Why exactly do Jehovah's Witnesses evangelize?

Deeje · Apr 3, 2016

djhwoodwerks said:
What about, "we thought"?

*** w13 7/15 p. 3 par. 3 “Tell Us, When Will These Things Be?” ***
3 For a number of years, we thought that the great tribulation began in 1914 with World War I and that “those days were cut short” by Jehovah in 1918 when the war ended so that the remnant would have the opportunity to preach the good news to all nations.

*** w13 7/15 p. 6 par. 10 “Tell Us, When Will These Things Be?” ***
Previously, we thought that the judging of people as sheep or goats would take place during the entire period of the last days from 1914 onward. We concluded that those who rejected the Kingdom message and who died before the start of the great tribulation would die as goats—without the hope of a resurrection.

*** w13 7/15 p. 11 “Look! I Am With You All the Days” ***
Paragraph 6: This is an adjustment in understanding. Previously, we thought that Jesus’ inspection took place in 1918.

*** w13 7/15 p. 13 “Look! I Am With You All the Days” ***
Paragraph 16: Daniel 12:3 states that “the ones having insight [anointed Christians] will shine like the brightness of the expanse.” While still on earth, they do this by sharing in the preaching work. However, Matthew 13:43 points to the time when they will shine brightly in the heavenly Kingdom. Previously, we thought that both scriptures referred to the same activity—the preaching work.

*** w13 7/15 p. 8 par. 19 “Tell Us, When Will These Things Be?” ***
19 In review, what have we learned? In the beginning of this article, we raised three “when” questions. We first considered that the great tribulation did not begin in 1914 but will start when the United Nations attacks Babylon the Great. Then, we reviewed why Jesus’ judgment of the sheep and the goats did not begin in 1914 but will occur during the great tribulation. Finally, we examined why Jesus’ arrival to appoint the faithful slave over all his belongings did not occur in 1919 but will take place during the great tribulation. So, then, all three “whens” apply to the same future time period—the great tribulation. How does this adjusted view further affect our understanding of the illustration of the faithful slave? Also, how does it affect our understanding of other parables, or illustrations, of Jesus that are being fulfilled during this time of the end? These important questions will be considered in the following articles.

The GB got those "truths" wrong, because they "thought"!

Ah, but the light on the path got brighter and adjustments were made. (Prov 4:18) The light continues to shine and we continue to preach.

No one is forcing you to listen to our GB, djh....this vendetta is all yours. If you have a beef with the GB...that is your problem not ours.
I am amused at what you think they get out of deliberately misleading us....do you think they do it on purpose? Have we ever claimed that they are infallible?

They are just servants feeding other servants. Is there some Biblical injunction against this, or are they just doing what Jesus told them to do.....its isn't just food, but "food at the proper time", so we get what we need, when we need it. We have no problems with any of it.....though you seem to have an obsession with our GB for some reason.

Deeje · Apr 3, 2016

djhwoodwerks said:
I sincerely apologize to you Deeje and anyone else that got the impression I was yelling. I am in no way yelling, angry, hostile, or any other word that might be used. I was only wanting to stress the point of "one Lord". I do apologize, and I am sorry if I came off that way!

Well, thank you.....Big bold letters is internet yelling. We live and learn.

Your "stressing the point" didn't work, btw. There is NOT only "one Lord" mentioned in the Bible. It is a title that is attached to many others in scripture as the citations reveal.

djhwoodwerks · Apr 3, 2016

Deeje said:
Ah, but the light on the path got brighter and adjustments were made. (Prov 4:18) The light continues to shine and we continue to preach.

So it's ok for the GB to "think", but no one else should ever say what they think?

djhwoodwerks · Apr 3, 2016

Deeje said:
Well, thank you.....Big bold letters is internet yelling. We live and learn.

Your "stressing the point" didn't work, btw. There is NOT only "one Lord" mentioned in the Bible. It is a title that is attached to many others in scripture as the citations reveal.

I will refrain from using big bold letters from now on!

Hockeycowboy · Apr 3, 2016

blue taylor said:
Very good points. "Bible study with Jehovah's Witnesses". I have studied the Bible and I do not need anyone else to interpret it for me. That's exactly what I told some JW evangelist when they came to my door on Christmas day. If you need someone to explain to you what a sentence means, you need Watchtower. No insult intended. If you think you or Watchtower has any kind of "secret knowledge" about the Bible that others do not, you are mistaken. Jesus says to treat others as you would treat yourself. To avoid interacting with others because of their beliefs is not the Jesus way. JW's should treat all people regardless of their beliefs the same as they do those who belong to their church. This is the Jesus way. JW's do not follow it. The parable of the Good Samaritan should tell you this.

It is great that you have taken the time to read the Bible! It really is! Keep it up.

Would you like to know, what is going to happen to this planet Earth? I ask, because 2 Peter 3:7 says the earth is "reserved for fire", but Ecclesiastes 1:4 states, "the earth abides forever."

I'd be glad to share the answer with you! It's a little detailed, but I wouldn't mind doing so. And solely using the Bible, and reasoning; nothing else.

Goodnight!

Deeje · Apr 3, 2016

djhwoodwerks said:
So it's ok for the GB to "think", but no one else should ever say what they think?

Heb 13:7, 17:
"Remember your leaders who have spoken God’s word to you. As you carefully observe the outcome of their lives, imitate their faith..... Obey your leaders and submit to them, for they keep watch over your souls as those who will give an account, so that they can do this with joy and not with grief, for that would be unprofitable for you." (Holman)

We are told to obey and submit to those taking the lead among us. That rules out taking the lead on our own......

Who are these ones whose "leadership we are to submit to djh? Who do you submit to and obey?

savagewind · Apr 3, 2016

Deeje said:
Heb 13:7, 17:
"Remember your leaders who have spoken God’s word to you. As you carefully observe the outcome of their lives, imitate their faith..... Obey your leaders and submit to them, for they keep watch over your souls as those who will give an account, so that they can do this with joy and not with grief, for that would be unprofitable for you." (Holman)

We are told to obey and submit to those taking the lead among us. That rules out taking the lead on our own......

Who are these ones whose "leadership we are to submit to djh? Who do you submit to and obey?

I have definitely proved it does not say "OBEY" but you choose to ignore what educated people have said the Greek word means. It is because you do not want to. God is aware of your not wanting to.
Exodus 32:9 Exodus 33:3 2 Kings 17:14 Isaiah 48:4
Jeremiah 6:10 Matthew 23:31
2 Peter 3:3

savagewind · Apr 3, 2016

@Deeje I am not stiffnecked. Ask anyone here (but Jehovah's Witnesses). I am able to change my mind. Why have you not tried? Why have you ignored EVERY discrepancy that I have brought to the table?

Speaking of tables. According to you every child of God must eat the same food at the same time. How does that make sense to you? Care to share?

savagewind · Apr 3, 2016

@Deeje I realize that JWs use Jesus as their model and when he was asked, "what is truth?" he remained silent. But I think answering simple questions is not the same as what Jesus would have had to do to answer Pilate which is to write an encyclopedia to answer him truthfully.

My question is what is your proof that Hebrews 13:17 says "obey" and what is your cross reference which proves it still? The only one that your own Bible shows is 1 Thessalonians 5:12 and that I believe is the truth. We should respect other people and offer them the benefit of the doubt whenever we are able. That is the law of the Christ imho. Matthew 7:12
I have hundreds of proofs it doesn't say obey. What is your one proof that it does?

http://biblehub.com/greek/5219.htm

The word means, "be under to listen". YOU have made it to mean obey.
But it is the same things we are to do to even the secular authorities. Romans 13:1
"Humble yourselves under the mighty hand of God" is the rule. NOT other people.

Esther 3:5
Ecclesiastes 10:6

savagewind · Apr 3, 2016

@Deeje I shall show you your only proof Hebrew 13:17 says "obey". The men who say that you must obey them say it says obey.

But..... what if we DON'T obey them and they prove right that to be saved we MUST obey them? Well, I default to what Jesus says because what he says is most important. Don't you agree?
Matthew 16:25
Can't you see that you obey them so that God might save your soul?

djhwoodwerks · Apr 3, 2016

URAVIP2ME said:
Didn't Jesus say to pray: Our Father who art in heaven, hallowed (holy) be thy name? ________
I see at Jesus' prayer at John 17:6 and John 17:26 that Jesus did declare his Father's name.

Why is it, people try to teach that Jesus went around saying, "God's name is Jehovah", "My Fathers name is Jehovah"?

Jn 17:6 (ESVST) 6 "I have manifested your name to the people whom you gave me out of the world. Yours they were, and you gave them to me, and they have kept your word.

Jn 17:11 (ESVST) . Holy Father, keep them in your name, which you have given me, that they may be one, even as we are one.

Jn 17:12 (ESVST) 12 While I was with them, I kept them in your name, which you have given me.

Jn 12:28 (ESVST) 28 Father, glorify your name." Then a voice came from heaven:"I have glorified it, and I will glorify it again."

Any one of these places Jesus was talking about God's name would have been the perfect place for Him to utter the word "Jehovah", why didn't He? Why did Jesus never say, "LORD", "YHWH", "Jehovah"? Throughout Jesus' ministry, how did He make the Father known? By Who God was!

How many people out there call their father by his personal name? Why not? Out of respect? Do you parents let your children call you by your personal name? Should we respect our heavenly Father any less?

Jesus said, "pray THIS way", "Our Father", If we were to use God's personal name, and Jesus was making His personal name known, why didn't He say, "pray THIS way", "hey Jehovah"?

*** it-2 p. 464 Name *** (WT's Insight book, volume 2, page 464)
A word or phrase that constitutes a distinctive designation of a person, place, animal, plant, or other object. “Name” can mean a person’s reputation or the person himself.

Jesus was making God's reputation known, not His personal name.

djhwoodwerks · Apr 3, 2016

savagewind said:
@Deeje I am not stiffnecked. Ask anyone here (but Jehovah's Witnesses). I am able to change my mind. Why have you not tried? Why have you ignored EVERY discrepancy that I have brought to the table?

Speaking of tables. According to you every child of God must eat the same food at the same time. How does that make sense to you? Care to share?

Nice one s-wind! This is so true. Whether they've been a JW for 40 years or 1 week, they all learn the same thing. That makes no sense to me!

blue taylor · Apr 3, 2016

Hockeycowboy said:
It is great that you have taken the time to read the Bible! It really is! Keep it up.

Would you like to know, what is going to happen to this planet Earth? I ask, because 2 Peter 3:7 says the earth is "reserved for fire", but Ecclesiastes 1:4 states, "the earth abides forever."

I'd be glad to share the answer with you! It's a little detailed, but I wouldn't mind doing so. And solely using the Bible, and reasoning; nothing else.

Goodnight!

Tell me about it using only the words of Jesus. Straight from the horses mouth.

blue taylor · Apr 3, 2016

Deeje said:
Yes...they are the only ones who teach you what it says instead of Christendom's Bible studies where everyone gets to make a guess about what a scripture might mean. Been there, done that.

I am reminded of the Ethiopian eunuch who was traveling along the road reading aloud the words of Isaiah's prophesy. Philip was directed to the man and asked him if he knew what he was reading....his response is important...

Acts 8:31
"he said, “How can I, unless someone guides me?” And he invited Philip to come up and sit with him." (Acts 8:26-31)

Anyone who requires no one to teach them the meaning of the scriptures is open to the false interpretations of their own understanding....something we are told NOT to do. (Prov. 3:5) Jesus said that we would "know the truth" and that it would "set us free". How can anyone appreciate freedom when they have no idea that they are in chains? Christendom is nothing but a bad counterfeit of the original. Like Judaism before her, she "teaches the commands of men as doctrine." (Matt 15:7-9) Have you ever examined the teachings of the churches or do you just accept them as they are taught and have been for centuries? When you study the Bible it is best to put aside pre-conceived ideas and let the whole of scripture speak for itself. It is a completely different message to the one provided by Christendom's churches. All Christians are NOT going to heaven.

You and thousands of others have studied the Bible and come to all kinds of different conclusions about what it means....can you all be right? If you were directed by God's spirit, you would all agree, but it is very obvious to all that you don't. How do you think Christendom got to be so divided? (1 Cor 1:10)

"I think it means" should never preface a passage of scripture. People who teach themselves, have a fool for a teacher. You will never learn the truth that way. That is not the way Jesus taught. He instructed the 12, and they were to carry on teaching others after his departure.The students then became teachers of others. No one was free to interpret scripture for themselves.

There is no "secret knowledge" at all. Just "knowledge" that God said he would provide in this "time of the end" when a cleansing and refining of God's worshippers was foretold. (Dan 12:4, 9, 10) "Insight" was to be granted...but not to the wicked.

If we need no one to help us to understand the Bible and its message, then why are we commanded to preach about it to others? Why not simply hand them a Bible and tell them to figure it out for themselves? We are told to go out to the people of all nations and make disciples...teaching them all that Jesus commanded. (Matt 28:19, 20)

How did Jesus direct the preaching and teaching work after his death? It was through the ones he personally instructed.....they in turn taught others and so on until a congregation of believers, who all accepted the same teachings, was formed. More and more congregations began to spring up as the knowledge spread from one person to another adding to God's spiritual family of Christ's followers. There was no room for "I think".

What makes you think we treat people outside our own religion badly? When was the last time a JW told you you were not fit company or refused to have anything to do with you? We are instructed to "do good towards all but especially those of our own faith." (Gal 6:9, 10) We take the most precious thing in the world out to our own neighbors....."the good news of God's kingdom" (Matt 24:14) We do it in our own time and at our own expense and we will continue in this life saving work until God says it is finished.

Jesus was sent exclusively to "the lost sheep of the house of Israel" who were Jewish people that had given up trying to live up to the Pharisaical interpretation of the law.....the religious leaders looked down upon such ones. These ones were "lost" because the shepherds were not doing their job. We too go out to find the "lost sheep". Like Jesus, we preach to all, but those entrenched in Christendom have no need to hear a thing we say...but that is OK. There are many out there who are fed up with an inadequate church system that is not really much good at keeping Christ's commands. They don't preach, as Jesus instructed all of his disciples to do. In fact it was to be conducted as a search and rescue mission. (Matt 10:11-14)

No church has ever sent people to my door to offer me good news about the kingdom. The only ones who come with this message in all nations is Jehovah's Witnesses. This is how I heard the message.

I offer two quotes. One from Watchtower and the other from Jesus.

"Thus "disfellowshiping" is what Jehovah's Witnesses appropriately call the expelling and subsequent shunning of such an unrepentant wrongdoer." Watchtower 1981 Sep 15 p.22

"But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46 If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? 47 And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? 48 Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

Gaining converts to Jesus seems a noble cause. Gaining converts to a church that shuns their own is against the teachings of Jesus.

Hockeycowboy · Apr 3, 2016

blue taylor said:
Tell me about it using only the words of Jesus. Straight from the horses mouth.

Well, like I said, it's a little detailed. I'd have to use the "OT" and "NT". Jesus quoted quite often from the Hebrew Scriptures, i.e., the OT. If the OT was good enough for Him, we shouldn't have a problem with it either, right?

Although, Jesus did touch on the future of the Earth briefly, at Matthew 5:5 and Matthew 6:9-10. It ties in nicely with Revelation 21:3-4. (Notice, the "tent of God is with mankind.")
But this doesn't explain what Peter meant; I need to use the Bible, other than the Gospels (Jesus' words), to explain it.

But at Matthew 6:10, Jesus did bring up an interesting point, teaching us to pray for God's will to be done "on the Earth."
Many are not told what it is.....but it must be important, Jesus telling us to pray for it, wouldn't you think?

blue taylor · Apr 3, 2016

Hockeycowboy said:
Well, like I said, it's a little detailed. I'd have to use the "OT" and "NT". Jesus quoted quite often from the Hebrew Scriptures, i.e., the OT. If the OT was good enough for Him, we shouldn't have a problem with it either, right?

Although, Jesus did touch on the future of the Earth briefly, at Matthew 5:5 and Matthew 6:9-10. It ties in nicely with Revelation 21:3-4. (Notice, the "tent of God is with mankind.")
But this doesn't explain what Peter meant; I need to use the Bible, other than the Gospels (Jesus' words), to explain it.

But at Matthew 6:10, Jesus did bring up an interesting point, teaching us to pray for God's will to be done "on the Earth."
Many are not told what it is.....but it must be important, Jesus telling us to pray for it, wouldn't you think?

I know. You can not justify Christian beliefs based on the teachings, parables, and commandments of Jesus. Yet if you are a follower of Jesus, this you have to do.

Hockeycowboy · Apr 3, 2016

blue taylor said:
I know. You can not justify Christian beliefs based on the teachings, parables, and commandments of Jesus. Yet if you are a follower of Jesus, this you have to do.

What do you mean? Jesus set the standard for following Him. I try to follow him completely. It justifies my beliefs.

But, unfortunately, individual Christian beliefs vary greatly.....by one estimate, there are 43,000 different sects of Christendom! So, how would a person know which one is right, which one to support? Our Savior, Jesus Himself, gave us a way to determine it; it wouldn't be so much by what they taught, but by how they acted, to what extent they had love for their (spiritual) brother! "All will know," Jesus said. -- John 13:34-35; compare 1 John 3:10-15.

Deeje · Apr 4, 2016

blue taylor said:
I offer two quotes. One from Watchtower and the other from Jesus.

"Thus "disfellowshiping" is what Jehovah's Witnesses appropriately call the expelling and subsequent shunning of such an unrepentant wrongdoer." Watchtower 1981 Sep 15 p.22

bt, do you know anything about Jehovah's Witnesses first hand? Or are you just copying and pasting stuff you've found on JW hate sites?

Do you know what disfellowshipping is, and why its carried out?

Do you believe that the apostle Paul got his instruction straight from Jesus? I do, and he said about unrepentant wrongdoers....

1 Cor 5:9-13 NRSVA:
" I wrote to you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral persons— 10 not at all meaning the immoral of this world, or the greedy and robbers, or idolaters, since you would then need to go out of the world. 11 But now I am writing to you not to associate with anyone who bears the name of brother or sister who is sexually immoral or greedy, or is an idolater, reviler, drunkard, or robber. Do not even eat with such a one. 12 For what have I to do with judging those outside? Is it not those who are inside that you are to judge? 13 God will judge those outside. ‘Drive out the wicked person from among you.’"

What do you make of that jt? It looks like Paul advocated disfellowshipping...often called "excommunication".
Which according to Wiki......
"Excommunication is an institutional act of religious censure used to deprive, suspend, or limit membership in a religious community or to restrict certain rights within it, .....Some Protestants use the term disfellowship instead."

The early Christians did not tolerate those who broke God's laws and who refused counsel from the elders, demonstrating no repentance.

The apostle John also tells us what to do about those who want to introduce their own ideas....

"Be on your guard, so that you do not lose what we have worked for, but may receive a full reward. 9 Everyone who does not abide in the teaching of Christ, but goes beyond it, does not have God; whoever abides in the teaching has both the Father and the Son. 10 Do not receive into the house or welcome anyone who comes to you and does not bring this teaching; 11 for to welcome is to participate in the evil deeds of such a person."

We are not to welcome people like that.

Now look at Christendom and see that she does not discipline her members. When no discipline is administered, the good, the bad and the ugly all rub shoulders in the same pew. This is not the instruction given by the apostles. Judging "inside" the congregation is the job of the shepherds. Failure to do so is a breach of their duty of care for the whole flock, remember Jesus said "a little leaven ferments the whole lump".
They were to remove that bad influence.

"But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46 If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? 47 And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? 48 Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

This is not addressing the actions of apostates...it is speaking about opposers from outside the congregation, not traitors from within.

Being "perfect" as God is perfect mean following the instructions of his son in the teachings he left the apostles.That includes removing rotten apples.

Gaining converts to Jesus seems a noble cause. Gaining converts to a church that shuns their own is against the teachings of Jesus.

I am afraid you have that all wrong. If you are instructed by the scriptures, you will follow their directives whether you like them or not. You think the elders and fellow Christians enjoy disfellowshipping? We are devastated when one of our own is expelled from the congregation. We hope that they will receive the discipline in the spirit that it is given and humble themselves and return to our family. We don't hate them, we want them to come back.

Sometimes it is a real test of our loyalty when a friend or close family member strays from the flock. But we remember Jesus' words....

Matt 10:34-3:
"‘Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth; I have not come to bring peace, but a sword.
35 For I have come to set a man against his father,
and a daughter against her mother,
and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law;
36 and one’s foes will be members of one’s own household.
37 Whoever loves father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; and whoever loves son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me"

Our loyalty to Christ comes before our loyalty to an erring family. We make no apology for that. Discipline works because it is from God.(Heb 12:11) It shows what is in the heart by a person either humbly returning in repentance or pride gets in the way and they end up angry and bitter. They brought the situation on themselves by their own conduct, but sometimes it takes a while for that reality to sink in. (remember the prodigal son?) If there is a repentant heart at any time, they can apply for reinstatement and if approved, having left their wrong course, they are welcomed back with open arms.

You seem to have a very distorted view of things, but if you are getting twisted second hand stories, that is not surprising.

savagewind · Apr 4, 2016

@Deeje Your loyalty is not to Christ. It is to Christ's substitutes. You are the one teaching twisted doctrine.
@Hockeycowboy it's all well and good loving one another but you should be aware that your group teaches that your way is The Only Way to love God, Christ and one's neighbors.

Please prove Hebrews 13:17 says "OBEY". It can be anyone. Most of the Bibles say it so it can be a Catholic who proves it. It must be proved your way or I shall die believing there is not one noble person alive with me. Acts of the apostles 17:11

Imagine Deeje that YOU are the one teaching those putting faith in Jesus that to please God every person, young and old, must choose YOUR twisted doctrine and teach it.
They must quietly rub shoulders with those preying on innocent children that YOU have welcomed into your group to eat at your table. Jesus says that you will be judged according to the way you judge. Do you remember what the Watchtower said about the Catholics who turned a blind eye to the priests who preyed on children?

On the outside (thank God!) looking in, it appears to be that the governing body believe it is a worse sin to disagree with the governing body of Jehovah's Witnesses than it is to have sex with JW minor children.

AND the governing body might one day change a doctrine or two then everyone must get in line with the "new light" but the child, because he or she is a child and there were no witnesses must be considered faking it, until such time as the assault can be proved.

djhwoodwerks · Apr 4, 2016

Deeje said:
The apostle John also tells us what to do about those who want to introduce their own ideas....

"Be on your guard, so that you do not lose what we have worked for, but may receive a full reward. 9 Everyone who does not abide in the teaching of Christ, but goes beyond it, does not have God; whoever abides in the teaching has both the Father and the Son. 10 Do not receive into the house or welcome anyone who comes to you and does not bring this teaching; 11 for to welcome is to participate in the evil deeds of such a person."

We are not to welcome people like that.

We are not to welcome people like what?

Why exactly do Jehovah's Witnesses evangelize?

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