How in the world did Christians get Jesus from the Old Testament?

[Apologes]

Jesus told them.

 

[Faithofchristian]

It's a Jewish text that has absolutely nothing to do with Jesus.

So how did Christians extrapolate that somehow, the Old Testament had anything to do with Jesus?

First there were many Jews who understood the old Jewish testaments, That recognized what was written in the old Jewish testaments Prophecy revealed Christ Jesus was the Promise One.

You have the 12 disciples and all those who followed Jesus being Jews.
Therefore there are Jews who do believe Jesus was prophesized in the old Jewish testaments.
Therefore you have those Jews who do believe Jesus was the Promise Messiah to come.
Then you have Jews who do not believe.

So when you say, "It's a Jewish text that has absolutely nothing to do with Jesus.

The first ones to believe Jesus, Were Jews
Christians were no where around at the time Jesus was here on earth. Jesus went to his own people first which were the Jews.
But as it is, there are those Jews who believe Jesus is the Promise One.
And there are those Jews who did not believe, these are those Jews that had Jesus crucified on the Cross.

Then the 12 disciples went out into the world to give the gospel about Jesus. So this is how Christians comes by Jesus as being in the Jewish old testament scriptures by the
12 Jewish disciples and those Jews who followed Jesus, that's how christianity comes by Jesus in the Jewish old testaments.

So to answer your question, So how did Christians extrapolate, that some how, That old testament had anything to do with Jesus.
By the 12 Jewish disciples and by those Jews who followed Jesus.

That's how christianity comes by Jesus in the Jewish old testament.
So it was handed down by Jews to christianity.
That's how Christians comes by Jesus in the Jewish old testaments. By Jews themselves.

 

[Sleeppy]

Was Jesus Jewish?

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

That's how christianity comes by Jesus in the Jewish old testament.
So it was handed down by Jews to christianity.
That's how Christians comes by Jesus in the Jewish old testaments. By Jews themselves.

Didn't Hebrews/Israelites/Jews also believe in other gods, per the bible? Apparently it's not that hard to think that group will worship other gods.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Was Jesus Jewish?

From what has been recorded in the Bible, I have heard some say that Jesus knew very little about Judaism.

 

[Sleeppy]

From what has been recorded in the Bible, I have heard some say that Jesus knew very little about Judaism.

"Some" contemporary Jews?

Contemporary Judaism is somewhat removed from 1st century Judaism. Judaism is malleable, and has expressed that throughout its history.

The texts themselves, the scribes, Rabbis, sages, interpreters, etc all lend themselves to variances of opinion.

What isn't arguable: Jesus was a Jew interpreting Judaism for the Jews and gentiles of his dominion. He was learned. He taught with authority. He is dissected and challenged by Jewish scholars, to this day.

It's all propaganda.

 

[Faithofchristian]

Didn't Hebrews/Israelites/Jews also believe in other gods, per the bible? Apparently it's not that hard to think that group will worship other gods.

There were some Jews of Israel who were into going after other gods.
But the true Jews of Israel worship only the true God of Israel.

But the question is, which Jews of Israel?

Even Christ Jesus denounce those Jews of Israel, That came to him saying, They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest you, You shall be made free" John 8:33.

Notice these Jews said, and never in bondage to any man?
Now that's amazing, Seeing how Israel was in bondage in Egypt 400 years.

And then these Jews continued to question Jesus, They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father, Jesus said unto them,
If you were Abraham's children, you would do the works of Abraham" John 8:39

Notice Jesus said ( If you were Abraham's children) meaning they are not Abraham's children.

Now in Verse 44 Jesus is going to tell on them, Who exactly is their father.

You are of your father the devil, and the lust of your father you will do, he was a murderer from the beginning, and love not the truth, because there is no truth in him, When he speaks a lie,
he speaks of his own: for he is a lair, and the father of the lie" John 8:44.

Notice Jesus said ( he was a murderer from the beginning) So when was the beginning?
This being two folded.Meaning Able was not the first murder.
So when was beginning, that the devil committed murder?

Therefore you have those Jews who are of their father the devil.

And you have those Jews who are of their Father the Almighty God.Christ Jesus.

 

[Akivah]

From what has been recorded in the Bible, I have heard some say that Jesus knew very little about Judaism.

That's correct. The things and events written about that guy prove that he broke laws and was ignorant of proper behavior.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

It's a Jewish text that has absolutely nothing to do with Jesus.

So how did Christians extrapolate that somehow, the Old Testament had anything to do with Jesus?

B Bible Mining
Bible mining can find connecions between just about anything.
The JW's are the experts at it, and can even find connectios between not consuming blood, and transfusions, which would not even be invented fo more than two thousand years.

 

[Nakosis]

It's a Jewish text that has absolutely nothing to do with Jesus.

So how did Christians extrapolate that somehow, the Old Testament had anything to do with Jesus?

Paul, really, right?

Matthew makes a great effort to make a connection but this was written after Paul. Paul had a great influence on the direction Christianity took. Paul as a Jew perhaps felt a personal need to make the connection. The gospel story was rewritten is such a way to make this connection.

Suppose Paul wasn't in the picture. Maybe Jesus then becomes another Jewish Prophet or Rabbi of influence.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Paul, really, right?

Matthew makes a great effort to make a connection but this was written after Paul. Paul had a great influence on the direction Christianity took. Paul as a Jew perhaps felt a personal need to make the connection. The gospel story was rewritten is such a way to make this connection.

Suppose Paul wasn't in the picture. Maybe Jesus then becomes another Jewish Prophet or Rabbi of influence.

The way it sounds, I don't think Jesus could have been a rabbi given his apparently limited knowledge of Judaism.

 

[Muffled]

I think it might be easy to see why people might think Christians take that out of context. You said Old Testament? That the verse about a future king?

I believe this covers it:
Isa. 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given; and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

 

[Muffled]

If jesus is god then he made himself human by getting Mary pregnant so she can give birth to him? Whoever wrote that in the OT sounds like they were on some heavy drugs.

I believe life is stranger than fiction sometimes.

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

It's all propaganda.

I agree. It's amazing what Jesus' followers tried to sell.

But the true Jews of Israel worship only the true God of Israel.

No, the Jews who followed the authors' dictates were considered "true". Historically, however, that's like saying Europeans never had sex with non-Europeans but the DNA tests came back and ... that was a lie.

In other words, history is quite clear the "average Joseph" didn't believe what one guy at a particular location wrote about angrily in his bedroom. Monotheism reeks of religious monopoly: the priests/prophets/whatever wanted absolute control over the food/money, ahem, the "religious devotion" of the people. We saw this in Egypt as well with the worship of Aten.

I mean, the Levites were supposed to be the priests, right? I'm reading a history of the Jewish people at the time of Jesus (give or take a century or so), and by the time of Jesus, Levites were little more than janitors and accountants, while the priests were people who were appointed by whatever puppet leader was in charge at the time.

Places of worship and doctrine have always been about political power and influence, no matter when or where you are on Earth.

Notice these Jews said, and never in bondage to any man?
Now that's amazing, Seeing how Israel was in bondage in Egypt 400 years.

Avoiding the fact they actually weren't, historically, from what I've been reading, it's a logical thing to say. Much like modern Israel, most of the citizens were brought in from elsewhere and have very little to do with the history that never happened anyway. Many cities in Israel weren't even founded by Jews or Hebrews, but by Greeks and Syrians and Romans. Jewish rebellions and governments never lasted. They wanted the country to be something it simply wasn't.

Now, it's arguable that they were in bondage to Rome, like previous generations had been bonded to Syria and Greece and Persia and ...

But, no, not Egypt. At least, not in the sense of the Moses story. The closest you could come was all the times Egypt's borders included what we call Israel.

And then these Jews continued to question Jesus, They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father, Jesus said unto them,
If you were Abraham's children, you would do the works of Abraham"

And those were? Fighting kings, tending some sheep, rescuing bratty nephews, etc. That's about it. Nothing truly profound, when you think about it.

You are of your father the devil, and the lust of your father you will do, he was a murderer from the beginning, and love not the truth, because there is no truth in him, When he speaks a lie, he speaks of his own: for he is a lair, and the father of the lie"

But Jesus is lying. No scene where Satan actually appears does he lie. At all. Ever. The most he does is goad someone into doing something evil, but that's not telling a lie. It wouldn't even be effective if that darkness wasn't already there in your heart. Satan tempts God to smite Job and God swallows the bait wholesale, even admitting what He was doing was for no good reason.

Job 2
3 And the Lord said to Satan, “Have you considered my servant Job, that there is none like him on the earth, a blameless and upright man, who fears God and turns away from evil? He still holds fast his integrity, although you incited me against him to destroy him without reason.”

Notice Jesus said ( he was a murderer from the beginning) So when was the beginning?

He's not mentioned in Genesis, at least the Garden of Eden story. Either Jesus is lying or he's using a non-canon story. Either way, it's still false.

And you have those Jews who are of their Father the Almighty God.Christ Jesus.

Jesus tells the truth about as well as God does. It's a shame, really.

 

[Faithofchristian]

I agree. It's amazing what Jesus' followers tried to sell.


No, the Jews who followed the authors' dictates were considered "true". Historically, however, that's like saying Europeans never had sex with non-Europeans but the DNA tests came back and ... that was a lie.

In other words, history is quite clear the "average Joseph" didn't believe what one guy at a particular location wrote about angrily in his bedroom. Monotheism reeks of religious monopoly: the priests/prophets/whatever wanted absolute control over the food/money, ahem, the "religious devotion" of the people. We saw this in Egypt as well with the worship of Aten.

I mean, the Levites were supposed to be the priests, right? I'm reading a history of the Jewish people at the time of Jesus (give or take a century or so), and by the time of Jesus, Levites were little more than janitors and accountants, while the priests were people who were appointed by whatever puppet leader was in charge at the time.

Places of worship and doctrine have always been about political power and influence, no matter when or where you are on Earth.


Avoiding the fact they actually weren't, historically, from what I've been reading, it's a logical thing to say. Much like modern Israel, most of the citizens were brought in from elsewhere and have very little to do with the history that never happened anyway. Many cities in Israel weren't even founded by Jews or Hebrews, but by Greeks and Syrians and Romans. Jewish rebellions and governments never lasted. They wanted the country to be something it simply wasn't.

Now, it's arguable that they were in bondage to Rome, like previous generations had been bonded to Syria and Greece and Persia and ...

But, no, not Egypt. At least, not in the sense of the Moses story. The closest you could come was all the times Egypt's borders included what we call Israel.


And those were? Fighting kings, tending some sheep, rescuing bratty nephews, etc. That's about it. Nothing truly profound, when you think about it.


But Jesus is lying. No scene where Satan actually appears does he lie. At all. Ever. The most he does is goad someone into doing something evil, but that's not telling a lie. It wouldn't even be effective if that darkness wasn't already there in your heart. Satan tempts God to smite Job and God swallows the bait wholesale, even admitting what He was doing was for no good reason.




He's not mentioned in Genesis, at least the Garden of Eden story. Either Jesus is lying or he's using a non-canon story. Either way, it's still false.


Jesus tells the truth about as well as God does. It's a shame, really.[/QUOTE

 

[Nakosis]

The way it sounds, I don't think Jesus could have been a rabbi given his apparently limited knowledge of Judaism.

Maybe not. Maybe he was creating a new theology based on his own perception of God.

 

[Akivah]

I believe this covers it:
Isa. 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given; and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

When the Christians created their new religion, they took the true words of the Tanakh and twisted them into verses like the one above to support their new theology. The verse in the Original Testament (that is, I s a 9:5) reads "For a child has been born to us, a son has been given to us, and the dominion will rest on his shoulder; the Wondrous Adviser, Mighty G-d, Eternal Father, called his name Sar-Shalom; "

As shown in the Tanakh (Original Testament), this past-tense verse refers a prophecy that has already happened. All the titles are about G-d and the son is the righteous King Hezekiah.

 

[wizanda]

When the Christians created their new religion

Isaiah 9:6 isn't quoted by Christian authors in the Bible.

As shown in the Tanakh (Original Testament), this past-tense verse refers a prophecy that has already happened.

Isaiah 9:5 and Isaiah 9:7 are both Messianic events that haven't happened yet; garments rolled in blood is ascribed to the Lord at Judgement day (Isaiah 34), and the ever lasting kingdom is the Messianic age after that.

Prophets write in past tense for future events that will happen; almost like that enforces it will happen.

In my opinion.

 

[Faithofchristian]

When the Christians created their new religion, they took the true words of the Tanakh and twisted them into verses like the one above to support their new theology. The verse in the Original Testament (that is, I s a 9:5) reads "For a child has been born to us, a son has been given to us, and the dominion will rest on his shoulder; the Wondrous Adviser, Mighty G-d, Eternal Father, called his name Sar-Shalom; "

As shown in the Tanakh (Original Testament), this past-tense verse refers a prophecy that has already happened. All the titles are about G-d and the son is the righteous King Hezekiah.

You must have whole different Tanakh.

For the Tanakh that I have reads Isaiah 9:6-->"For a child is born to us, a son is given to us, Dominion will rest on his shoulders, and he will be given the name Pele - Yo' etz el Gibbor
Avi - ad Sar Shalom, wonder of a Counselor, Might God, Father of Eternity,
Prince of Peace"

Where as in your Tanakh you have the word ( has ) having the verse saying something that has already happen.

But in the Tanakh that I have the word
( Is ) saying something that has not yet happened.

 

[rosends]

You must have whole different Tanakh.

For the Tanakh that I have reads Isaiah 9:6-->"For a child is born to us, a son is given to us, Dominion will rest on his shoulders, and he will be given the name Pele - Yo' etz el Gibbor
Avi - ad Sar Shalom, wonder of a Counselor, Might God, Father of Eternity,
Prince of Peace"

Where as in your Tanakh you have the word ( has ) having the verse saying something that has already happen.

But in the Tanakh that I have the word
( Is ) saying something that has not yet happened.

What Tanach are you using? The one I use has "has". Well, actually, it has something else entirely, כִּי־יֶ֣לֶד יֻלַּד־לָ֗נוּ בֵּן נִתַּן־לָ֔נוּ