• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Is it Plausible that a Real God...?

lewisnotmiller

lewisnotmiller

Grand Hat
Staff member
Premium Member
Sunstone said:
Is it plausible that a real god would care so much about whether or not people believed in It that It would consign non-believers to eternal torment? Or is the notion so absurd as to provide reasonable evidence that any such God must be a myth?
Click to expand...

It's plausible, but not if you add qualities like 'omnibenevolent' or even 'omniscient' to it, in my opinion. Power doesn't equate to maturity.

Sunstone said:
I think the latter. The notion that a genuine deity would be so petty as to consign to eternal torment non-believers is not only too absurd but too stupid to be attributed to a real deity. Obviously, only humans could come up with something as ridiculous, stupid, and ugly as that.
Click to expand...

Worshipping such a character seems interesting to me. 'Sure my ever-loving God will punish your kids if they don't worship him, but they can worship him at any time, which proves his love.'

'So...you love and worship a being that would put my kids in Hell? Do you do it out of fear? Please say yes, nothing else is going to make sense to me...'
 
DavidFirth

DavidFirth

Well-Known Member
Sunstone said:
That's just a round about way of re-stating the point made in the OP that your alleged god requires belief for salvation and consigns non-believers to hell.
Click to expand...

Not quite. By choosing sin over righteousness Man has chosen hell. God intervened to save Man from his mistakes.
 
idav

idav

Being
Premium Member
Sunstone said:
Is it plausible that a real god would care so much about whether or not people believed in It that It would consign non-believers to eternal torment? Or is the notion so absurd as to provide reasonable evidence that any such God must be a myth?

I think the latter. The notion that a genuine deity would be so petty as to consign to eternal torment non-believers is not only too absurd but too stupid to be attributed to a real deity. Obviously, only humans could come up with something as ridiculous, stupid, and ugly as that.
Click to expand...
I tend to agree, the "believe or go to hell" reeks of a parent just telling children "cause I said so" instead of reasonable explanations as to why something is so. Surly god is more sophisticated than that.
 
Etritonakin

Etritonakin

Well-Known Member
Sunstone said:
Is it plausible that a real god would care so much about whether or not people believed in It that It would consign non-believers to eternal torment? Or is the notion so absurd as to provide reasonable evidence that any such God must be a myth?

I think the latter. The notion that a genuine deity would be so petty as to consign to eternal torment non-believers is not only too absurd but too stupid to be attributed to a real deity. Obviously, only humans could come up with something as ridiculous, stupid, and ugly as that.
Click to expand...

A character in a movie was asked if he really thought God cared about his insignificant life. The character replied with something like "Only God is big enough to be so small"

If all verses concerning the lake of fire are taken together, it becomes clear that none will actually be tormented without end -though the misconception is understandable, as the word of God was purposefully arranged so as to require an in-depth study (or one would be "broken, snared and taken" by misconception).

God cares so much that he will be "as a refiner's fire" -and part of that process is the lake of fire. He gave the creation over to futility in hope, and will make every last little thing perfect again.
Creation is essentially causing an imbalance in order to create balance in a new arrangement.

1 Cor 3:13Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. 14If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. 15If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
 
arthra

arthra

Baha'i
Sunstone said:
Is it plausible that a real god would care so much about whether or not people believed in It that It would consign non-believers to eternal torment? Or is the notion so absurd as to provide reasonable evidence that any such God must be a myth?

I think the latter. The notion that a genuine deity would be so petty as to consign to eternal torment non-believers is not only too absurd but too stupid to be attributed to a real deity. Obviously, only humans could come up with something as ridiculous, stupid, and ugly as that.
Click to expand...

In my belief it is our response to God that is in our freedom and will to accept or reject the Divine... If we reject God then we alienate ourselves... this can last awhile but not an "eternity" as we can slowly turn to the Light and be restored.
 
Grandliseur

Grandliseur

Well-Known Member
Sunstone said:
Is it plausible that a real god would care so much about whether or not people believed in It that It would consign non-believers to eternal torment? Or is the notion so absurd as to provide reasonable evidence that any such God must be a myth?

I think the latter. The notion that a genuine deity would be so petty as to consign to eternal torment non-believers is not only too absurd but too stupid to be attributed to a real deity. Obviously, only humans could come up with something as ridiculous, stupid, and ugly as that.
Click to expand...
Hell No:
The fact of the matter in regard to Biblical teaching - is that there is no survival of death into hell or heaven; death is a sleep like condition and death is called destruction. That should pretty much sum that issue up; but, it doesn't, it seems.

The promise to the righteous is a recreation called resurrection into an earthly paradise under kingdom rule here on earth; that is the promise for the great majority of those who will be called back.
Churches - faith in chains
When we see that so many churches teach things not found in the Bible in a harmonious examination, it is obvious that churches have become a social grouping that forces each church group into accepting the dogma of so and so church. Many people cannot accept, with good reason, that God would make people suffer for an eternity for having disobeyed him for a few decades while living their human lives. While I would like some such as Hitler, Mao, Lenin, and other such people to suffer in some kind of hell fire or torment, the teaching is that they simply shall be destroyed.
There seems to be little difference, though, with the atheist groupings where this world also is using peer pressure and social groups to make people tow the line, so to say, in their creed.
Worship - One main purpose
One main purpose, but by no means its only, is to make those who worship God - obey his rules. These rules are for the purpose of creating law abiding well functioning societies on earth; societies that do not ruin the earth, that take care of its poor, etc. Even Gandhi, a non Christian, acknowledged that if we acted like Christ we would have a society that functioned much better than we do now.
The Promise
The promise to the righteous, and to many now dead who never knew God, is an earth in which the present governments shall be removed and one government shall be established over all earth to rule all without prejudice or partiality, letting all share of the profits of the earth without the super rich and super poor we see today, without the destruction of earth as we see today. The rulers of this government shall be former humans now given spirit bodies to remove them from the frailties and temptations of humans so that government shall be without the flaws we see today with bribery and under the table shady things.
 
MJFlores

MJFlores

Well-Known Member
Sunstone said:
Is it plausible that a real god would care so much about whether or not people believed in It that It would consign non-believers to eternal torment? Or is the notion so absurd as to provide reasonable evidence that any such God must be a myth?

I think the latter. The notion that a genuine deity would be so petty as to consign to eternal torment non-believers is not only too absurd but too stupid to be attributed to a real deity. Obviously, only humans could come up with something as ridiculous, stupid, and ugly as that.
Click to expand...

How was the universe formed?

Others would say, billions of years ago, before the big bang, there was nothing - then there was something. That is scientific faith. What does the bible say?

Hebrews 11:3
By faith we understand that the universe was formed at God’s command, so that what is seen was not made out of what was visible.

w1RNf6.gif


Now why was the universe formed? For NASA to have a budget? For us to see the big accident? The bible says this:

Hebrews 1:2
but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe.

So everything we see is for the Lord Jesus Christ.

Now going to hell - a real god would care so much about whether or not people believed in.

Well, why did the real God send his Son?

John 3:17
For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him.

Nothing is permanent in the world, everything has an expiry. The world would end - the scientist would even agree to this, that nothing last forever. A rogue asteroid, global warming, gamma ray burst - according to their different speculations.

But before it ends,

Matthew 24:30
“Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earth will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory.
images



Mark 13:27
And he will send his angels and gather his elect from the four winds, from the ends of the earth to the ends of the heavens.

images


Why did Jesus say "all the peoples of the earth will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven"? Because they are going to be left behind.

Matthew 24:40-41
At that time two men will be working in a field: one will be taken away, the other will be left behind. Two women will be at a mill grinding meal: one will be taken away, the other will be left behind.

View attachment 18107

With regards to hell, a place of eternal torment - there is no hell YET. People - the wicked like Adolf Hitler, Idi Amin, Caligula and the rest of the petty criminals - anyone for that matter [my relatives or yours], aren't in hell, YET - however they will ultimately be there in the end of all things - the final judgement.

images


For now...
 
The Emperor of Mankind

The Emperor of Mankind

Currently the galaxy's spookiest paraplegic
Sunstone said:
Is it plausible that a real god would care so much about whether or not people believed in It that It would consign non-believers to eternal torment? Or is the notion so absurd as to provide reasonable evidence that any such God must be a myth?
Click to expand...

While I don't think the absurdity of the eternal Hellfire torture narrative is itself a strike against the likelihood of the Christian god existing it definitely is a strike against my wanting to worship him. If this is truly how he feels then I want no part of him or his cultus.
 
L

LukeS

Active Member
Pre-existence - Wikipedia
IFAIK in Islam there was a pre-existence where we all acknowledged our creator. The closest sign we may have is that we have a "innate belief in God" ie a fitra. Like buber's "I-thou" we can accept or deny it, but its there.
 
P

Ponder This

Well-Known Member
Sunstone said:
Is it plausible that a real god would care so much about whether or not people believed in It that It would consign non-believers to eternal torment?
Click to expand...

Yes, it is plausible. People do it, so why wouldn't it be plausible for a real god to do it?

Sunstone said:
is the notion so absurd as to provide reasonable evidence that any such God must be a myth?
Click to expand...

No, that is insufficient.

Sunstone said:
The notion that a genuine deity would be so petty as to consign to eternal torment non-believers is not only too absurd but too stupid to be attributed to a real deity. Obviously, only humans could come up with something as ridiculous, stupid, and ugly as that.
Click to expand...

I see no basis to assume that a real god cannot have attributes we associate with humans.
 
osgart

osgart

Nothing my eye, Something for sure
makes you wonder about the people that purport this god, and the successes they enjoy because of it.

anything that requires blind trust preys on the naive, and is brainwashing for alterior motives.

but believe it or not some highly intelligent people genuinely believe and are convicted that the Bible is the truth. The power of delusion is strong in humanity, and so is fearfulness.

Christianity is a bad salesman, they sell you the shine of it, and the rest is trash.
 
Willamena

Willamena

Just me
Premium Member
Sunstone said:
Is it plausible that a real god would care so much about whether or not people believed in It that It would consign non-believers to eternal torment? Or is the notion so absurd as to provide reasonable evidence that any such God must be a myth?
Click to expand...
I think it's every bit as plausible as people willing to hate, brutalize, abuse and murder other people just because of the colour of their skin, their gender, their sexual preferences, or their religion.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top