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God-Inspired Scripture

Redemptionsong

Well-Known Member
Death will overtake all and it actually is not a punishment in my view.

But you have not answered my question. I asked "Do you know that God who proves his writ through retributions?"

I also asked what it was like to be bowed? Why should God reveal the correct scripture to you and your group only? What you did to deserve this boon from God?

(IMO, a mind settled in divinity can only judge as to what is divine and what is not).

Hi atanu,
I know what I read. This tells me about the retribution to come. In the present age, which is an age of grace, I have come to know a God of love and forgiveness. I do believe, however, that the same God is able to bring judgment to this world at any point he wishes.

The scriptures are there for anyone to read, unless you happen to be unfortunate enough to live under a repressive regime. I'm not special in any way, but I am in search of Truth, and I believe that this truth has been revealed to me in the person of Jesus Christ.

I would like others to seek and find the same Truth.
Let me be quite open with you. I see myself as a sinner saved. I feel a debt to my Lord and Saviour.
 
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Redemptionsong

Well-Known Member
Is there anything of Holy Spirit in these claims?

There is if you believe the words of Jesus, who said, ' Howbeit when he, the spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.'

The Holy Spirit points towards Jesus Christ and confirms the truths of scripture. It does not say that all other faith falls short, but this is the consequence of accepting Christ as the Truth.
 

atanu

Member
Premium Member
Hi atanu,
I know what I read. This tells me about the retribution to come. In the present age, which is an age of grace, I have come to know a God of love and forgiveness. I do believe, however, that the same God is able to bring judgment to this world at any point he wishes.

Why he needs to? It is his creation after all.

The scriptures are there for anyone to read, unless you happen to be unfortunate enough to live under a repressive regime. I'm not special in any way, but I am in search of Truth, and I believe that this truth has been revealed to me in the person of Jesus Christ.

I would like others to seek and find the same Truth.
Let me be quite open with you. I see myself as a sinner saved. I feel a debt to my Lord and Saviour.

The truth has been revealed to me too. I know I am saved.

So? Do you agree that can happen?
 
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Redemptionsong

Well-Known Member
Why he needs to? It is his creation after all.

What do you make of this?
Mark 12:1-9, 'And he began to speak unto them by parables. A certain man planted a vineyard, and set an hedge about it, and digged a place for the winefat, and built a tower, and let it out to husbandmen, and went into a far country. And at the season he sent to the husbandmen a servant, that he might receive from the husbandmen of the fruit of the vineyard. And they caught him and beat him, and sent him away empty. And again he sent unto them another servant; and at him they cast stones, and wounded him in the head, and sent him away shamefully handled. And again he sent another; and him they killed, and many others; beating some, and killing some. Having yet therefore one son, his wellbeloved, he sent him also last unto them, saying, They will reverence my son. But those husbandmen said among themselves, This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and the inheritance is our's. And they took him, and killed him, and cast him out of the vineyard. What shall therefore the lord of the vineyard do? he will come and destroy the husbandmen, and will give the vineyard unto others.'
 

Redemptionsong

Well-Known Member
You would like others to agree to you. You would like others to say that what you call Truth is the only Truth. God knows whom to save without your intervention and advertising, which is mostly the work of ego. In my opinion, it is a parochial mind that imagines that God sends saviour in a particular form/body only and without subservience to that idea of that form all are doomed. In fact no one knows the form. It is an imagination. No one knows Jesus in person. It is written as myth. It is same with many parochial Hindus who claim God's preferential love.

In fact, when you proclaim "this truth has been revealed to me in the person of Jesus Christ", have you realised Jesus, the person and his way? How? In what form? And where?

There are lots of truths and partial truths in this world. But the claim made by Jesus Christ is that he is the 'the Way, the Truth, and the Life'. This is not a claim to partial truth, but to a truth that is true for all men. The spirit of Christ is, according to the Bible, the Word of God.

It says in Ephesians 4: 11,' And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:'

The inner knowledge of the Son of God is given through the Holy Spirit. It is therefore essential to repent and receive baptism in the Holy Spirit. If you do not have the Holy Spirit you have, instead, a religion, which is a form of law.
 

atanu

Member
Premium Member
Before your last two posts, I edited post 203 of mine to focus only on the main issue.
 

Redemptionsong

Well-Known Member
efore your last two posts, I edited post 203 of mine to focus only on the main issue.

It's not for me to say whether someone is saved or not. I do, however, feel a responsibility to share knowledge of the one and only Saviour.
 
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metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
In my post #185, I alluded to a different angle that one could take in regards to vis-a-vis Jesus and the Law, although it is a s-t-r-e-t-c-h.

When asked what the purpose of Torah was by a student, Hillel's rather famous remark was "Do not do unto others that which you would not want done unto yourself. All the rest is commentary, now go and study". Let me put it another way, namely that what some sages felt the main purpose of Torah was given by God was to make us, our society, and eventually the world, more compassionate towards others and God, and also for us to be just (fair). Even though Hillel felt that this was the main brunt of Torah, nevertheless he taught that the entire Law, all 613 of them (the list was complied centuries later by Maimonides, although all of them are found in Torah as my link provided) had to be followed.

Around the same time of Jesus, especially in the Galilee and northern coastal area of eretz Israel, were a significant number of Jews who had take a very liberal position in regards to the Law, feeling that "love" was the basis for Torah, therefore as long as one lived out what some would later call "the law of love", they were in essence following the gist of Torah. Contrary to what some believe, the Pharisees were not a monolithic organization, and historians realize that there were at least four main groups and maybe more. At least one theologian that I just so happen to personally know calls one of these groups "love Pharisees", feeling that the entirety of the Law was love of God and love of their fellow man. Jesus would have been undoubtedly familiar with that group because of where he grew up.

That particular view, however, was not at all common, and for very good reason, namely that there are 613 Laws, not just one or two. Yes, it's conceivably possible that God's main purpose was to teach us to be more compassionate and just, but so many of the Laws don't at least directly deal with that. This is why Hillel still taught that the entire Law had to be followed even if there is some flexibility allowed under certain circumstances, such as, let's say, a Catch-22 situation.

Also, let me just add that this very liberal position was undoubtedly influence by Hellenization, thus leaving those more into that with a less parochial attitude, thus being more inclusive. The scope of the teachings of Aristotle, Socrates, and Plato, for examples, tended to be more universal that the Judaism of Jesus' day. This attitude may well account for Jesus' emphasis on being more inclusive when dealing with the role of women and gentiles.

Anyhow, I just thought I'd try to briefly explain what I had alluded to in a previous post.
 

Ingledsva

HEATHEN ALASKAN
Ingledsva, for this to be a productive discussion, there has to be some background understanding regarding the purpose of prophecy. If the Word of God is reduced to naturalistic statements only, what we have is nothing more than a history of Israel with a few laws attached. There would be no indication of purpose or outcome. What the Messianic promises give us is a completion of God's will.

The reason that I want to establish this understanding of the purpose of prophecy is that it allows for layers of meaning. There exists an earthly historical record, but over this is laid another, even grander picture, which is everlasting, and of God.

And if we are going to make reference to the historical setting, its important to get the geography correct. The ten tribes were in the North, and the two in the South.

If you read the whole thing then you saw where I said there are a couple of verses in Isaiah, which the JEWISH people consider to be about their Messiah.

However, they are ones that are generic and can not be attributed to Jesus.

The birth story in Isaiah is not about any Messiah, - Jewish, - or Christian.

EDIT - Forgot to say you are correct. The ten tribes were in the north with Resin. I have no idea how I managed to transpose them. LOL!

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Ingledsva

HEATHEN ALASKAN
Jesus was seen in a body following his resurrection. To Mary Magdalene he said, 'Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.'
At the point of ascension it says, 'And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.' A little later it says, '..this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.'
This tells me that Jesus is seen on earth but we lose sight as he ascends into heaven. Likewise, when he returns, he will appear from the clouds 'in like manner'. What is clear from 1 Corinthians 15 is that corruption is turned to incorruption and mortality to immortality.

However, all we have are later stories saying the "magical" events happened.

The Jewish Messiah doesn't need any of these "magical" events to exist. He is a human from the line of David. Not God, and no trinity.

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Ingledsva

HEATHEN ALASKAN
Thanks for pointing to this site as a source of information.
These are the passages listed as legitimate messianic prophecies.
  • Isaiah 2:11; 42; 59:20
  • Jeremiah 23:30,33; 48:47; 49:39
  • Ezekiel 38:16
  • Hosea 3:4-3: 5
  • Micah 4
  • Zephaniah 3:9
  • Zechariah 14:9
  • Daniel 10:14
This is how the passages in Isaiah read, using the Jewish Study Bible.

Isaiah 2: 11,12 'Man's haughty look shall be brought low, And the pride of mortals shall be humbled. None but the Lord shall be exalted in that day. For the LORD of Hosts has ready a day Against all that is proud and arrogant, Against all that is lofty - so that it is brought low:.. None but the LORD shall be Exalted in that day (verse 17).

If we were looking at the whole context it would suggest a form of judgment. It says, 'the Lord shall be exalted in that day'. But this alone is interesting. Where is the human Messiah in all this? Do you imagine him to be a human king leading Israel to war? It says, 'the pride of mortals shall be humbled'. If God is to be exalted why do you create a human king to lead armies into battle? Is the warfare of God not the warfare of Truth?

The point I want to make is that this passage is not an island. By reading this passage, which is said to apply to the Messiah, I am automatically led to passages that pick up the same wording and theme. For example, Isaiah 2:9,11 and 17 all point to Isaiah 5:15,16 (11-17 is the context) which says, 'Yea, man is bowed, And mortal brought low; brought low is the pride of the haughty. And the Lord of Hosts is exalted by judgment, the Holy God proved holy by retribution.'

So from Isaiah 2 we have to build in Isaiah 5, and so the picture grows. The day of the Lord is going to be a judgment day, when God is proved holy by retribution.

This same theme is picked up in the passage from Isaiah 61 verse 2, where it talks about 'And a day of vindication by our God;' All these passages are talking about the same event - a future judgment.

Now, you ask, what has this to do with Jesus? Well, if you return to Luke 4:19 you will see that he was quoting from Isaiah 61 in the synagogue in Nazareth. He finishes his reading with the words 'To preach the acceptable year of the Lord', which is translated as 'To proclaim a year of the Lord's favor' in the JSB. He then stops reading. He never says, 'And a day of vindication by our God'. Instead, he says, 'This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears.' In other words, he is not coming as the judge this time. He is coming to offer salvation. The vengeance, or vindication of God, still lies at a future time. When Jesus came, he came as a servant to save, not as the Lord of Hosts to judge.

Isaiah 42, 'This is My servant, whom I uphold, My chosen one, in whom I delight. I have put My spirit upon him, He shall teach the true way to the nations. He shall not cry out or shout aloud, Or make his voice heard in the streets. He shall not break even a bruised reed, Or snuff out even a dim wick. He shall bring forth the true way. He shall not grow dim or be bruised Till he has established the true way on the earth; And the coastlands shall await his teaching.
Thus said God the Lord, Who created the heavens and stretched them out, Who spread out the earth and what it brings forth, Who gave breath to the people upon it And life to those who walk thereon: I the LORD, in My grace, have summoned you, And I have grasped you by the hand. I created you, and appointed you A covenant people, a light of nations - Opening eyes deprived of light, Rescuing prisoners from confinement, From the dungeon those who sit in darkness. I am the LORD, that is My name; I will not yield My glory to another, Nor My renown to idols. See, the things once predicted have come, And now I foretell new things, Announce to you ere they sprout up. Sing to the LORD a new song, His praise from the ends of the earth - You who sail the sea and you creatures in it, You coastlands and their inhabitants! Let the desert and its towns cry aloud, The villages where Kedar dwells; Let Sela's inhabitants shout, Call out from the peaks of the mountains. Let them do honor to the LORD, and tell His glory in the coastlands.
The LORD goes forth like a warrior, Like a fighter He whips up His rage. He yells, He roars aloud, He charges upon His enemies. "I have kept silent for too long, Kept still and restrained Myself; Now I will scream like a woman in labor, I will pant and I will gasp. Hills and heights will I scorch, Cause all their green to wither; I will turn rivers into isles, And dry the marshes up. I will lead the blind By a road they did not know, And I will make them walk By paths they never knew. I will turn darkness before them to light, Rough places into level ground. These are the promises - I will keep them without fail. Driven back and utterly shamed Shall be those who trust in an image, those who say to idols, 'You are our gods!'"
Listen, you who are deaf; You blind ones, look up and see! Who is so blind as My servant, So deaf as the messenger I send? Who is so blind as the chosen one, So blind as the servant of the Lord? Seeing many things, he gives no heed; With ears open, he hears nothing. The LORD desires His [servant's] vindication, That he may magnify and glorify [His] Teaching. Yet it is a people plundered and despoiled: All of them are trapped in holes, Imprisoned in dungeons. They are given over to plunder, with none to rescue them; To despoilment, with none to say " Give back!" If only you would listen to this, Attend and give heed from now on! Who was it that gave Jacob over to despoilment And Israel to plunderers? Surely, the LORD against whom they sinned In whose ways they would not walk And whose Teaching they would not obey. So He poured out wrath upon them, His anger and the fury of war. It blazed upon them all about, but they heeded not; It burned among them, but they gave it no thought.

Is this a passage about Israel, the people? Or is it a passage about the Messiah? Or is it showing up both, as prophecy intends?
The passage begins very positively, with 'He shall teach the true way to the nations'. Is this about Israel (the Jews), or is it about Israel (the Church), or is it about Israel (the Messiah)? Is this still future? Have Israel (the Jews) failed to lead the nations? Or is it that the Messiah (as servant) will go about bringing peace, as in not breaking a 'bruised reed' or snuffing out a 'dim wick'? Nor will the servant be 'bruised' (see Genesis 3:15) 'till he has established the true way on the earth'.
For the 'spirit to be upon him', either Israel has the spirit upon them, or the Church (new Israel) has the spirit upon them, or the spirit is on the individual Messiah. Or a combination.

It would certainly not be hard to make a good case for this being a reference to Christ and the Church, the spirit-filled body of believers.

Then we have the coastlands. To whom does this refer? It's not the nation of Israel, but the nations or isles abroad. How come this follows the foretelling of 'new things'? How come the coastlands tell of 'His glory'? This isn't a prophecy of some future messianic age. I'm calling out from the peak of a mountain right now!

Then you have a passage that states that the blind will have their minds enlightened. As it says, 'I will turn darkness before them to light, Rough places into level ground.' Isn't this what the New Testament does?

Then you have those who hear and see nothing and then face judgment. 'If only you would listen to this, Attend and heed from now on!' Many in Jacob and Israel sin against the Lord because they refuse to walk in his ways.

None of the Jewish Messiah texts can be linked to prophecies of Jesus. They are generic Messiah. Also, Jesus did not fulfill the prophecies.

Watch the video which takes apart all of the verses that Christians consider to be about Jesus.

EDIT - Forgot to add - YOU said this -
Isaiah 2: 11,12 'Man's haughty look shall be brought low, And the pride of mortals shall be humbled. None but the Lord shall be exalted in that day. For the LORD of Hosts has ready a day Against all that is proud and arrogant, Against all that is lofty - so that it is brought low:.. None but the LORD shall be Exalted in that day (verse 17).

If we were looking at the whole context it would suggest a form of judgment. It says, 'the Lord shall be exalted in that day'. But this alone is interesting. Where is the human Messiah in all this? Do you imagine him to be a human king leading Israel to war? It says, 'the pride of mortals shall be humbled'. If God is to be exalted why do you create a human king to lead armies into battle? Is the warfare of God not the warfare of Truth?

This is a good example of the problems with Bibles. Everywhere it has LORD - it is actually GOD - YHVH.

Isaiah 2: 11,12 'Man's haughty look shall be brought low, And the pride of mortals shall be humbled. None but YHVH shall be exalted in that day. For YHVH of Hosts has ready a day Against all that is proud and arrogant, Against all that is lofty - so that it is brought low:.. None but YHVH shall be Exalted in that day (verse 17).

Isn't that interesting - None but YHVH shall be Exalted in that day - Not Jesus.

Where this verse talks about End Times and Messiah - is "has ready a day," - "In that day."

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Ingledsva

HEATHEN ALASKAN
61:2 To proclaim the acceptable year of the LORD, and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn; 61:3To appoint unto themthat mourn in Zion, to give unto them beauty for ashes, the oil of joy for mourning, the garment of praise for the spirit of heaviness; that they might be called trees of righteousness, the planting of the LORD, that he might be glorified.

This passage is worth further comment.
If, as you say, this is Isaiah talking about himself as the 'anointed' one, you find yourself beset with a few problems. Whilst Isaiah may be able to foretell events, and provide warnings, he is not instructed to 'give unto them the beauty for ashes, the oil of joy for mourning, the garment of praise for the spirit of heaviness, that they might be called the trees of righteousness'. Why not? Because he does not have the power to give the Holy Spirit, and the Holy Spirit is the only spirit that can bring about these changes.

You didn't note that Isaiah 61:2-3 is not in the JEWISH Messiah list. They know this IS NOT a Messiah prophecy.

Isaiah is wafting poetic.

Isa 61:1 The Spirit of Adonai YHVH is on me (Isaiah,) because YHVH has anointed me to preach/bring good news to the meek. He has sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to captives, and recovery of sight to the blind, and complete opening to the bound ones;

Isa 61:2 to proclaim the acceptable year of YHVH (The Jubilee), and the day of vengeance of our Elohiym (The day of YHVH); to comfort all who mourn;

Isa 61:3 to appoint to those who mourn in Zion, to give them beauty instead of ashes, the oil of joy instead of mourning, the mantle of praise instead of the spirit of infirmity, so that one calls them trees of righteousness, the planting of YHVH, in order to beautify Himself.

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Ingledsva

HEATHEN ALASKAN
...So if we begin to think that there is more in this Genesis account than meets the eye, we might approach it with a bit more respect.
What about the sun, moon and stars appearing on day four? Well, if each day is seen as a thousand years, there is something significant about the appearance of these heavenly bodies at this stage in the unveiling of God's will and purpose. Doesn't Abraham receive the promise that his descendents, or seed, will 'be as the stars'? Is it not the coming Messiah who is given the description 'Sun of Righteousness' (Malachi 4:2)?

These verses demand our attention. Let's not forget that when Jesus told the parable of the Sower he described the pathway as the man whose heart is hardened and unreceptive. Are we to be like that?

It is not a thousand years. We can tell this by the wording. Their DAY is not counted like ours, - it is from evening and the next morning = one day.

Gen 1:5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

Gen 1:8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.

Gen 2:2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.

Gen 2:3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it (Qadash-Consecrated to keep Holy): because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

Obviously he didn't sanctify a thousand years. It means the seventh DAY is to be kept Holy.

The reason we have - SUN - is because they were originally SUN Gods.

Mal 4:2 But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun (shemesh) of righteousness arise with healing in his wings/rays; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall.

Look up the Sumerian sun god Shamash.

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"The Hebrew must have been well acquainted with the idolatrous worship of the sun during their captivity in Egypt, both from contiguity of On, the chief seat of the worship of the sun as implied in the name itself (On= the Hebrew Beth-shemesh, 'house of the sun,' Jer 43:13), and also from the connection between Joseph and Poti-pherah (He who belongs to Re') the priest of On." - Unger's Bible Dictionary

Jer 8:1-2 "At that time, says the LORD, the bones of the kings of Judah, the bones of its princes, the bones of the priests, the bones of the prophets, and the bones of the inhabitants of Jerusalem shall be brought out of their tombs; And they shall spread them before the sun, and the moon, and all the host of heaven, whom they have loved, and whom they have served, and after whom they have walked, and whom they have sought, and whom they have worshipped: they shall not be gathered, nor be buried; they shall be for dung upon the face of the earth."

Psalms 84:11 For a Sun and Shield is YHVH Elohiym; beauty and splendor gives he YHVH, and does not withhold prosperity from those who walk in integrity.

THE PRACTICAL BIBLE DICTIONARY, SUN; The greater light, Gen. 1:15-18. WORSHIPPED by idolatrous HEBREWS, 2 Kgs 21:3,5; 23:5.

Psalm 68: 32, 33, 34 –
Sing unto God, ye kingdoms of the earth;
O sing praises unto the Lord; Selah:
To HIM that “RIDETH UPON THE HEAVENS,” which were of old;
lo, he doth send out “His Crackling Thunder Voice;”
and that a “mighty thunder. “
Ascribe ye strength unto God:
His excellency is “OVER” Israel,
and His Strength is in the Clouds.

tr532cfb54.jpg


Psa 68:2 As smoke is driven away, so drive them away: as wax melteth before the fire, so let the wicked perish at the presence of God.

Psa 68:4 Sing unto God, sing praises to his name: extol him that rideth upon the heavens by his name JAH, and rejoice before him.

2Ki 23:5 And he put down the idolatrous priests, whom the kings of Judah had ordained to burn incense in the high places in the cities of Judah, and in the places round about Jerusalem; them also that burned incense unto Baal, to the sun, and to the moon, and to the planets, and to all the host of heaven.

2Ki 23:11 And he took away the horses that the kings of Judah had given to the sun, at the entering in of the house of the LORD, by the chamber of Nathanmelech the chamberlain, which was in the suburbs, and burned the chariots of the sun with fire.

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Redemptionsong

Well-Known Member
Obviously he didn't sanctify a thousand years. It means the seventh DAY is to be kept Holy.

When talking about prophecy earlier (post161), I mentioined that it would be wrong to think of everything in purely earthly terms. I am not denying the importance of a day as a period from evening to evening, but underlying the earthly meaning is a heavenly meaning, as Jesus showed in the parables he told.

And as you rightly point out, if would be easy to confuse the use of a phrase like 'sun of righteousness' with idolatry, if one was not aware of the prophetic use of the luminaries to point to what is true rather than what is false.
 

Redemptionsong

Well-Known Member
Isn't that interesting - None but YHVH shall be Exalted in that day - Not Jesus.

But Christians believe that the risen Christ IS the Lord of Hosts.

'Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and honour, and glory, and blessing. And every creature which is in heaven, and on earth, and under the sea, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever. And the four beasts said, Amen. And the four and twenty elders fell down and worshipped him that liveth for ever and ever.'(Revelation 5:12-14)

Who is being EXALTED in that day?
 

Ingledsva

HEATHEN ALASKAN
When talking about prophecy earlier (post161), I mentioined that it would be wrong to think of everything in purely earthly terms. I am not denying the importance of a day as a period from evening to evening, but underlying the earthly meaning is a heavenly meaning, as Jesus showed in the parables he told.

And as you rightly point out, if would be easy to confuse the use of a phrase like 'sun of righteousness' with idolatry, if one was not aware of the prophetic use of the luminaries to point to what is true rather than what is false.

You are doing exactly what that video claimed Christians do. Circular reasoning to try to fit Jesus into Tanakh.

It uses the words for a real day. Anything else is just added speculation.

As to that SUN of righteousness, - it comes from Tanakh. Where we have many verses telling us straight out that they worshipped the Sun. So Sun of Righteousness is probably a carryover from those times.

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Ingledsva

HEATHEN ALASKAN

Ingledsva said:
Isn't that interesting - None but YHVH shall be Exalted in that day - Not Jesus.

But Christians believe that the risen Christ IS the Lord of Hosts.

'Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and honour, and glory, and blessing. And every creature which is in heaven, and on earth, and under the sea, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever. And the four beasts said, Amen. And the four and twenty elders fell down and worshipped him that liveth for ever and ever.'(Revelation 5:12-14)

Who is being EXALTED in that day?

The Messiah comes from the Hebrew.

The Hebrew God - YHVH - is ONE.

The Hebrew Messiah was to be a HUMAN born from the line of David. Jesus wasn't. He would have to have had a father from the line of David.

Jesus claims to be that HEBREW Messiah.

Jesus never claims to be God.

Jesus never claims to be part of any trinity.

According to the original text - YHVH is being exalted, - not any Messiah, - Jewish or Christian.

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atanu

Member
Premium Member
The Saviour knows what to do - and he has let us know his will! It's been written down and clearly stated, 'Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.'

That is the problem. That was probably told to the direct disciples who were perfected.

First be ye perfect
. Till then:

Hypocrite! First get rid of the log in your own eye; then you will see well enough to deal with the speck in your friend's eye.
...........

When was the imposition of one's will and ignorance on others a holy command?
 
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