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Eternal Hell, Scripture or ignorant theory?

T

Truth101

Member
TlcMel said,

Then Dan, if it's only a concept of being separated from God, then how do you explain the following?

1. Jesus described hell as a place where there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth (Matthew 8:12).
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There is no doubt this time is in anguish but the question is, "Is hell a place of anguish FOREVER AND EVER?". Is hell itself the same as the lake of fire? Is all mention of judgment in the new testament the same as the great white (not black) throne judgment, and if not what is the different?
2. The rich man who found himself in torment was both eternally consigned there without any hope (Luke 16:26), and was suffering (16:23 “lifted up his eyes, being in torment”).
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I believe a deeper study of the parable of the rich man and Lazarus will clear up your understanding of this having anything to do with a literal man burning in literal fire compared to a literal man being comforted in a literal heaven. The fact that you say at the end of this post that it sounds like it SHOULD be taken literally, shows that most of your understanding of the whole message in scripture must be a literal one inspite of Jesus saying "the words I speak are SPIRIT". If you want a flawless explanation of this parable (which is too long for me to post here) use the link provided.
http://bible-truths.com/lazarus.html. Lazarus represents the gentiles and the rich man represents the Judah and his 5 brothers just to give you a heads up.
3.
Jesus said that the fire described in hell is unquenchable (Mark 9:43), yet if hell is temporary or annihilation, then the fire is eventually quenched. Jesus further noted, “where their worm does not die, and the fire is not quenched” (Mark 9:44,46,48). Clearly, Jesus is warning us against anyone who would tell us that the suffering in hell is temporary, eventually ends, or is non-existent.
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If one thing is learned in life it should be the fact that when something is opposed to one needs only to study indepth the oppositions views before making any claims. A defence lawyer must look into every fascet of evidence that the prosecution has in order to properly defend his client. I know if I was being the one defended I would not want a lazy lawyer defending me who was just out to get the job done. You really need to look over the whole thread or at least take some advice which would give you a better understanding as to why I believe along with others in this world in the unviversal redemption of all mankind. Otherwise like bibleonly and I just begin slinging mud back and forth with no conlusion in sight. If you are a serious bible student with the truth being your primary goal than you need to learn that theres more to the bible than meets the eye (carnally). Here are links to 2 sites. I have found them to be the most compelling writings avainlable today on scriptural understanding. These are not oppinions and traditional idols of the heart. You will find nothing but scripture on these sites and nothing less than understanding of spiritual things. http://www.bible-truths.com/
http://www.iswasandwillbe.com/strongdelusion.php
4. The wicked end up consigned with the devil and his angels (Matthew 25:41) and this condition is called “eternal punishment” (Matthew 25:46). In addition, the suffering of the devil and all his followers is pictured as conscious suffering that never ends, “and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever” (Revelation 20:10). 5. The Holy Spirit speaking through Peter described wicked people as presently being under punishment (2 Peter 2:9).
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I really hate to always post links in a page but I have learned that these forums make it impossible to clarify anything with the amount of space given. So with that being said I offer you another link concerning these words eternity and forever and ever and everlasting. http://bible-truths.com/aeonion.htm. I would also like to note that 2 Peter 2:9 is quite far from saying anything about the present condition of wicked people, he is stating a fact that God knows how to deliver the ungodly from temptation and reserve the ungodly unto the day of judgment to be (future tense) punished.
I'll have to admit, i haven't read this whole thread in it's entirety, but look how scary that sounds!!!! It's HORRIFIC!:eek: I mean, it sound like as if were to be taken literally!

I think i''m gonna go pray now!:run: :shout
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You should really take a couple of days off this forum and do a little study on these links I have offered. If you are seriously in search for the truth and you are confident in what you believe than you should have nothing to worry about concerning these links. You will ask yourself how you could have never seen these things before. God has sent a strong delusion and none will escape it with the exeption of His elect only by His spirit and grace. You need to find out what this strong delusion really is.

God Bless, Dave
 
B

bibleonly

Member
truth101, said….The theolgy of eternal punishment merely opens up a pandoras box of confusion and deception.

To say that the Bible doesn’t speak about eternal punishment breeds contempt for the suffering of Christ. Christ’s suffering is reduced to a physical punishment that a mere mortal could endure. What need then of a Savior? If mortal men could satisfy the payment, then Christ’s suffering is worthless.

Without realizing it, truth101 has devised a scheme so that men also can save themselves (pay for their own sins after they suffer for awhile and have paid the penalty they will be released).

So if you take this doctrine to it final conclusion, then Christ is not needed, because ultimately according to truth101, even if you didn’t trust in Jesus as your savior, (since the penalty is only temporary) your own suffering will be acceptable, therefore you didn’t need the blood of Christ to cover you from the wrath of God.

The confusion is based on truth101’s deception, that there is no eternal retribution for sin. That’s the can of worms that has opened. By handling the Word of God deceitfully, then knowing whom the real Savior is, one would be confused.



As previously pointed out this is a doctrine of devils to believe that you shall not surely die the second death, which is eternal damnation. This was the deception that Satan conned Eve into believing. Genesis 3:4:
And the serpent said to the woman, you shall not surely die:

What will happen is that those that believe that there is not eternal judgment to be accounted for will find out that the Liar whom they trusted cannot save them. (His lies will not set them free).

Jeremiah 11:10
10 They are turned back to the iniquities of their forefathers, which refused to hear my words;(they believe a lie) and they went after other gods to serve them: (Satan, who lied from the beginning) the house of Israel and the house of Judah (members of the corporate church) have broken my covenant which I made with their fathers.
: 11 Therefore thus saith the LORD, Behold, I will bring evil upon them, which they shall not be able to escape; (there’s no escape why? Because this evil is eternal damnation and it forever) and though they shall cry unto me, (they will cry forever and ever) I will not hearken unto them. (God will never hear their weeping and gnashing of teeth).
12 Then shall the cities of Judah and inhabitants of Jerusalem go (members of the corporate church) and cry unto the gods (Satan) unto whom they offer incense: (they worship Satan’s lies which said, that they shall not surely die) but they shall not save them (just because they don’t believe in eternal damnation, that doctrine will not save them) at all in the time of their trouble. (That trouble is referring to judgment day)
 
T

Truth101

Member
Much like most Christians Bibleonly has accepted the truth of the sacrifice of Christ and as Paul states has remained there and only knows "Christ and Him crucified". There is a whole other side of the coin that is more ignored than anything else in Christian theology...that is CHRIST RISEN. The sacrifice is only half the story. It was of a nescessity that He died in order to be RISEN. And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins. It was not His sacrifice that washes away sins, it is in His resurrection that all sin is washed away. And how is this possible? If we be raised in Him we too shall be like Him. We who are raised with Him spiritually in this life are a type of firstfruits nessescitating a last fruits. If there is a first there must also of nessescity be more to come. Bible only (like other Christians) have experienced the beginning of the feast of firstfruits but he refuses to grow in that. The feast of fisrtfruits is also known as the wavesheaf offering.
Lev 23:10 Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, When ye be come into the land which I give unto you, and shall reap the harvest thereof, then ye shall bring a sheaf of the firstfruits of your harvest (OF THE FULL HARVEST)unto the priest:
Lev 23:11 And he shall wave the sheaf before the LORD, to be accepted for you: on the morrow after the sabbath the priest shall wave it.
Lev 23:12 And ye shall offer that day when ye wave the sheaf a he lamb without blemish of the first year for a burnt offering unto the LORD.
This is the first of many. If Bible only would only look into the study of the feasts he will learn that there is more to the scriptures than just Christ and Him crucified. The elect are the the firstfruits with Christ and are invited to the feast of the firstfruits (kingdom age). No others will enter this age because it is for the firstfruits that have been made whole (ripe for harvest) in their lifetime through the trials and tribulations whom the Lord has used to purify them. They have been prepared before the foundation of the world to be vessels of honor.
Of course Bibleonly and most Christians will not, neither CANNOT accept this truth because they do not have eyes to see and ears to hear WHAT THE SPIRIT IS SAYING. I have no ill feelings toward any of Gods children (carnal babes in Christ) who cannot see past Christ and Him crusified. I know that it is by the foolishness of preaching that I may help some to see and this is not of myself but of God who working in me to do HIS will, not the will of carnal human reasoning.
Understand that there are many feasts in scripture and they all have their predestined time in history. The wave sheaf offering has taken place and those who are accepted (chosen) by this offering will enter the feast of the firstfruits now and in the millenial kingdom (not eternal kingdom or finallity of Gods plan). They are feasting and digesting the truth of the word by the spirit of Christ and they will with Christ, lead the rest of mankind into the full fall harvest,
1Co 15:23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
1Co 15:24 Then cometh the end (what happens in the end?), when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
1Co 15:25 For he must reign, till (This kingdom reigns TILL, not forever) he hath put all enemies under his feet.
1Co 15:26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
1Co 15:27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him,itis manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.(So if not all things are subdued TO HIM and under Him than it would be manifest that He who put all things under Him is NOT accepted)
1Co 15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

Now, Have I stated that man can be washed clean through his own punishment as Bibleonly insists I am saying? Certainly not. The elect are being perfected (by God) in their flesh that when they see Christ they will be like Him. We are to grow and be as Christ and this is our testimony that we believe (by works). Doing the will of God is how we will enter the kingdom not by mere verbal expressions. Now, does this mean that no others will find their cleansing? In no way. God is not a respecter of persons. He has predestinated and ordained and made the vessels of honor and will not leave the rest who are without the grace of God. We are either perfected and made whole in this life by the grace of God through Christ or we are perfected and made whole through the WHITE (not black) throne judgement "as through fire". Not literal fire burning people. The carnal mind has spawned the most atrocious concepts of Gods love it wouls be sickening if God Himself did not send this strong delusion. Over all it is NOT....let me say it again.......NOT OF OURSELVES. Absolutley nothing is of ourselves. It is all by the grace of God both vessils of honor and dishonor. Our trial by fire and our victory or failure is by the grace of God and not of our own works. The works and faith and love all comes from God so ultimately nothing is of ourselves. Christ made it all possible.
Bibleonly would have all believe that it is I who believe that man can save himself but it is the doctrine of Christianity and Bibleonly that have spawned any idea as this. They believe that those who believe and accept Christ are saved to bliss because of their faith and belief while all other who apparently choose otherwise will be tormented in literal fire for all eternity. Well obviously their doctrine of salvation is one of self and what one does to be saved not by what Christ alone did or moreover is doing and will do. Torment in a literal lake burning them forever and ever without mercy because they did not choose nor could they, Christ. The lost in this world cannot recieve because it is not for them to understand but unto the elect it is given to know the truth of the gospil. So they make God out to be more of a monster than any montser hollywood can come up with. To bibleonly God first creates man and predestinates some to be vessils of honor and some to dishonor then ultimately sends the vessels of dishonor to a pit of torment with no mercy for all eternity. The truth is that God will make whole all of His creation and the theology of eternal torment in hell shall not prevail against it.


God Bless, Dave
 
B

bibleonly

Member
Much like most Christians Bibleonly has accepted the truth of the sacrifice of Christ and as Paul states has remained there and only knows "Christ and Him crucified".

Truth101, continues to twist the scripture to his own confusion.

Case in point, Paul in 1Cor. 2:3: said:
And I, brethren, when I came to you, came not with excellency of speech or of wisdom, (doctrines that man’s wisdom teaches i.e. you shall not surely die the second death, which is eternal damnation) or of wisdom, declaring unto you the testimony of God (teaching what the Word of God the Bible has declared, comparing scripture with scripture). For I determined not to know any thing among you, except Jesus Christ, and him crucified. (The only thing that was of paramount importance was Christ and Him crucified).

Paul determined not to know any thing else, notice 1Cor. 1:24:
But we preach Christ crucified, to the Jews it’s a stumbling block, and to the Greeks foolishness: (which is foolishness to truth101).
25 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; (the understanding of Christ crucified i.e. Christ, who came under the eternal wrath of God to pay for the sins of the elect, is wiser than the teaching of no eternal retribution) and the weakness of God is stronger than men.

Again in Gal.2: 20:
I am crucified with Christ: (since I was crucified with Christ, this guarantees that I will not be sent to the lake of fire, which is the second death, I have experience the second death in Christ, which satisfied the demands of the Law, in the day you eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall surely die, which is the second death, being cast into the lake of fire, eternal damnation) nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ lives in me: (I live, because I was resurrected with Christ, which is the first resurrection) However, I first had to die or be crucified with Christ. Maybe that why Paul was so determined not to know anything except Christ and Him crucified. Until the eternal wrath of the Law was satisfied there would never be a resurrection. But because Christ, who is eternal God and who only could experience the equivalency of the eternal wrath of God.

Rev. 2:11:
He that has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit say’s to the churches; He that overcomes shall not be hurt of the second death. (Why won’t they be hurt? Because they were crucified with Christ, the Laws demands were assuaged and completely appeased the eternal fire of the Law’s wrath)

Rev.20: 6:
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: (nevertheless I live; experience the resurrection in Christ, I have become a new creature in Christ) on such the second death hath no power, (because I have already experience eternal damnation in Christ, the second death has no power, I won’t have to be cast into the lake of fire that burns and it shall not be quench. Why? Because, I was crucified with Christ) what a beautiful gospel of salvation that God has provided for them that love him. but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
 
B

bibleonly

Member
truth101, said:...There is a whole other side of the coin that is more ignored than anything else in Christian theology..

Again truth101, doesn’t know the scriptures. 1Cor.15:3:
For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; (the first point, Christ experienced the second death, which is eternal in nature) And that he was buried, (the second point, Christ was buried, it was finished, the Law's eternal wrath had completed it eternal fury, the payment for the eternal punishment because of sin was accomplished) and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: (the third point, because Christ endured the full cup of the wrath of the Laws demands, God then resurrected Christ’s body as evidence that God’s salvation was complete for the chosen.

It’s not a coin; it’s a threefold cord that is not broken.
 
B

bibleonly

Member
truth101, said:....that is CHRIST RISEN. The sacrifice is only half the story. It was of a nescessity that He died in order to be RISEN.
And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.

1Cor. 15:12:
12 Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead? (After hearing the preaching of Paul, there were still those among them that believe there was no resurrection at all.)
13 But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen: (So Paul concludes if you don’t believe in the resurrection of the dead, then the next logical conclusion is that you must believe that Christ never was resurrected.)
14 And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain. (So if you carry out this false doctrine, that there is no resurrection at all to its final conclusion, then you are still in your sins. Why? It’s not because as truth101 would have you believe, that you only have half the story. No, that not the reason why your yet in your sins, its because you believe that there is no resurrection at all.
15 Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not.(In fact if your doctrine of no resurrection is true, then Paul say’s that he is a false witnesses)
16 For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised: (Again, the third time, if you hold onto the teaching that there is no resurrection, then you have to conclude that Christ was never resurrected.
17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins. (And if that’s your conclusion, then you are still in your sins)


The same point can be applied to the false doctrine that there is no eternal damnation.

If you don’t believe in eternal damnation, then the next logical conclusion is that you must believe that Christ never paid or experience the second death (eternal damnation) for the sake of the elect.
So if you carry out this false doctrine, (that there is no eternal damnation at all) to its final conclusion, then you are still in your sins. Why? It’s because you believe Christ never paid or experience the second death, (which is what the Law of God demands for the payment for sin.)
 
B

bibleonly

Member
truth101, said:....It was not His sacrifice that washes away sins, it is in His resurrection that all sin is washed away.

LOOK, that is truth101 conclusion, he say’s it not the sacrifice that washes or pays for sin. Why does he say that, because he doesn’t believe that Christ suffered the second death (eternal damnation). So, he falsely brings in the idea that the resurrection is what pays for sin.

When the Bible declares in Hebrews 9:22:
22 …without shedding of blood is no remission. (The word remission means to pardon, forgiveness, and to set free.)

What was required so that God could forgive sin?
What needed to be accomplished for the Law of God to pardon sin?
The answer is the shedding of blood. Whose blood must be shed? Christ’s blood.

Matthew 26:28:
28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins. (Payment for sins, forgiveness of sins)


Revelation 1:5:
5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood, (truth101, said:It was not His sacrifice that washes away sins, his statement is a complete contradiction of scripture.)
Christ indeed washed us from our sins in his own blood (The phrase in his own blood points us to his sacrifice.

The same point that there is no resurrection can be applied to the false doctrine that Christ’s sacrifice doesn’t wash away sins.
If you don’t believe that Christ’s sacrifice doesn’t wash away sins, then the next logical conclusion is that you must believe that Christ blood never wash away sins.

So if you carry out this false doctrine, (that Christ’s blood didn’t wash away sins) to its final conclusion, then you are still in your sins. Why? It’s because you believe Christ’s blood never wash away sins, (which is what the Law of God demands for the remission of sin.)
 
T

Truth101

Member
truth101, said:....It was not His sacrifice that washes away sins, it is in His resurrection that all sin is washed away.
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Bibleonly said...LOOK, that is truth101 conclusion, he say’s it not the sacrifice that washes or pays for sin. Why does he say that, because he doesn’t believe that Christ suffered the second death (eternal damnation). So, he falsely brings in the idea that the resurrection is what pays for sin.

When the Bible declares in Hebrews 9:22:
22 …without shedding of blood is no remission. (The word remission means to pardon, forgiveness, and to set free.)
Click to expand...
Here again we see the flaw in bibleonly's interpretation, as well the false conclusion in declaring my error.
To pay for and to wash sin is two seperate things. We are first forgiven of our sins through the sacrifice of Christ which all men recieve. Then we are sanctified by His resurrection and life. It is in our obedience that we are santified. We are first forgiven and this is due to the shedding of blood but the cleansing of all unrighteousness comes from the resurrection which is a process of events throughout our lives, not instantanious.
Bibleonly misrepresents everything that is said for the simple pleasure of pointing out error that is not there and then attempting to correct it with pages of rhetoric which really do not find its conclusion in truth.
Rom 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved (healed) byhislife.
When we first come to the knowledge of the truth we come seeking forgiveness. Once we become aware of the truth of the sacrifice of Christ we gain assurance of salvation but we are to grow in that. So, much more than just being reconciled by His death we are to walk in the life of Christ. We are to crucify our own flesh and take up our cross and follow Him and it is in this that we will find our santification (cleansing of sin).
Bible only puts the cart before the horse and then eliminates the horse all together. To him he believes that all is found in Christ's crucifiction when we are told right here that there is "much more". We shall be cleansed through His life.
This is my point, that Bibleonly has not grown and refuses to grow any further than Christ and Him crucified then accuses me of error.
I pray that God removes the scales of pride from Bibleonly's eyes so he can see that His understanding is one of a carnal nature.
Paul declared that these are carnal babes in Christ and should be teachers by now but are still in need of the milk of the word.

Dave
 
B

bibleonly

Member
truth101, said:.... The feast of fisrtfruits is also known as the wavesheaf offering.
Lev 23:10 Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, When ye be come into the land which I give unto you, and shall reap the harvest thereof, then ye shall bring a sheaf of the firstfruits of your harvest (OF THE FULL HARVEST)unto the priest:
Lev 23:11 And he shall wave the sheaf before the LORD, to be accepted for you: on the morrow after the sabbath the priest shall wave it.
Lev 23:12 And ye shall offer that day when ye wave the sheaf a he lamb without blemish of the first year for a burnt offering unto the LORD.
This is the first of many. If Bible only would only look into the study of the feasts he will learn that there is more to the scriptures than just Christ and Him crucified.

Let’s look at these feasts and how they relate to salvation.
First we find that God speaks of three harvests. We shall discover that these three harvests can be identified with the three seasons of rain described in Joel 2:23.
23 Be glad then, ye children of Zion, and rejoice in the LORD your God: for he hath given you the former righteous rain, and he will cause to come down for you the rain, the former rain, and the latter rain in the first month.

In Leviticus 23:10, 11 the Bible tells of the first harvest of firstfruits:
10 Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, When ye be come into the land which I give unto you, and shall reap the harvest thereof, then ye shall bring a sheaf of the firstfruits (Hebrew “rehith”) of your harvest unto the priest:
11 And he shall wave the sheaf before the LORD, to be accepted for you: on the morrow after the sabbath the priest shall wave it.


These verses speak of a time of harvest when the firstfruits are brought to the priest and waved before the Lord.

These firstfruits are distinguished from the firstfruits that would be brought in after 50 days at Pentecost by calling them by the Hebrew word re****h.

The firstfruits that were brought in at Pentecost were called by the Hebrew word bikkur.

The time this harvest (re****h, firstfruits) was to take place was when Israel first came into the land of Canaan. It was a harvest that they did not plant. It was produce that was already there when they came into the land of Canaan.

In Joshua 4:19 we read
19 And the people came up out of Jordan on the tenth day of the first month, and encamped in Gilgal, in the east border of Jericho.

Israel crossed the Jordan River into the land of Canaan on the tenth day of the first month

Joshua 5:10:
10 And the children of Israel encamped in Gilgal, and kept the Passover on the fourteenth day of the month at even in the plains of Jericho.


Israel then kept the Passover Feast four days later on the fourteenth day of the month.

It would have been at that time, therefore, that this first harvest took place.

This harvest was also called "the first [re****h] of the firstfruits [bikkur]"

This first harvest of firstfruits(Hebrew “rehith”) took place at the Passover When ye be come into the land…and kept the Passover on the fourteenth day of the month. So then the first harvest clearly is identifies with the Passover.
 
B

bibleonly

Member
The Second harvest of firstfruits is identified with Pentecost.
Now in Exodus 23:19:
19 The first of the firstfruits (bikkur) of thy land thou shalt bring into the house of the LORD thy God.

This was a harvest of firstfruits that anticipated the Pentecostal harvest of firstfruits (bikkur) that came 50 days later.

Leviticus 23:15-17 speaks of this Pentecostal harvest:

15 And ye shall count unto you from the morrow after the sabbath, from the day that ye brought the sheaf of the wave offering; seven sabbaths shall be complete:
16 Even unto the morrow after the seventh sabbath shall ye number fifty days; and ye shall offer a new meat offering unto the LORD.
17 Ye shall bring out of your habitations two wave loaves of two tenth deals: they shall be of fine flour; they shall be baken with leaven; they are the firstfruits (bikkur) unto the LORD.
These verses are speaking of Pentecost, which came 50 days after the Passover.


Pentecost is also spoken as the feast of harvest, the firstfruits (bikkur) of thy labors Exodus 23:16:
16 And the feast of harvest, the firstfruits (bikkur) of thy labours, which thou hast sown in the field: and the feast of ingathering, which is in the end of the year, when thou hast gathered in thy labours out of the field.


Please note the Hebrew word firstfruits concerning the Pentecostal harvest is a different word from the Hebrew word "firstfruits" used in Leviticus 23:10, 11, which describes the earliest harvest that was identified with the Passover.
 
B

bibleonly

Member
A third harvest is also spoken of and it is called the feast of ingathering,
This harvest was never described as firstfruits

Which was at the end of the year. Exodus 23:16:
16 …and the feast of ingathering, which is in the end of the year, when thou hast gathered in thy labours out of the field.

This feast was also called the feast of tabernacles and was observed at the time of the final harvest.

The Bible simply describes it as a feast of ingathering at the end of the year.

These three harvests were so important that God declared in Deuteronomy 16:16:
16 Three times in a year shall all thy males appear before the LORD thy God in the place which he shall choose; in the feast of unleavened bread, and in the feast of weeks, and in the feast of tabernacles: and they shall not appear before the LORD empty:

The feast of unleavened bread began with the Passover when "the first [re****h] of the first fruits [bikkur]" were brought "into the house of the Lord thy God."
Then the feast of weeks that was observed 50 days later and then the feast of tabernacles or ingathering.
 
B

bibleonly

Member
Christ, the First Harvest Coming from the Early Righteous Rain

We must remember a harvest is a consequence of rain. We can see the beautiful parallel that exists between the rain of Joel 2:23 and these three harvests.



First there will be the early rain called the righteous rain in Joel 2:23.
23 Be glad then, ye children of Zion, and rejoice in the LORD your God: for he hath given you the former righteous rain, and he will cause to come down for you the rain, the former rain, and the latter rain in the first month.
This first early righteous rain must be identified with the Gospel as God ministered it to national Israel, beginning with Abraham and ending with Christ being announced as the Lamb of God.
The harvest that resulted from this first early righteous rain was the Lord Jesus Himself. When John the Baptist announced, "behold the Lamb of God that taketh away the sins of the world" he was announcing that the Passover Lamb had come.

The first of the first fruits had arrived.

The announcement that Jesus the Passover Lamb was here effectively declared that the first early righteous rain had done its work.

It had brought the Lord Jesus into the world as the Passover Lamb. He was the harvest that must come before the early and latter rain that would follow could come.

It is Jesus who is the first fruits that we read about in I Corinthians 15:23:
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
The re****h firstfruits of the Old Testament typified him. He is also the firstfruits that we read about in Romans 8:23:
23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.
 
B

bibleonly

Member
The Pentecostal Harvest Coming from the Early Rain identifies with second feast the harvest of firstfirsts that began the Church age.

This early harvest when the first (re****h) of the firstfruits, Christ Himself, has been brought in is followed by the second harvest.

It too, is called a harvest of firstfruits (bikkur). But as we learned in the Old Testament, a different Hebrew word was used for the first of the firstfruits that identified with Christ as the Passover from the firstfruits identified with the Pentecost.

This second harvest, in which the firstfruits identified with the Pentecost is brought in, is pointing to the entire New Testament church age.

It began with the Pentecost in A.D. 33 when about 3,000 individuals became saved in one afternoon.

It was a product of the early rain that came after the first early righteous rain that had brought Christ as the Passover Lamb.

This Pentecostal rain of the Gospel in the entire world continued for more than 1900 years.

It produced churches and congregations all over the world as external evidence of the existence of the kingdom of God.

All of those who became saved as these churches preached the Gospel were the firstfruits. Fact is, in James 1:18:
18 Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.

The believers are called firstfruits.
There were two kinds of firstfruits,
the first of the firstfruits and the Pentecostal firstfruits.
The church age was not the first (re****h) of the firstfruits (bikkur).
The churches were the Pentecostal firstfruits (bikkur).




Revelation 14:4: God speaks of the 144,000:
4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb (His sheep hear His voice) whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed (The Chosen whose sins Christ pay for) from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.
They identify with all those who have been saved during the church age.
They are called the firstfruits.
 
B

bibleonly

Member
truth101, said:.... This is the first of many. If Bible only would only look into the study of the feasts he will learn that there is more to the scriptures than just Christ and Him crucified.

What we have learned is that there were three feasts of harvest.
The first identified with Christ as the Passover Lamb and Him Crucified.

The Passover was identified with this harvest of firstfruits, because Christ is our Passover.

Christ is therefore, the first of the firstfruits, which identifies with the Passover.

Lev.23: 12:
12 And ye shall offer that day when ye wave the sheaf an he lamb without blemish of the first year for a burnt offering unto the LORD. (Look how beautifully the scriptures tie together; the first harvest of firstfruits has everything to do with eternal damnation.
Christ the Lamb of God who was without sin offered Himself a burnt offering, He experienced the Lake of Fire which is the second death or eternal damnation for the sins of His people)

The Second Harvest of firstfruits identifies with bringing in of the New Testament Church.
The church age was not the first (re****h) of the firstfruits (bikkur).
The churches were the Pentecostal firstfruits (bikkur).


3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins (Christ crucified as a Lamb burnt in the lake of fire denoting eternal damnation) according to the scriptures; (truth101, said:.... he will learn that there is more to the scriptures than just Christ and Him crucified. No, the scripture itself tells us that Christ died according to the scriptures)
4 And that he was buried, (His body of believers were buried with him)

Rom. 6:3:
3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were washed by Jesus Christ were washed by his death? (Again the death of Christ is what paid the price for eternal damnation and washed or sins away from the memory of God
4 Therefore we are buried with him through washing by death
5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, (if Christ we were crucified with Christ and was buried with Him) we shall be also of his resurrection: (they have experience the first resurrection)

Again Rev.20: 6:
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, (There is therefore now no condemnation to those that are in Christ Jesus) but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Rev. 1:5
5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, (Like the first of the firstfruits, Christ is the first one that was delivered of the Eternal Wrath of the Law, because He who is God, pay the eternal debt, because He is God) and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,
6 And hath made us kings and priests (they that Christ had with Him in His death and was buried with Him and was part of this resurrection are made kings and priest) unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.
 
B

bibleonly

Member
truth101, said:.... To pay for and to wash sin is two seperate things.
Rev.1:5:
5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washedus from our sins in his own blood,

Wash us from our sins in his own blood. This can only mean when he was crucified! And if at the cross then that were the washing of our sins was accomplish.
Hence payment for sins is the same as washed from sins, implying the same thing. Sins have been forgiven.

 
B

bibleonly

Member
truth101, said:.... We are first forgiven of our sins through the sacrifice of Christ which all men recieve.

Matthew 1:1: declares otherwise:
21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.
Christ didn’t offer Himself a sacrifice for all men, Jesus sacrifice was only for His people.
 
B

bibleonly

Member
truth101, said:.... Then we are sanctified by His resurrection and life.
It is in our obedience that we are santified.

You can only pick one.

Either we are sanctified by our obedience
OR
We are sanctified by His resurrection and Life
 
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