socharlie
Active Member
intuition
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Faith is not evidence. This is why atheism has more of an advantage.
- Thread starter Berlin
- Start date
Audie
Veteran Member
Seriously? What could be more obvious than that
"gods", "spirits" or whatever were concocted to explain the unknown?
This is not quite the same thing, but an acquaintance
spent a good many years in a native American community.
There were two hills nearby, in otherwise mostly flat country.
The story was that a giant had been carrying a big rock, but dropped it. It broke, the smaller hill actually looks as if it could have been the top of the bigger one.
I kinda dont think anyone saw it happen.
But everyone in the town knows about it.
My friends informant was an elder lady who said
her grandmother had thought up the story when
as a child she asked her grandmother how those
hills got there. It was only years later that she w as told that granny just made that up. But by then "everybody" knew it! And now it is true.
Parallels to such as Noahs ark, say, are of course,
unintended.
Naama
Chibi Lilith
?
But people have differing intuition about different things. And a lot of it has to do with how we are raised. I know I practice my religion because I was raised in it.
Yes, just as any religion of today is different than its precursors in the past. In case you weren't following the conversation, the OP was claiming nobody worships some of the historical Pagan gods anymore. This is simply untrue. They're under the mistaken impression that these practices have gone away. They have not. Contemporary Pagans approach worship of historical gods with varying concern for historical accuracy, but there's definitely still an active community that honors these traditions.
Audie
Veteran Member
Lots of everybody have closed minds.
Hardly anyone has a more closed mind than a YEC.
They will do just about anything to escape the realization that their faith is based on nonsense.
WalterTrull
Godfella
Yup. Thing is, it's not a real gap, just in our understanding. A whole bunch of qualities have been attributed to God. Don't know about them. My definition of God is what fills that gap. (Well, one of them)
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Naama
Chibi Lilith
Oh okay.
Yes I have many pagan friends, they just told me that their Paganism isn't as icky as a lot of Paganism of old.
I think the theory is that you, or mankind really, is incapable of faith on their own.
Kind of a axiom for some Christian beliefs. Folks who accept a axiom don't usually feel the need to justify it.
Kind of ends up being a catch 22 though. You believe because of God's grace. You don't belief because you lack God's grace. Either way God is a self-evident part of the equation. Kind of interesting how folks create truths to support what they already believe.
I respect your position but I see it rather more like two people looking at the same evidence and coming to two different interpretations.
As Rabbi Hirchel said:
G-d's Torah need not teach us that there is G-d: "The heavens relate the glory of G-d. And the expanse tells of the works of His hands" (Ps. 19). The overwhelming regularity governing the orbit of the firmament's immense multitude, the never-changing course of day and night, the mysterious laws of nature which tie earth with heaven, light and rain, life and growth-all, the smallest and the largest, reveal an Almighty Creator: for there is no "law" without a "Law-Giver."
This world is full of laws. Universal law of gravitation, Laws of planetary motion, Newton’s law of motion, Laws of thermodynamics, Theory of general relativity.
All of these laws would never have existed without the lawgiver God. Everything created with purpose.
A Vestigial Mote
Well-Known Member
I will always find it more correct to state that all we know is that the universe exists, and it exists with employment of the specific "laws" of functioning that we can/have discerned. Beyond that in this particular arena, we know nothing.
Sapiens
Polymathematician
The problem is that the Exodus can be definitively shown to be fictional, which reduces all the rest of your case to similar historical fiction and fable.
None of This Really Happened
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Audie
Veteran Member
Kinda like Flood that way.
Cary Cook
Member
Faith is not the substance of anything either.
I don't do faith - unless it is defined so broadly as to include all probability judgment. But I don't need faith (as the term is normally used) to believe a Supreme Being created the first created thing, and that a God (Supreme Being or otherwise) created this universe.
I must either believe that, or believe life evolved from non-life for no apparent reason.
Naama
Chibi Lilith
Um as someone who believes in God I would beg to differ if you don't mind....
Because if God exists then nothing created the first thing because God was the first thing.
socharlie
Active Member
partially agree with you on YEC.
You're saying that conclusions honestly reasoned from examinable evidence have a solid foundation and stories (of themselves) don't.
I agree. Not everyone does. How would you plan to persuade them to leave their comfort zone?
No, that's not right. All the Christian believers of my close acquaintance think the bible is a spiritual resource, not one to use for science, history, or other fields of factual enquiry, and they don't read the bible much at all. And to my observation, only a small percentage of Christians ever do, and a vastly smaller percentage read it critically. Instead they've been told about it by practitioners of religion, and that seems to suit them fine.
Faithofchristian
Well-Known Member
What makes you think, that Noah fed those animals, there is nothing written that Noah as feeding those animals.
I think your missing something. But then you know nothing about animals.
It only rained upon the earth for 40 days and 40 nights. That means, about
5 and half weeks. Go Figure, theres about
30 to 31 days in a Month.
So you have about 5 and half weeks, which would equal 40 days and 40 nights.
Seeing you have no idea what that fish was. You see it as an average fish, as we know a fish to be.
Therefore you have no idea what that fish was.
Two of every kind of animal could fit on the ark. If you had any idea how that would work.
You Go Figure how all these things are possible. It's not only easy, but also very simple to figure it out.
Just as easy as 2+2=4.
But I want to hear your analogy of it.
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I think it is quite clear to those who have studied Native American religion that there is much more substance there than a series of nice storied myths about the landscape.Seriously? What could be more obvious than that
"gods", "spirits" or whatever were concocted to explain the unknown?
This is not quite the same thing, but an acquaintance
spent a good many years in a native American community.
There were two hills nearby, in otherwise mostly flat country.
The story was that a giant had been carrying a big rock, but dropped it. It broke, the smaller hill actually looks as if it could have been the top of the bigger one.
I kinda dont think anyone saw it happen.
But everyone in the town knows about it.
My friends informant was an elder lady who said
her grandmother had thought up the story when
as a child she asked her grandmother how those
hills got there. It was only years later that she w as told that granny just made that up. But by then "everybody" knew it! And now it is true.
Parallels to such as Noahs ark, say, are of course,
unintended.
Yes there is.
Genesis 6:19 And of every living thing of all flesh, you shall bring two of every sort into the ark, to keep them alive with you; they shall be male and female. 20 Of the birds according to their kinds, and of the animals according to their kinds, of every creeping thing of the ground according to its kind, two of every sort shall come in to you, to keep them alive. 21 Also take with you every sort of food that is eaten, and store it up; and it shall serve as food for you and for them." 22 Noah did this; he did all that God commanded him.
One of the many things I have trouble with here is the assumption that the earth is flat, which is innate in the whole rain in-rain out idea.