most part, there is an intuition that it holds or at least rings true for some.
outlawState
Deism is dead
I would concur that people don't usually become atheists to escape any demands a god might put on them, although it happens rather a lot with Catholics, who confuse the demands of God with the demands of the RC church.
For many it's rather that they always were atheists from birth and they really quite prefer being atheists because atheism is compatible with their lifestyle, which in my own experience, can be depraved morally speaking and far worse than the lifestyles of the religious (any religion excluding Islam).
So I don't buy the idea of the "moral" atheist. One can protest religious idiosyncracies from a position of belief in God, as Christ himself did to the utmost, in condeming the Jews. There is no moral justification for the atheist in condemning the hypocrisy of others. The sins of others don't justify your own sins. Adoption of atheism invariably goes hand in hand with making a god out of moral libertinism or hedonism. I can vouch for that out of personal experience, as I should think most could.
For many it's rather that they always were atheists from birth and they really quite prefer being atheists because atheism is compatible with their lifestyle, which in my own experience, can be depraved morally speaking and far worse than the lifestyles of the religious (any religion excluding Islam).
So I don't buy the idea of the "moral" atheist. One can protest religious idiosyncracies from a position of belief in God, as Christ himself did to the utmost, in condeming the Jews. There is no moral justification for the atheist in condemning the hypocrisy of others. The sins of others don't justify your own sins. Adoption of atheism invariably goes hand in hand with making a god out of moral libertinism or hedonism. I can vouch for that out of personal experience, as I should think most could.
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Jay M. Brewer
New Member
This might be true for some Christians, as admittedly some Christians are evil people that to their credit dislike their mentality and use God to try to become good (rather than use religion to excuse and further their evil). These Christians see God as a supernatural cure that can change their psychology. But let's not generalize: there are a greater number of Christians who naturally empathize, love, and have concern for others and the world.
An aside: Atheism is not completely based in reason. When one thinks about it, it is rather irrational when it comes to the origin and nature of consciousness, and relies heavily upon an inscrutable existence-magic.
Altfish
Veteran Member
Are you serious??
Altfish
Veteran Member
Have you never met or spoken to an atheist? The whole of that post is an insult! How dare you call me not moral. What depraved things do you think I do?
I have more morals, as do most of my atheist friends than 90% of the religious people I know.
I do not condemn homosexuals, I don't deny women equal rights and choices, I don't seek forgiveness by bowing and invoking an invisible being. If I mess up, I face up to the consequences, apologise to the person and accept the blame. No 'Hail Marys' or similar for me.
You need to get a life and meet people outside the box, you give religion a bad name.
Sorry for the rant but what you said was despicable and if that is what religious people really think then you are more hateful than any atheist I know.
Jay M. Brewer
New Member
As a heart attack.
Altfish
Veteran Member
Atheism isn't based on anything. And sorry to shout but...
ATHEISM IS JUST A REJECTION OF GOD(S).
Atheism says nothing about the person. Atheism has no guide lines, no rules, no creed. Now if you were to call me a Humanist, then all of a sudden that does come with guide lines and rules. But Humanism is a subset of Atheism.
Altfish
Veteran Member
Very sad
exchemist
Veteran Member
I suppose, trying to be as fair as possible to the person actually alleged this on a recent thread, there may be people who had a religious upbringing but rebelled against some of the doctrines and, as a result of this, questioned their faith more and more and finally became atheist.
This could conceivably look, to an adherent of the faith the person has left, as if they did so to "escape" the doctrines they had rebelled against. But actually that would a false conclusion, as the intellectual journey to atheism, as opposed to mere rebellion against a teaching, involves a far more fundamental philosophical decision.
I think it suits some religious people to claim atheists are trying to escape the demands of God as it enables them to judge them morally, allowing them to invoke the power of the devil, depict them as evil, threaten them with eternal damnation, and so on and so forth. This seems to be important to some Protestants especially.
Jay M. Brewer
New Member
Er, atheism is a rejection of gods, but this rejection doesn't exist in a vacuum. It carries a cosmogony holding that consciousness must rely on the physical brain to exist and that reality external to consciousness consists of energy in the form of fundamental particles, with these particles magically capable of producing consciousness. Consciousness is believed to magically wink out of existence at death, while energy is inexplicably eternal. Like I said, irrational relation between consciousness and non-consciousness and irrational belief that things can come into existence from nonexistence and vice versa in the absence of gods.
Altfish
Veteran Member
Sorry but that is rubbish!
Trying to unpick the 'big' words you use...
IIRC Cosmogony is the science of the beginnings of the universe. I don't believe it says anything about consciousness or the physical brain, although maybe you can infer it??
Most atheists do not think about magical particles producing consciousness. All they considered is a simple question...
"Is there evidence for a god?" YES or NO? In becoming an atheist you come down on the NO side.
It does exist in a vacuum, although it may then lead to more questions like, "Why the hell do these god believers get tax breaks?", "Why cannot a person in US not get elected unless he /she believes in this mythical being?", "Why does my national anthem invoke God?"
But being an atheist is simple, not believing in gods.
exchemist
Veteran Member
Not "magically". What's the big deal with consciousness? So far as I can see, consciousness is simply the activity of the brain, the functioning of the operating system of the "computer", if you like. There is no reason at all to consider the "consciousness" of either human beings or other organisms plays a role in cosmogony. What a ludicrously anthropocentric notion!
And there is nothing "irrational" in working on the basis of Ockham's Razor, so far as I can see, either. In other words, do not invoke hypotheses for which there is no evidence.