Ask me anything about the science of Evolution :)

sayak83 said:

You are making too much on my use of the word mechanism. I was avoiding the word theory to get out of the silly "only a theory" rabbit hole.

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But we end up with the same problem. Intelligent design and creationism is a mental dysfunction of the intellect. But we can argue against that with a polar dysfunction and not realize it.
I am absolutely not arguing against evolution/life existence, interconnected, but I can split analytical narrative apart from experienced phenomena and ask is that itself evolution? The answer is no it's not its an intellectualized model of evolution. If we aren't careful, our theology becomes the text, in religion, our scientific orthodoxy is nature in science. That's why I have retreated into music.... and an occasional beer and hiking and hanging out laughing with friends and family! City life can be crazy. Oh and riding my motorcycle on isolated logging trails!!! With a guitar.

bobhikes said:

Produce a test that verifies evolution. It would probably best be an observational study or field study. Evolution can not be proven it is agreed upon scientific consensus.

See below.

Evolution is and always will be scientific consensus because there are to many variables, there is no way to test it scientifically. We can only observe and make probable guesses.

Lets take a bird on an isolated island that developed a beak for a specific bug. The beak made the bird so efficient that the bug is extinct. Scientists find the island 1000's of years after the bug went extinct and there is no reason to assume the bug was ever there. How could it be determined how the bird got its beak. There will be books explaining it but none of them would be right of course none of them could be proven wrong unless you have a time machine. That is evolution in a nutshell. The bird did evolve because they are different from other birds but we don't know why and can't prove why. We only can see the results, in science you need proof.

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Here is a field study demonstrating the unambiguous evolution of an island bird in real time.
Darwin’s finches are seen evolving in real time on Galapagos creating an entirely new species

Around 36 years ago, a strange bird arrived on one of the Galapagos islands. He sang a different song to the other birds, and his body and beak were unusually large compared to all the other birds.


Soon the bird made himself at home, and despite their differences, he was able to woo one member of the island’s inhabitants. The two birds mated, and their offspring started a brand new species all in real time, in front of the scientists' eyes. That species now has 30 members, according to a study published in Science.

David T said:

But we end up with the same problem. Intelligent design and creationism is a mental dysfunction of the intellect. But we can argue against that with a polar dysfunction and not realize it.
I am absolutely not arguing against evolution/life existence, interconnected, but I can split analytical narrative apart from experienced phenomena and ask is that itself evolution? The answer is no it's not its an intellectualized model of evolution. If we aren't careful, our theology becomes the text, in religion, our scientific orthodoxy is nature in science. That's why I have retreated into music.... and an occasional beer and hiking and hanging out laughing with friends and family! City life can be crazy. Oh and riding my motorcycle on isolated logging trails!!! With a guitar. View attachment 20786

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I am clueless as to what you are saying.
But enjoy your music, beer and bike riding.

sayak83 said:

As a scientist who closely follow the scientific research on biological evolution, I am in full agreement with 99% of US scientists that evolution is the mechanism by which all life has evolved into its current multifarious forms on earth.

Ask me any specific questions or clear any specific doubts you have about evolutionary science and its conclusions.

Also note that evolutionary science follow the scientific method. If you reject the scientific method as a means of knowing about reality, then this thread is not for you.

Otherwise ask away

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This is not a doubting question. Where could a person go to find a complete list of all known species with their names and bibliography about them? How much would it cost to get a copy?

sayak83 said:

As a scientist who closely follow the scientific research on biological evolution, I am in full agreement with 99% of US scientists that evolution is the mechanism by which all life has evolved into its current multifarious forms on earth.

Ask me any specific questions or clear any specific doubts you have about evolutionary science and its conclusions.

Also note that evolutionary science follow the scientific method. If you reject the scientific method as a means of knowing about reality, then this thread is not for you.

Otherwise ask away

Click to expand...

Where does your religion fit in with the science of evolution?

David T said:

But we end up with the same problem. Intelligent design and creationism is a mental dysfunction of the intellect. But we can argue against that with a polar dysfunction and not realize it.
I am absolutely not arguing against evolution/life existence, interconnected, but I can split analytical narrative apart from experienced phenomena and ask is that itself evolution? The answer is no it's not its an intellectualized model of evolution. If we aren't careful, our theology becomes the text, in religion, our scientific orthodoxy is nature in science. That's why I have retreated into music.... and an occasional beer and hiking and hanging out laughing with friends and family! City life can be crazy. Oh and riding my motorcycle on isolated logging trails!!! With a guitar. View attachment 20786

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"City Life Can Be Crazy"

Now, there we are in agreement! But I love it.
Not really an outdoors person.

Well, Central Park, but that is not too natural.

Brickjectivity said:

This is not a doubting question. Where could a person go to find a complete list of all known species with their names and bibliography about them? How much would it cost to get a copy?

Click to expand...

https://paleobiodb.org/#
Home | Catalogue of Life

sayak83 said:

I am clueless as to what you are saying.
But enjoy your music, beer and bike riding.

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The intellect, it loves itself. Hildegard von debingen around 1200 ad said "we cannot live in an interpreted world. For an interpreted world is not home." She is challenging what became religious orthodoxy nonsense, "we believe".... That's nonsense along with "we do not believe", and "We are agnostic" in context to nature.. that whole singularity of city/culture/crazy is irrelevant and prevalant at the same time.

osgart said:

Where does your religion fit in with the science of evolution?

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There is no inconsistency as far as I am aware.

This is for all the people who like to use this argument.
Can you how the 'self-replicating watch' argument is erroneous?

Audie said:

"City Life Can Be Crazy"

Now, there we are in agreement! But I love it.
Not really an outdoors person.

Well, Central Park, but that is not too natural.

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Omg you are like Emerson!!!! I am a feral wild cat like John muir. Oh I think a song is appropriate here. Dylan's song all along the watch tower was written in his time in the village . Only a three cord repeat throughout the whole original. Amazing lyrics so true!!!

There must be some kind of way outta here
Said the joker to the thief
There's too much confusion
I can't get no relief
Business men, they drink my wine
Plowman dig my earth
None were level on the mind
Nobody up at his word
Hey, hey
No reason to get excited
The thief he kindly spoke
There are many here among us
Who feel that life is but a joke
But, uh, but you and I, we've been through that
And this is not our fate
So let us stop talkin' falsely now
The hour's getting late, hey
All along the watchtower
Princes kept the view
While all the women came and went
Barefoot servants, too
Outside in the cold distance
A wildcat did growl
Two riders were approaching
And the wind began to howl
Songwriters: Bob Dylan

bobhikes said:

Not at all look up scientific method.

Evolution is and always will be scientific consensus because there are to many variables, there is no way to test it scientifically. We can only observe and make probable guesses.

Lets take a bird on an isolated island that developed a beak for a specific bug. The beak made the bird so efficient that the bug is extinct. Scientists find the island 1000's of years after the bug went extinct and there is no reason to assume the bug was ever there. How could it be determined how the bird got its beak. There will be books explaining it but none of them would be right of course none of them could be proven wrong unless you have a time machine. That is evolution in a nutshell. The bird did evolve because they are different but we don't know why and can't prove it. We only can see the results, in science you need proof.

Click to expand...

I have looked up the scientific method, and sayak83 quoted it to show you your error. You are merely letting your bias show up. And please, you can't use strawman versions of evolution to prove that evolution is wrong. Be precise, why do you think that the theory of evolution cannot be tested.

Woberts said:

This is for all the people who like to use this argument.
Can you how the 'self-replicating watch' argument is erroneous?

Click to expand...

What argument?

David T said:

Omg you are like Emerson!!!! I am a feral wild cat like John muir. Oh I think a song is appropriate here. Dylan's song all along the watch tower was written in his time in the village . Only a three cord repeat throughout the whole original. Amazing lyrics so true!!!

There must be some kind of way outta here
Said the joker to the thief
There's too much confusion
I can't get no relief
Business men, they drink my wine
Plowman dig my earth
None were level on the mind
Nobody up at his word
Hey, hey
No reason to get excited
The thief he kindly spoke
There are many here among us
Who feel that life is but a joke
But, uh, but you and I, we've been through that
And this is not our fate
So let us stop talkin' falsely now
The hour's getting late, hey
All along the watchtower
Princes kept the view
While all the women came and went
Barefoot servants, too
Outside in the cold distance
A wildcat did growl
Two riders were approaching
And the wind began to howl
Songwriters: Bob Dylan

Click to expand...

I am a big Dylan fan.

And a big city girl.

bobhikes said:

Produce a test that verifies evolution. It would probably best be an observational study or field study. Evolution can not be proven it is agreed upon scientific consensus.

See below.

Evolution is and always will be scientific consensus because there are to many variables, there is no way to test it scientifically. We can only observe and make probable guesses.

Lets take a bird on an isolated island that developed a beak for a specific bug. The beak made the bird so efficient that the bug is extinct. Scientists find the island 1000's of years after the bug went extinct and there is no reason to assume the bug was ever there. How could it be determined how the bird got its beak. There will be books explaining it but none of them would be right of course none of them could be proven wrong unless you have a time machine. That is evolution in a nutshell. The bird did evolve because they are different from other birds but we don't know why and can't prove why. We only can see the results, in science you need proof.

Click to expand...

No test "verifies" a scientific theory or hypothesis. As I suspected you do not understand that scientific method. And you merely repeated your strawman.

Scientists never try to test a theory or hypothesis to see if it is true. That cannot be done. They test it to see if it is false. The first "test" that a hypothesis or theory has to pass is that it has to explain all of the existing data. If it cannot it has already failed and is discarded on the spot. Then one tries to prove it wrong. The hypothesis will also have to be useful. Predictions need to be able to made with it. If predictions cannot be made it is useless and it is discarded. Then the real work of science begins. Not only by the person that made the hypothesis, but by every other qualified scientist that is curious about the hypothesis. They try to prove it wrong.

The predictions that a hypothesis or theory makes are used to test it. If a clear prediction is made and it fails so does the theory. That is why creationism is not science. Followers of it are too afraid to use it to make predictions. They know that it is wrong. Real scientists are not afraid of testing, they embrace it. The theory of evolution has undergone minor changes as the result of testing, but no major changes have been made to it.

And remember, just because you cannot think of a valid test does not mean that those trained in the sciences cannot.

Brickjectivity said:

This is not a doubting question. Where could a person go to find a complete list of all known species with their names and bibliography about them? How much would it cost to get a copy?

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There are 1.6 million and more.

Subduction Zone said:

I have looked up the scientific method, and sayak83 quoted it to show you your error. You are merely letting your bias show up. And please, you can't use strawman versions of evolution to prove that evolution is wrong. Be precise, why do you think that the theory of evolution cannot be tested.

Click to expand...

Produce a valid test that was done. I will be looking through the one given by sayak83 and will gladly look through any you produce if you can.

Audie said:

I am a big Dylan fan.

And a big city girl.

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Dylan never left The city either!! Although he really wanted to!! If you grow up in the boonies, raised by wild monkeys, then city life can be like an autistic kid who wanders into a mosh pit. Yea fun, for a bit but then suddenly developing seizures and twitching on the ground..happened to muir all the time. His wife would just let him run off into the sierras for a bit. His hikes would kill about 85% of the population today very hardcore .

bobhikes said:

Produce a valid test that was done. I will be looking through the one given by sayak83 and will gladly look through any you produce if you can.

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A clear example is the example of the human Chromosome 2. We have one less pair of chromosomes than other great apes. If we share a common ancestor then either one of our chromosomes split for them, and this is unlikely since the splits between us and the other apes occurred at different times, or the much more likely case that one of our chromosomes was fused.

The latter was found to be the case. There is clear evidence that Chromosome 2 is a fusion of two other chromosomes in our past. Please note, the difference in number of chromosomes was known long before we were able to detect the evidence that they were the result of two chromosomes fused together:


Chromosome 2 - Wikipedia

The technical paper where this discovery was first announced:

http://www.pnas.org/content/pnas/88/20/9051.full.pdf

sayak83 said:

Ask me any specific questions or clear any specific doubts you have about evolutionary science and its conclusions.

Click to expand...

Why is it important?

What I mean to say is: Does it make any difference whether we were created, evolved, or evolved from a creation? After all, we're here, aren't we - whether or not we're on the winning (or losing) side of the debate?

I suppose one could argue that it's important because it's true, and that the truth must be protected somehow. Not being a Guardian of the Truth myself, I wouldn't know.

Forgive me, all. I'm just in a rather weird mood today.