Liberals: Does what Jesus said matter to you?

[Jesster]

You would be surprised just what people would believe. So I was asking Sleepy's what they thought?

You were posting on an open forum. If you want to have a private conversation, send a PM.

 

[Sleeppy]

You would be surprised just what people would believe. So I was asking Sleeppy what they thought?

In either case, it should be understood.


Babylonian Talmud Berakoth 55

R. Samuel b. Nahmani said in the name of R. Jonathan: A man is shown in a dream only what is suggested by his own thoughts, as it says, As for thee, Oh King, thy thoughts came into thy mind upon thy bed. Or if you like, I can derive it from here: That thou mayest know the thoughts of the heart. Raba said: This is proved by the fact that a man is never shown in a dream a date palm of gold, or an elephant going through the eye of a needle.


The camel and the eye of the needle, Hebrew NT Application - Biblical Hebrew

 

[sayak83]

Because that's in the text?

Here's the whole episode. I picked the version in Luke, but all the synoptic gospels are similar:

Then they watched him carefully and sent spies who pretended to be sincere. They wanted to take advantage of what he might say so that they could deliver him up to the authority and jurisdiction of the governor. 21 Thus they asked him, “Teacher, we know that you speak and teach correctly, and show no partiality, but teach the way of God in accordance with the truth. 22 Is it right for us to pay the tribute tax to Caesar or not?” 23 But Jesus perceived their deceit and said to them, 24 “Show me a denarius. Whose image and inscription are on it?” They said, “Caesar’s.” 25 So he said to them, “Then give to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s, and to God the things that are God’s.” 26 Thus they were unable in the presence of the people to trap him with his own words. And stunned by his answer, they fell silent.

Look at the story: they're trying to trap Jesus into saying something that is consistent with his preaching but would be considered subversive by the authorities. He could have given a straight answer of "yes, it's right to pay your taxes." He could have given a speech like what Paul writes in the Epistles about how all authority has been appointed by God. He doesn't. Instead, he gives a response that can be taken two different ways.

Not only that, but he does it in a way that demonstrates that Herod's spies didn't properly recognize the sovereignty of God.

I looked at the passage and to me at least the explanation I presented appears correct. Consistent with his message that the kingdom he is talking about is not of this world. But everyone his own.

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

It was the DNC who went out looking for the homosexualit for their support, it bill clinton back in 1993 that went to California for the gays Supporters and then bill clinton went to the East coast condemning homosexualit to get those on the East coast to support him

Yes. That is the most moral solution. There is no reason to deny gays rights.

It's the DNC who supports the killing of innocent baby's in planned Parenthood.

It's supported in the bible. It's not even for a mother whose life is danger. Rather, it's just for a jealous and paranoid husband. I don't know about other liberals, but I get tired of being told I cherry pick when it's clear many conservatives never read the entire thing.

It's the GOP that stands against the killing of innocent baby's.

Newsflash: if the mother dies, so does the baby!

Therefore everything that Christ Jesus stands against the DNC Supports.

I missed the Jesus quotes where Jesus said not to abort or make cakes for gays.

Who do you think are the whoremongers that are the third on the list.
A whoremonger is a Homosexual

Um ... no. Look up the word "whore".

Notice what Jesus said in Matthew 19:4-5
"And he answered and said unto them, Have you not read , that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female, And said, for this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they shall be one flesh"
So Explain exactly how homosexualit fits into that ?

How does hetero marriage fit with "if you love your family more than me, you don't get to be with me"?

As for children, let's see what Jesus has to say about children.
Luke 18:16--"But Jesus called them unto him, and said, allow little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God"

Abortion cuts out the wait, right?

First no ones taking away healthcare, don't rely on the Government, get a job and go to work and get your own insurance, don't be lazy.

I have short term disability insurance with my employer. Me an' a bunch of other nurses have been getting letters that our company hasn't been paying the premiums and thus our coverage is cancelled. How am I to blame for this?

 

[Skipper]

The last judgement is recorded in the book of Revelation 22:15.
Who do you think are the whoremongers that are the third on the list.
A whoremonger is a Homosexual.

You are quite wrong in your definition. A whoremonger is a person who 'mongers' with whores. To 'monger' is to be involved with something petty or contemptible. Whoremonger is a term used in King James. Modern translations use the terms used to describe fornication or adultery. So, you see Revelation 22:15 says nothing about homosexuality.

Whoremonder defined at www.dictionary.com

noun
1. someone who consorts with whores; a lecher or pander.

 

[columbus]

Who do you think are the whoremongers that are the third on the list.
A whoremonger is a Homosexual.

Nope.
I am both homosexual and one of the most judgemental people, concerning irresponsible sex, you will ever meet.
Because I know a lot about sex and also families.
Tom

 

[Faithofchristian]

You are quite wrong in your definition. A whoremonger is a person who 'mongers' with whores. To 'monger' is to be involved with something petty or contemptible. Whoremonger is a term used in King James. Modern translations use the terms used to describe fornication or adultery. So, you see Revelation 22:15 says nothing about homosexuality.

Whoremonder defined at www.dictionary.com

noun
1. someone who consorts with whores; a lecher or pander.

Maybe you should get the Greek translation for what a Whoremonger is.

Whoremonger = male prostitute = gay male

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

M

Maybe you should get the Greek translation for what a Whoremonger is.

Whoremonger = male prostitute = gay male

A male prostitute is Gigalo not a gay their customers are female.

 

[Skipper]

Maybe you should get the Greek translation for what a Whoremonger is.

Whoremonger = male prostitute = gay male

I'd say you are on extremely thin ice, of all the English translations I've checked only two use whoremonger. Read on:


New International Version
Outside are the dogs, those who practice magic arts, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters and everyone who loves and practices falsehood.

New Living Translation
Outside the city are the dogs--the sorcerers, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idol worshipers, and all who love to live a lie.

English Standard Version
Outside are the dogs and sorcerers and the sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices falsehood.

Berean Study Bible
But outside are the dogs, the sorcerers, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices falsehood.

Berean Literal Bible
Outside are the dogs, and the sorcerers, and the sexually immoral, and the murderers, and the idolaters, and everyone loving and practicing falsehood.

New American Standard Bible
Outside are the dogs and the sorcerers and the immoral persons and the murderers and the idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices lying.

King James Bible
For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
Outside are the dogs, the sorcerers, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices lying.

International Standard Version
Outside are dogs, sorcerers, immoral people, murderers, idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices falsehood.

NET Bible
Outside are the dogs and the sorcerers and the sexually immoral, and the murderers, and the idolaters and everyone who loves and practices falsehood!

New Heart English Bible
Outside are the dogs, the sorcerers, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices falsehood.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
“And outside are fornicators, murderers, idol worshipers, the defiled, sorcerers and all seers and workers of lies.”

GOD'S WORD® Translation
Outside are dogs, sorcerers, sexual sinners, murderers, idolaters, and all who lie in what they say and what they do.

New American Standard 1977
Outside are the dogs and the sorcerers and the immoral persons and the murderers and the idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices lying.

Jubilee Bible 2000
But outside are the dogs and the sorcerers and the fornicators and the murderers and the idolaters and whosoever loves and makes a lie.

King James 2000 Bible
For outside are dogs, and sorcerers, and fornicators, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loves and makes a lie.

American King James Version
For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and fornicators, and murderers, and idolaters, and whoever loves and makes a lie.

American Standard Version
Without are the dogs, and the sorcerers, and the fornicators, and the murderers, and the idolaters, and every one that loveth and maketh a lie.

Douay-Rheims Bible
Without are dogs, and sorcerers, and unchaste, and murderers, and servers of idols, and every one that loveth and maketh a lie.

Darby Bible Translation
Without [are] the dogs, and the sorcerers, and the fornicators, and the murderers, and the idolaters, and every one that loves and makes a lie.

English Revised Version
Without are the dogs, and the sorcerers, and the fornicators, and the murderers, and the idolaters, and every one that loveth and maketh a lie.

Webster's Bible Translation
For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and lewd men, and murderers, and idolaters, and whoever loveth and maketh a lie.

Weymouth New Testament
The unclean are shut out, and so are all who practise magic, all fornicators, all murderers, and those who worship idols, and every one who loves falsehood and tells lies.

World English Bible
Outside are the dogs, the sorcerers, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices falsehood.

Young's Literal Translation
and without are the dogs, and the sorcerers, and the whoremongers, and the murderers, and the idolaters, and every one who is loving and is doing a lie.

 

[Skipper]

You are quite wrong in your definition. A whoremonger is a person who 'mongers' with whores. To 'monger' is to be involved with something petty or contemptible. Whoremonger is a term used in King James. Modern translations use the terms used to describe fornication or adultery. So, you see Revelation 22:15 says nothing about homosexuality.

Whoremonder defined at www.dictionary.com

noun
1. someone who consorts with whores; a lecher or pander.

None of the commentaries at Revelation 22:15 Commentaries: Outside are the dogs and the sorcerers and the immoral persons and the murderers and the idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices lying. agree with you.

This verse, this chapter does not describe the final judgment. To attempt to make it do so is to take a very liberal interpretation.

The final judgment is in Matthew and sex is not mentioned, as I said in my earlier post. And, as I said, the goats adhere to the beliefs and actions of the goats.

 

[Skipper]

Maybe you should get the Greek translation for what a Whoremonger is.

Whoremonger = male prostitute = gay male

The Greek translation I have defines
πόρνος pornos as
prostitute or porn. Has nothing to do with homosexuality.

 

[Faithofchristian]

I'd say you are on extremely thin ice, of all the English translations I've checked only two use whoremonger. Read on:


New International Version
Outside are the dogs, those who practice magic arts, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters and everyone who loves and practices falsehood.

New Living Translation
Outside the city are the dogs--the sorcerers, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idol worshipers, and all who love to live a lie.

English Standard Version
Outside are the dogs and sorcerers and the sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices falsehood.

Berean Study Bible
But outside are the dogs, the sorcerers, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices falsehood.

Berean Literal Bible
Outside are the dogs, and the sorcerers, and the sexually immoral, and the murderers, and the idolaters, and everyone loving and practicing falsehood.

New American Standard Bible
Outside are the dogs and the sorcerers and the immoral persons and the murderers and the idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices lying.

King James Bible
For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
Outside are the dogs, the sorcerers, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices lying.

International Standard Version
Outside are dogs, sorcerers, immoral people, murderers, idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices falsehood.

NET Bible
Outside are the dogs and the sorcerers and the sexually immoral, and the murderers, and the idolaters and everyone who loves and practices falsehood!

New Heart English Bible
Outside are the dogs, the sorcerers, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices falsehood.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
“And outside are fornicators, murderers, idol worshipers, the defiled, sorcerers and all seers and workers of lies.”

GOD'S WORD® Translation
Outside are dogs, sorcerers, sexual sinners, murderers, idolaters, and all who lie in what they say and what they do.

New American Standard 1977
Outside are the dogs and the sorcerers and the immoral persons and the murderers and the idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices lying.

Jubilee Bible 2000
But outside are the dogs and the sorcerers and the fornicators and the murderers and the idolaters and whosoever loves and makes a lie.

King James 2000 Bible
For outside are dogs, and sorcerers, and fornicators, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loves and makes a lie.

American King James Version
For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and fornicators, and murderers, and idolaters, and whoever loves and makes a lie.

American Standard Version
Without are the dogs, and the sorcerers, and the fornicators, and the murderers, and the idolaters, and every one that loveth and maketh a lie.

Douay-Rheims Bible
Without are dogs, and sorcerers, and unchaste, and murderers, and servers of idols, and every one that loveth and maketh a lie.

Darby Bible Translation
Without [are] the dogs, and the sorcerers, and the fornicators, and the murderers, and the idolaters, and every one that loves and makes a lie.

English Revised Version
Without are the dogs, and the sorcerers, and the fornicators, and the murderers, and the idolaters, and every one that loveth and maketh a lie.

Webster's Bible Translation
For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and lewd men, and murderers, and idolaters, and whoever loveth and maketh a lie.

Weymouth New Testament
The unclean are shut out, and so are all who practise magic, all fornicators, all murderers, and those who worship idols, and every one who loves falsehood and tells lies.

World English Bible
Outside are the dogs, the sorcerers, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices falsehood.

Young's Literal Translation
and without are the dogs, and the sorcerers, and the whoremongers, and the murderers, and the idolaters, and every one who is loving and is doing a lie.

You know what, I could careless what all those other Translation Bible's has to say.

Nice try, but try again.

 

[Skipper]

You know what, I could careless what all those other Translation Bible's has to say.

Nice try, but try again.

Are you one of those folk who if they do not agree with 'me' they are automatically wrong? Other translations are the Bible also.

 

[dfnj]

You say Christ said nothing about sexuality and there’s no sin. However, when Christ says he is the only way to salvation, you say there are many ways to heaven.

Which is it? Does Christ’s words matter or not?

The apostles said Christ was the only way to salvation. The teachings of Christ are not the issue. The idea of idolizing the words "Jesus Christ" and the words of the Bible detract from the meaning of the teachings of Jesus Christ. I don't know how you put "liberal" label on this way of thinking. But it seems to me the "conservatives" root for Jesus like a NFL football team. Fandom of religion is NOT the same thing has living a spiritual according to the teachings of Jesus. But you seem hung up on the idea that idolizing Jesus is more important than what Jesus represents.

God is available to everyone at any time even without using the words "Jesus Christ". The answer is "no", Christ's word do not matter. Now if you are Hell bent on hating "liberals" or other people for whatever reason then I think you are proving my point.

 

[dfnj]

Would you ask the same thing of conservative capitalists and Christ's words about money?

Their needles have really big eye holes!

 

[Faithofchristian]

Are you one of those folk who if they do not agree with 'me' they are automatically wrong? Other translations are the Bible also.

Those other Translations are not the bible, they came about much later to give support to man's teachings and doctrines.

I used to do just like, have all kinds of Translations of the bible, But then i soon realizing, that I can have one bible that will do just fine, if other people wish to carry all those other Translations around. Be my guess, But as for me, one bible will do just fine.
I guess each to their own.

So if thats your bag, to carry all those other Translations around, That's not my bag.

All I need is the KJV and my Companion Bible, which has the Hebrew and Greek Translations into the English language.
And the Strong's Concordance of the Hebrew and Greek language into English.

So all I need is those 3 books, that works out just fine.

But I will grant this week one thing, about the KJV There are words in the KJV that did get lost in Translation.
That's why I have the Companion bible and the Strong's Concordance of the Bible. To help bring out the Translations of the Hebrew and Greek language into English.

 

[dfnj]

Those other Translations are not the bible, they came about much later to give support to man's teachings and doctrines.

I used to do just like, have all kinds of Translations of the bible, But then i soon realizing, that I can have one bible that will do just fine, if other people wish to carry all those other Translations around. Be my guess, But as for me, one bible will do just fine.
I guess each to their own.

So if thats your bag, to carry all those other Translations around, That's not my bag.

All I need is the KJV and my Companion Bible, which has the Hebrew and Greek Translations into the English language.
And the Strong's Concordance of the Hebrew and Greek language into English.

So all I need is those 3 books, that works out just fine.

But I will grant this week one thing, about the KJV There are words in the KJV that did get lost in Translation.
That's why I have the Companion bible and the Strong's Concordance of the Bible. To help bring out the Translations of the Hebrew and Greek language into English.

The source writing that got translated into Greek is where the King James translators did the most damage. It just bothers me that King James who wrote "The True Law of Free Monarchies" would have a version of the Bible that so closely supports his claim to divine rights as king. Coincidence or propaganda for the masses?

 

[Skipper]

Those other Translations are not the bible, they came about much later to give support to man's teachings and doctrines.

I used to do just like, have all kinds of Translations of the bible, But then i soon realizing, that I can have one bible that will do just fine, if other people wish to carry all those other Translations around. Be my guess, But as for me, one bible will do just fine.
I guess each to their own.

So if thats your bag, to carry all those other Translations around, That's not my bag.

All I need is the KJV and my Companion Bible, which has the Hebrew and Greek Translations into the English language.
And the Strong's Concordance of the Hebrew and Greek language into English.

So all I need is those 3 books, that works out just fine.

But I will grant this week one thing, about the KJV There are words in the KJV that did get lost in Translation.
That's why I have the Companion bible and the Strong's Concordance of the Bible. To help bring out the Translations of the Hebrew and Greek language into English.

No, you have to throw out the King James as it came later than other English translations and translations in Latin. Just being consistent with your logic on when a translation was produced. Also you realize that you do not have the original KJ translation, the 1611 translation. You have a later one that the KJ scholars produced to, as they said 'correct errors' they found in the original. There were several revisions in the 17th century. And, do you know the political reasons King James wanted the Bible translated?

 

[columbus]

Those other Translations are not the bible, they came about much later to give support to man's teachings and doctrines.

No English translation of the Bible would be recognized by the authors or the Apostles or St Paul. They are all what someone centuries later interpreted the Greek writings to mean.
And the newer ones are generally better because we know more about it now than people did in King James day.
Tom

 

[Skipper]

Forty-seven translators and scholars produced the King James Bible, which was first published in 1611. The project dates back to 1604, when King James I decided a new version could help consolidate political power, writes NPR’s Barbara Bradley Hagartay. A popular Puritan bible had downplayed the divine right of kings — greatly offending James — and James manipulated different Christian sects until they agreed to produce a different translation.

Read more: The Origins of the King James Bible | Smart News | Smithsonian


[I bolded the one sentence.]