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It's a Jewish text that has absolutely nothing to do with Jesus.
So how did Christians extrapolate that somehow, the Old Testament had anything to do with Jesus?
Didn't Hebrews/Israelites/Jews also believe in other gods, per the bible? Apparently it's not that hard to think that group will worship other gods.That's how christianity comes by Jesus in the Jewish old testament.
So it was handed down by Jews to christianity.
That's how Christians comes by Jesus in the Jewish old testaments. By Jews themselves.
From what has been recorded in the Bible, I have heard some say that Jesus knew very little about Judaism.Was Jesus Jewish?
From what has been recorded in the Bible, I have heard some say that Jesus knew very little about Judaism.
Didn't Hebrews/Israelites/Jews also believe in other gods, per the bible? Apparently it's not that hard to think that group will worship other gods.
From what has been recorded in the Bible, I have heard some say that Jesus knew very little about Judaism.
It's a Jewish text that has absolutely nothing to do with Jesus.
So how did Christians extrapolate that somehow, the Old Testament had anything to do with Jesus?
It's a Jewish text that has absolutely nothing to do with Jesus.
So how did Christians extrapolate that somehow, the Old Testament had anything to do with Jesus?
The way it sounds, I don't think Jesus could have been a rabbi given his apparently limited knowledge of Judaism.Paul, really, right?
Matthew makes a great effort to make a connection but this was written after Paul. Paul had a great influence on the direction Christianity took. Paul as a Jew perhaps felt a personal need to make the connection. The gospel story was rewritten is such a way to make this connection.
Suppose Paul wasn't in the picture. Maybe Jesus then becomes another Jewish Prophet or Rabbi of influence.
I think it might be easy to see why people might think Christians take that out of context. You said Old Testament? That the verse about a future king?
If jesus is god then he made himself human by getting Mary pregnant so she can give birth to him? Whoever wrote that in the OT sounds like they were on some heavy drugs.
I agree. It's amazing what Jesus' followers tried to sell.It's all propaganda.
No, the Jews who followed the authors' dictates were considered "true". Historically, however, that's like saying Europeans never had sex with non-Europeans but the DNA tests came back and ... that was a lie.But the true Jews of Israel worship only the true God of Israel.
Avoiding the fact they actually weren't, historically, from what I've been reading, it's a logical thing to say. Much like modern Israel, most of the citizens were brought in from elsewhere and have very little to do with the history that never happened anyway. Many cities in Israel weren't even founded by Jews or Hebrews, but by Greeks and Syrians and Romans. Jewish rebellions and governments never lasted. They wanted the country to be something it simply wasn't.Notice these Jews said, and never in bondage to any man?
Now that's amazing, Seeing how Israel was in bondage in Egypt 400 years.
And those were? Fighting kings, tending some sheep, rescuing bratty nephews, etc. That's about it. Nothing truly profound, when you think about it.And then these Jews continued to question Jesus, They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father, Jesus said unto them,
If you were Abraham's children, you would do the works of Abraham"
But Jesus is lying. No scene where Satan actually appears does he lie. At all. Ever. The most he does is goad someone into doing something evil, but that's not telling a lie. It wouldn't even be effective if that darkness wasn't already there in your heart. Satan tempts God to smite Job and God swallows the bait wholesale, even admitting what He was doing was for no good reason.You are of your father the devil, and the lust of your father you will do, he was a murderer from the beginning, and love not the truth, because there is no truth in him, When he speaks a lie, he speaks of his own: for he is a lair, and the father of the lie"
Job 2
3 And the Lord said to Satan, “Have you considered my servant Job, that there is none like him on the earth, a blameless and upright man, who fears God and turns away from evil? He still holds fast his integrity, although you incited me against him to destroy him without reason.”
He's not mentioned in Genesis, at least the Garden of Eden story. Either Jesus is lying or he's using a non-canon story. Either way, it's still false.Notice Jesus said ( he was a murderer from the beginning) So when was the beginning?
Jesus tells the truth about as well as God does. It's a shame, really.And you have those Jews who are of their Father the Almighty God.Christ Jesus.
I agree. It's amazing what Jesus' followers tried to sell.
No, the Jews who followed the authors' dictates were considered "true". Historically, however, that's like saying Europeans never had sex with non-Europeans but the DNA tests came back and ... that was a lie.
In other words, history is quite clear the "average Joseph" didn't believe what one guy at a particular location wrote about angrily in his bedroom. Monotheism reeks of religious monopoly: the priests/prophets/whatever wanted absolute control over the food/money, ahem, the "religious devotion" of the people. We saw this in Egypt as well with the worship of Aten.
I mean, the Levites were supposed to be the priests, right? I'm reading a history of the Jewish people at the time of Jesus (give or take a century or so), and by the time of Jesus, Levites were little more than janitors and accountants, while the priests were people who were appointed by whatever puppet leader was in charge at the time.
Places of worship and doctrine have always been about political power and influence, no matter when or where you are on Earth.
Avoiding the fact they actually weren't, historically, from what I've been reading, it's a logical thing to say. Much like modern Israel, most of the citizens were brought in from elsewhere and have very little to do with the history that never happened anyway. Many cities in Israel weren't even founded by Jews or Hebrews, but by Greeks and Syrians and Romans. Jewish rebellions and governments never lasted. They wanted the country to be something it simply wasn't.
Now, it's arguable that they were in bondage to Rome, like previous generations had been bonded to Syria and Greece and Persia and ...
But, no, not Egypt. At least, not in the sense of the Moses story. The closest you could come was all the times Egypt's borders included what we call Israel.
And those were? Fighting kings, tending some sheep, rescuing bratty nephews, etc. That's about it. Nothing truly profound, when you think about it.
But Jesus is lying. No scene where Satan actually appears does he lie. At all. Ever. The most he does is goad someone into doing something evil, but that's not telling a lie. It wouldn't even be effective if that darkness wasn't already there in your heart. Satan tempts God to smite Job and God swallows the bait wholesale, even admitting what He was doing was for no good reason.
He's not mentioned in Genesis, at least the Garden of Eden story. Either Jesus is lying or he's using a non-canon story. Either way, it's still false.
Jesus tells the truth about as well as God does. It's a shame, really.[/QUOTE
The way it sounds, I don't think Jesus could have been a rabbi given his apparently limited knowledge of Judaism.
I believe this covers it:
Isa. 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given; and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
Isaiah 9:6 isn't quoted by Christian authors in the Bible.When the Christians created their new religion
Isaiah 9:5 and Isaiah 9:7 are both Messianic events that haven't happened yet; garments rolled in blood is ascribed to the Lord at Judgement day (Isaiah 34), and the ever lasting kingdom is the Messianic age after that.As shown in the Tanakh (Original Testament), this past-tense verse refers a prophecy that has already happened.
When the Christians created their new religion, they took the true words of the Tanakh and twisted them into verses like the one above to support their new theology. The verse in the Original Testament (that is, I s a 9:5) reads "For a child has been born to us, a son has been given to us, and the dominion will rest on his shoulder; the Wondrous Adviser, Mighty G-d, Eternal Father, called his name Sar-Shalom; "
As shown in the Tanakh (Original Testament), this past-tense verse refers a prophecy that has already happened. All the titles are about G-d and the son is the righteous King Hezekiah.
What Tanach are you using? The one I use has "has". Well, actually, it has something else entirely, כִּי־יֶ֣לֶד יֻלַּד־לָ֗נוּ בֵּן נִתַּן־לָ֔נוּYou must have whole different Tanakh.
For the Tanakh that I have reads Isaiah 9:6-->"For a child is born to us, a son is given to us, Dominion will rest on his shoulders, and he will be given the name Pele - Yo' etz el Gibbor
Avi - ad Sar Shalom, wonder of a Counselor, Might God, Father of Eternity,
Prince of Peace"
Where as in your Tanakh you have the word ( has ) having the verse saying something that has already happen.
But in the Tanakh that I have the word
( Is ) saying something that has not yet happened.