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Featured How in the world did Christians get Jesus from the Old Testament?

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by Nowhere Man, Nov 12, 2017.

  1. Nowhere Man

    Nowhere Man Bompu Zen Man.

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    It's a Jewish text that has absolutely nothing to do with Jesus.

    So how did Christians extrapolate that somehow, the Old Testament had anything to do with Jesus?
     
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  2. Rival

    Rival Noachide Fundamentalist Pro-Semite
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    Out of context prophecies and non-prophecies turned into prophecies mostly.
     
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  3. Fool

    Fool Well-Known Member
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    alan watts implies that it was as a historical and factual vs metaphorical and myth. they got hung up on the messenger, the mail man, at the expense of the good news.

    the actions of the play, the show, are still the same, but the actors, characters change.


    I AM that i am.

    thank you for the nudges
     
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  4. Brickjectivity

    Brickjectivity simple man
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    :) I'd be happy to explain in certain forums but not in this one. Look, you are antagonistic about Christianity in general and dismissive, and I think that is a mistake. I think you should, if you are a Buddhist, be thinking about the fact that its scriptures can be interpreted as compatible with Buddhism. It is compatible with Buddhist technique, compassion and the annihilationist interpretation of Christianity is compatible with Zen. Its also possible to make the case from Christian bibles that Christians ought to be Buddhists. In fact it would be quite simple (though not easy or cheap) to establish a Christian Buddhist temple, both fully Buddhist and fully Christian, no heaven-going. Someone could call it a new Buddhist school if names mattered and be remembered for thousands of years as the founder of a new Buddhist school, that is -- if they had the compassion to be interested in such a feat, to really care about people.

    The short answer is that Jesus is a derived concept.
     
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  5. Kemosloby

    Kemosloby Well-Known Member
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    You're already wrong since Jesus was Jewish it did have something to do with Jesus. Perhaps you should start there with your contemplation on the subject.
     
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  6. Rival

    Rival Noachide Fundamentalist Pro-Semite
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    That's sort of like saying, Well Gene Wilder was Jewish therefore it has something to do with him.

    That's not how it works.
     
    #6 Rival, Nov 12, 2017
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2017
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  7. Kemosloby

    Kemosloby Well-Known Member
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    Baby steps, I wasn't saying the the entire old testament is about Jesus yet. Jesus quoted the Jewish scripture therefore it is false to say that the Old testament and Jesus are totally unrelated.
     
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  8. Thief

    Thief Rogue Theologian

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    He did not come to abolish the old law.....but to fulfill it

    and sometime after He was gone the shift in belief produced a new label.....Christian

    but in fairness to the op.....
    I do not believe Jesus came to create a new religion
    only to correct the quirks of His own people and their methods
     
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  9. Nowhere Man

    Nowhere Man Bompu Zen Man.

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    I was referring to Old Testament typology by which Christians see various passage's as referencing Jesus specifically.
     
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  10. Augustus

    Augustus the Unreasonable

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    They start with the idea that he is the messiah then work back. Once you 'know' he is the messiah, then you know he must have been foretold.
     
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  11. Thief

    Thief Rogue Theologian

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    people of that time .....attempting to find Jesus as the answer to old prophecy?
     
  12. Nowhere Man

    Nowhere Man Bompu Zen Man.

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    To clarify, why and where do Christians get the idea that the Old Testament is somehow about Jesus in it's narratives whereas Judaism makes no acknowledgement about any mention of Jesus made in the Old Testament whatsoever?
     
  13. Rival

    Rival Noachide Fundamentalist Pro-Semite
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    Because the Christian Testament does. It quotes prophecies and even non-prophecies out of context. They say their man fulfilled these prophecies. Some prophecies are completely made up and Paul twists the verses so much that they are barely recognisable.

    Pardon me, but you seem very unfamiliar with Christianity.
     
  14. Nowhere Man

    Nowhere Man Bompu Zen Man.

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    Well considering that Christianity is not Judaism, the Old Testament arguably is incompatible with the New Testament.

    There's nothing really that harmonizes the two when you really think about it.
     
  15. Rival

    Rival Noachide Fundamentalist Pro-Semite
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    There isn't but they will try.
     
    #15 Rival, Nov 12, 2017
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2017
  16. Mister Emu

    Mister Emu Emu Extraordinaire
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    And Christianity is a Jewish faith understanding the texts that equally belong to us and our forefathers.

    Typology isn't saying a passage references Jesus specifically, where did you get that idea? It is saying that a passage or event is a foreshadowing of the things that were to come later, in fullness.

    See first answer. The Christians who made those connections were Jews. Judaism does not acknowledge Jesus in any meaningful way as those within it reject Him as their Lord.

    See first answer. The first Christians were faithful(some argue not so much) Jews following their Jewish faith.
     
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  17. Brickjectivity

    Brickjectivity simple man
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    It doesn't matter one way or the other, because there are hundreds of millions of Christians.

    I do not think you know what you are talking about when you say this, however its possible that you are coincidentally correct or incorrect. You would probably not be the person to ask.
     
  18. Kuzcotopia

    Kuzcotopia If you can read this, you are as lucky as I am.

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    Yes, there is one thing.

    Blood sacrifice.

    In the Old Testament, it lays out that when god is upset with you or to gain his favor, you need to kill a dove, or an ox, or in rare cases. . . Your own daughter. It's the Iron Age traditions of blood magic. . . Killing animals or people to gain favor or penance of a god.

    Christians see Jesus as the ultimate blood sacrifice, a god taking human form, sacrificing himself to himself, to give humans an opportunity to gain its favor or absolve themselves of the sinful behavior that separate themselves from god.

    For a Christian, the Old Testament establishes this blood sacrifice idea as an effective practice. . . And killing Jesus was infinitely more effective because it's the last blood sacrifice they needed to get god to chill on his anger and desire to punish everybody for . . . I dunno, masturbating or whatever.
     
  19. Rival

    Rival Noachide Fundamentalist Pro-Semite
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    A blood sacrifice is not needed for everything and G-d never demanded a man's daughter. The man in question promised to sacrifice the first thing that came out of his house upon his return. That thing happened to be his daughter.

    The Jewish people aren't making sacrifices now as there is no temple. This isn't a problem because one can simply make teshuva (repentance) in this instance.

    You also forget that poor people could make grain offerings if they couldn't afford an animal.
     
    #19 Rival, Nov 12, 2017
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2017
  20. Kuzcotopia

    Kuzcotopia If you can read this, you are as lucky as I am.

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    You just defended the practice of blood sacrifice. . . . so do Christians. Hence the link the OP refers to.
     
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