shmogie
Well-Known Member
He can do whatever he chooses with what he created.
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The FLOOD, God's Great Failure?
- Thread starter Skwim
- Start date
The Emperor of Mankind
Currently the galaxy's spookiest paraplegic
psychoslice
Veteran Member
I don't believe any story in the bible makes any sense when taken literally, the flood included.
Thehoodedmonk
Member
I only post the following in light of the contention that god is infallible and can do no wrong.
Genesis 6:5-7 (NKJV)
5 Then the Lord saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
6 And the Lord was sorry that He had made man on the earth, and He was grieved in His heart. 7 So the Lord said, “I will destroy man whom I have
created from the face of the earth, both man and beast, creeping thing and birds of the air, for I am sorry that I have made them.”
Now if anyone sees the flood as a success please point it out.
.
It is obvious to me that not one of you understand "Noah's Flood", or the reason for it. God did not destroy the world because it was evil, for men became just as evil after the flood as they were before the flood, so what would have been the point of the flood? The Bible tells us that the world was evil, but does not say that is the reason for the flood, it says the reason for the flood, and I quote: "And God looked upon the earth, and behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted his way upon the earth." The flood was not to destroy evil, but to destroy corrupt flesh. Now I know you are not getting this, nothing usual about this. The rarest thing on this planet is the truth. The way you get corrupt flesh is to interbreed with something that is not of your own flesh, like having sex with a bull you might get a Minotaur, with a wolf you might get a werewolf, with a horse or goat you might get Satyr ("But wild beast of the desert shall lie there; and their houses shall be full of doleful creatures; and owls shall dwell there, and satyrs shall dance there." Isaiah 13:21. The first human to corrupt his flesh with a beast was Cain: "If thou doest well, shall thou not be accepted? And if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him." (Genesis 4:7). "he" being a beast, although he sounds male, it was probably a female beast, unless we are talking about homosexuality. The whole earth had become corrupt, and in order to save true man, God brought on the flood, and true man was saved through Noah and his family. And now, once again, the whole world is nearly corrupt: "But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.....and knew not until the flood came, and took them all away;" Saint Matthew 24: 37 and 39. This is why God said: "And except those days should be shortened, there shall be not flesh saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened." Saint Matthew 24:22. So, if one has understanding, one realizes that God and his flood was not a failure, but a great success.I only post the following in light of the contention that god is infallible and can do no wrong.
Genesis 6:5-7 (NKJV)
5 Then the Lord saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
6 And the Lord was sorry that He had made man on the earth, and He was grieved in His heart. 7 So the Lord said, “I will destroy man whom I have
created from the face of the earth, both man and beast, creeping thing and birds of the air, for I am sorry that I have made them.”
Now if anyone sees the flood as a success please point it out.
.
If I may address these points AGS....
1. No reason to not see this coming as he's (apparently) omniscient;
It had more to do with God's omniscience in foreseeing the need to teach humans a valuable lesson. As free willed beings, humans had to discover for themselves the full extent of what it meant to disobey their Creator.
But this whole scenario was not just about the wickedness of humans, because there was a much more important reason for their aberrant behavior. The violence and wickedness that was prevailing in Noah's day was precipitated by a race of gigantic bullies. The Bible indicates that rebellious angels materialized human form and took human women as wives....."all whom they chose". (Genesis 6:1-2) Their offspring were called "Nephilim" literally meaning "fellers" or 'those who caused others to fall down'. This race of freakish humans had no right to exist because they did not come from God and they were not "sons of Adam". Their bullying behavior was increasing wickedness far too rapidly for God's purpose to be fulfilled, so he stepped in to slow things down.
The flood had a two fold purpose....firstly, it wiped the Nephilim out of existence...and secondly, by flooding the whole earth and giving their angelic fathers nowhere to hide, God forced them to dematerialize and go back to the spirit realm, where he dealt with them by stripping them of their ability to materialize ever again. This state of constraint and spiritual darkness was called Tartarus. (2 Peter 2:4-5) There is no record of demon angels being able to take on human form again, even though faithful angels did when carrying messages to God's earthly servants.
2. Literally every other non-violent option at his disposal because he's (apparently) omnipotent
By this statement, you (and the OP) miss the point entirely as to the reason why the flood was necessary in the first place. The state of the human race as a result of the activities of these rebel angels and their freakish children, resulted in drastic action being needed. It was not time to establish the rule of his kingdom for millenniums yet, so this was merely a stopgap to bring God's purpose back on track. It was not intended to fix the state of the human race just yet....that was for a designated time in the future.
God "saw that man’s wickedness was great on the earth and that every inclination of the thoughts of his heart was only bad all the time." so he wiped the slate clean and started fresh with the only righteous family in existence. Rebellion again rose its ugly head with Noah's great grandson, Nimrod....and the rest, as they say...is history. (Genesis 6:4-8)
If you do not understand the Bible's whole message, then not much will make sense. Of course, nothing will make sense if you don't want it to either. The flood and man's response to Noah's warning were used by Jesus to picture what would happen again when the Kingdom was due to be established on earth. That time is now upon us and again, the earth is filled with violence and its population is ignoring the warning. (Matthew 24:37-39)
Its all about the big picture.
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Skwim
Veteran Member
WOW! This is certainly a new one. Let's take a look.
Well, chapter 6:11 does say the earth was corrupt, but it isn't stated that "corruptness" is the reason he sent the flood; however, earlier on 6:5-7 does give the reason:
5 Then the Lord saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
6 And the Lord was sorry that He had made man on the earth, and He was grieved in His heart.
7 So the Lord said, “I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth, both man and beast, creeping thing and birds of the air, for I am sorry that I have made them.”
6 And the Lord was sorry that He had made man on the earth, and He was grieved in His heart.
7 So the Lord said, “I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth, both man and beast, creeping thing and birds of the air, for I am sorry that I have made them.”
"So," is god's the conclusion
And this is what god will do
The So is particularly important because it signals the "Because of this then this" relationship. This isn't to say that the corruptness doesn't play a part in god's decision, but it can hardly be cited as thee reason.
Biologically this is as possible as successfully mating with a fig tree. So you can scratch this silliness.
.
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Mary Blackchurch
Free from Stockholm Syndrome
First of all, it never happened. But as the story goes- yes! It was a big failure on god's part. Right up there with setting up two people in the garden of Eden (which was perfect except for the roaming serpent that was permitted thus making it imperfect
), and then framing them for what he surely knew, as a deity, would follow. Then he proceeds to blame them for doing wrong. Wrong? What does that even mean to people who only know right? How could they even comprehend "wrong" when the concept had never been heard of? So, that garden of Eden thing was a big one, too.But the flood? Huge mistake. Again, God makes man pay for his own failures by drowning them all - men, women and children/babies, because he's a genocidal maniac. Wow. Then he goes ahead and replenishes the Earth with the same evil, incestuous, murderous, paedophilic brand of freaks that were on the Earth in the first place. That ticks him off later, so he rapes a virgin girl and she bares a man/god to take care of things by being brutally murdered by some Roman men...and... wait! I sense some major passive-aggression amongst the mythology.
I believe someone wrote a lot of bollox.
Mary Blackchurch
Free from Stockholm Syndrome
And one could easily argue, if they believe this nonsense, that he certainly does! But that doesn't make it right. You can do whatever you want with your children, too. But don't you think not watching them suffer would be better? God is a joke. I'd make a better deity.
I only post the following in light of the contention that god is infallible and can do no wrong.
Genesis 6:5-7 (NKJV)
5 Then the Lord saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
6 And the Lord was sorry that He had made man on the earth, and He was grieved in His heart. 7 So the Lord said, “I will destroy man whom I have
created from the face of the earth, both man and beast, creeping thing and birds of the air, for I am sorry that I have made them.”
Now if anyone sees the flood as a success please point it out.
.
I only post the following in light of the contention that god is infallible and can do no wrong.
Genesis 6:5-7 (NKJV)
5 Then the Lord saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
6 And the Lord was sorry that He had made man on the earth, and He was grieved in His heart. 7 So the Lord said, “I will destroy man whom I have
created from the face of the earth, both man and beast, creeping thing and birds of the air, for I am sorry that I have made them.”
Now if anyone sees the flood as a success please point it out.
.
According to these verses, sin and corruption was prevailing amongst the God’s creation (human population). My understanding of the bible is that the evil lifestyle will have ramification evidence of diseases and death however the lives of those who were doing well in the eyes of God were to be put in jeopardy due to actions of others. If you read previous verses, you will notice that ‘sons of God’ chose and married whoever they wanted. But now the ‘sons of God’ as translated into our bibles from Hebrew means ‘bene elohim’ which is an angelical term (Job 1:6). If you follow me you will understand that that ‘sons of God’ who are angels had physical unions with human women, do you agree? What came out of these unions were ‘giants’ as related to Genesis 6:4. These giants are the ones that existed on the face of the earth and I believe that God could not allow these corrupt offspring of ‘sons of God’ and ‘human women’ to fill the earth and actions of mankind grieved ‘nahem’ God in His Holy heart which led to the flood.
Further God regretted to have made mankind and together with mankind were creatures that moved along the ground. Noah and his sons and their wives found the grace of God and acted according to His instructions. He testified for 120 years about the flood and evil men refused to acknowledge or seek forgiveness. If you remember well, the Holy Bible describes Noah as righteous, blameless and obedient in that he walked with God. Those who survived with Noah were because of his acknowledgement of the existence of God.
I am a Christian and respect Christianity and to show this, please next time spell God with a capital if you need me to discuss further matters. Further pictures are created by us and according to the understanding of the person who does the picture. Please in future read the Holy Bible with Faith and not to look at grey areas that makes you a Questioning Monster. Faith is the only thing that will assist you in answering many questions that you have and by the way keep the questions for yourself until you have a clearer understanding of the bible.
TheMusicTheory
Lord of Diminished 5ths
This is nonsense. "Please read my holy book and only think about my holy book the way I think about it so you don't accidentally figure out it is all basically nonsense".
Anyway, to the original topic:
This is one of those things that make it so obvious that the god of the Old Testament and the god of the New Testament are two completely different characters. The OT god is a petty, spiteful and vengeful being. The NT god is, while not the exact opposite, of a totally different temper. This makes sense when you realize that the OT god was taken and given a new set of characteristics in order to "fit" into the new narrative of a new created religion. Build on the older stories to create your own.
Remember, too, that the OT freely acknowledges the existence of other gods in the ancient world in several passages (Deut. 10:17, Exodus 12:12 as examples), and that it simply makes the claim that the Jewish god is the superior one.
Christianity abhors the idea of any other deity ever having existed and so disavows it and pretends that passages like that don't mean what they very plainly mean.
The flood story is the penultimate example of the fallibility of the Abrahamic god (the ultimate being the creation story itself, in which this god creates a species, man, that he knows will defy him because he has not taught man not to do that and then gets mad at them for doing the thing he knew they were going to do). It's a kid flooding his ant farm because they do something he doesn't like. If all the stories of the Abrahamic god are to be believed, then he is essentially a child that will throw a tantrum at the drop of a pin. I am reminded of the Twilight Zone episode "It's a Good Life", where a child banished people to "the cornfield" for thinking thoughts he doesn't like.
shmogie
Well-Known Member
What is "right" ? What g
What is "right" ? What gives you the moral authority to determine right from wrong ? Are their absolutes or is right variable ? As an example, it has been proven that unborn baby's, certainly after the first trimester feel pain, in late term abortions, viable babies are murdered. Yet millions feel this killing is "right".Before we judge God we had better take a much deeper look at ourselves.
TheMusicTheory
Lord of Diminished 5ths
This is false. In fact research has shown they cannot until the third trimester:
Does a Fetus Feel Pain at 20 Weeks?
shmogie
Well-Known Member
LOL, you obviously are a few years behind in your research. I will shortly provide citations for you. Branding something "false" without being sure, is calling someone a liar, childish
TheMusicTheory
Lord of Diminished 5ths
Oh I can't WAIT for this. I'm going to predict that your citations will all be from christian or conservative sources that don't have actual studies to back them up.
The current research IS quite clear, it just doesn't say what you want it to say. And I am *very* sure on that, thanks.
TheMusicTheory
Lord of Diminished 5ths
Everything we know is nicely summed up here, with helpful links to studies and abstracts:
Do Fetuses Feel Pain? What the Science Says
Do Fetuses Feel Pain? What the Science Says