Tumah
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Liberals: Does what Jesus said matter to you?
- Thread starter SinSaber
- Start date
Skipper
Wrong is wrong,/ Make America moral again.
I do not remember Christ saying much about sex. He did step in and prevent the woman taken in adultery from being stoned to death. That indicates something, right?
Now Christ said quite a lot about how we are to treat each other and those teachings are ones that seem to totally forgotten or ignored by current Republican conservates. Those folk have no interest in the morality of treating others ethically and with help when those folk have needs.
Now Christ said quite a lot about how we are to treat each other and those teachings are ones that seem to totally forgotten or ignored by current Republican conservates. Those folk have no interest in the morality of treating others ethically and with help when those folk have needs.
FlyingTeaPot
Irrational Rationalist. Educated Fool.
To the best of my knowledge, I have never actually said that. But hey, I'm an atheist.
Not really. But hey, I'm an atheist.
Jesus wasn't a traditionalist so much as he was definitely a liberator from darkness.
Love is the only Way. Love covers a multitude of sins. With Love all things are possible.
But without Love
Revelation 22:15
Outside are the dogs, those who practice magic arts, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters and everyone who loves and practices falsehood.
Love is a liberating experience and in paradoxically a binding one. But it isn't a controlling, or an imprisoning experience. Love uplifts. It doesn't cast down.
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Of course Christ's words matter. When he says he is only way to salvation, he means exactly that. However, the Christ does not require you to believe in him or follow any rules about sexuality in order for him to grant you salvation. All he asks is that you love your fellowmen and help the poor. If you do those two things, he will grant atheists, communists, gays, transgender people - anyone else salvation.
[QUOTE="SinSaber, post: 5445608, member: 62561 However, when Christ says he is the only way to salvation, you say there are many ways to heaven.
QUOTE]
Not quite.
That all men and women who are saved share, though differently, in the same mystery of salvation in Jesus Christ through his Spirit. Christians know this through their faith, while others remain unaware that Jesus Christ is the source of their salvation. The mystery of salvation reaches out to them, in a way known to God, through the invisible action of the Spirit of Christ. Concretely, it will be in the sincere practice of what is good in their own religious traditions and by following the dictates of their conscience that the members of other religions respond positively to God's invitation and receive salvation in Jesus Christ, even while they do not recognize or acknowledge him as their savior.
It states that all salvation is through Christ, there is no 'outside' of Christ. Neither the Church not the Bible saves, only God.
[QUOTE="SinSaber, post: 5445608, member: 62561
Which is it? Does Christ’s words matter or not?[/QUOTE]
Its a little more complicated than that. The first to be clarified is which are determined to be the 'words' of Jesus, of which there is no account of anything between Jesus and his disciples. The earliest NT writing is 30 years after the D/R. The Gospels are written with an eye on their current situations and how would Jesus have reacted. Jesus promised the Paraclete would offer continued discernment.
QUOTE]
Not quite.
That all men and women who are saved share, though differently, in the same mystery of salvation in Jesus Christ through his Spirit. Christians know this through their faith, while others remain unaware that Jesus Christ is the source of their salvation. The mystery of salvation reaches out to them, in a way known to God, through the invisible action of the Spirit of Christ. Concretely, it will be in the sincere practice of what is good in their own religious traditions and by following the dictates of their conscience that the members of other religions respond positively to God's invitation and receive salvation in Jesus Christ, even while they do not recognize or acknowledge him as their savior.
It states that all salvation is through Christ, there is no 'outside' of Christ. Neither the Church not the Bible saves, only God.
[QUOTE="SinSaber, post: 5445608, member: 62561
Which is it? Does Christ’s words matter or not?[/QUOTE]
Its a little more complicated than that. The first to be clarified is which are determined to be the 'words' of Jesus, of which there is no account of anything between Jesus and his disciples. The earliest NT writing is 30 years after the D/R. The Gospels are written with an eye on their current situations and how would Jesus have reacted. Jesus promised the Paraclete would offer continued discernment.
This∆∆∆∆!
If modern Christians lived their lives according to what's to be found in the red words of the NT, and parsed the parts of the Bible that didn't match it so well, we would be living in The Kingdom.
From Jesus you'd get things like
Love your neighbor as yourself, the rest of the Law is details.
What you do for the least, you do for Me.
Don't bother with treasure that rusts or rots, it won't get you what you need.
What you won't find is much support for the values generally held by US conservatives. "Hard work and self-reliance=personal liberty and prosperity" will not be found there. American exceptionalism and Capitalism are nearly forbidden, they probably would have been had they even been thought of in the 1st century.
Tom
So John 14:6 is meaningless? And what of the people who follow diligently? That’s big insult to them
Also ignored by liberals who hate traditional views, but whatever
We could take that a little farther.
Jesus said, "Render unto Caeser that which is Caesar's", ie. pay your taxes. Jesus also said, "What you do for the least, you do for Me", ie. take care of the lowliest and poorest. Put them together, and what you have is "Pay your taxes so the government can share with the people in need."
I don't see anything complicated about that. What is difficult is getting modern Capitalist and libertarian attitudes to match the words in red.
Tom
Skipper
Wrong is wrong,/ Make America moral again.
I fear your comment carries little meaning as you give no examples of what you mean by 'traditional views'. Would you please elaborate what you mean by this term?
QuestioningMind
Well-Known Member
The title should have been 'CHRISTIANS: Does what Jesus Said Matter To You?
I see conservative Christians picking and choosing what quotes from Jesus they decide are worth following and which ones they can ignore just as often as liberal Christians.
Of course it not meaningless. It is the absolute truth (I don't think you read my previous post). Of course it is only the Christ who takes each person to Father, but he does that to everyone - regardless of their beliefs or sexual habits, as long as they treat their fellow human beings with love and kindness and help the poor (feed the hungry, take care of the sick, have compassion for those in prison and welcomes strangers/immigrants). Following Jesus diligently means doing those four things (Matthew 25:31-46).
sealchan
Well-Known Member
I've seen many Christians debate whether a believer is subject to sin or not. I'm not sure if that is a preference for liberal Christians or not or whether you are saying that is a form of liberal Christianity to believe that one is forever free of the act of sinning (not just free of the burden of sin) if one accepts Jesus into one's heart.
I will say that whoever in the Bible says that homosexual sex is evil is wrong. Paul, Moses, whoever. For some same sex relations are as meaningful and spiritually good as opposite sex relations in the context of a committed and sincerely relationship. The act of sex should be accompanied by trust, safety and responsibility. There is no reason why same sex couples aren't equally to participate in this experience as opposite sex couples IMO.
Christ said many things...one can live a lifetime exploring the ramifications of what Christ taught. What Christ taught is reported to us by four people who appear not to have been direct witnesses to Christs teaching as they all utilize similar sources for their gospel or they tell stories with some contradictions.
I believe we can be counselled by Christ in our hearts and indeed it is only in our hearts, our own personal hearts and our personal understanding, that we can measure the worth and value of ourselves and our actions.
However, I also do not hold that Christ is literally the only way to heaven any more than Christ always spoke literally. He spoke to his audience and his biographers wrote for theirs. Heaven is not appreciably different from nirvana or release from karma. There is suffering, but a suffering that achieves a victory. True in many religions.
Four second hand gospels...innumerable human hearts. Yet all religions teach us very similar things. Christ is but a form of one teacher of these universal truths. Is there one Christ or many? How many Christs are there in the Bible? Four plus Paul's?
Your just a humanist.
Maybe the parable of the two brothers applies.
Bible Gateway passage: Matthew 21:28-32 - New International Version
Did you think it applies only to the Jews? If you are a Christian, I would recommend not to presume to tell God who He must accept and reject.
Bible Gateway passage: Matthew 25:40-45 - New Revised Standard Version
And finally
Bible Gateway passage: John 3:8 - New Revised Standard Version
I am hard pressed to find in the four gospels where it says that following Jesus means worshiping him. Could you point it out? Thanks.
The depth of your analysis and witness are an inspiration to us all.
Tom
Faithofchristian
Well-Known Member
From what can be seen of Liberals, They don't follow the teachings of Christ Jesus.
Everything that Christ Jesus stands against, Liberals are found in embracing them ?
Everything that Christ Jesus stands against, Liberals are found in embracing them ?