Will the Jewish people ever accept the Messiah?

metis · Feb 11, 2016

mindlight said:
I did but 20 years ago and i found it completely fanciful with some nice poetry.

Well regarding whose claims are considered most likely clearly Christianity is the main show in town.

Maybe next time

In one sense that happens everytime a Christian leader prays or reads his bible on the other that waits for the Second Coming also.

Christian churches have been established in every major people group on the planet no other religion is so well distributed across cultures, geography and races.

Jesus was a legal descendant in the line of the Judean Kings through David and Solomon by his legal father (Joseph-see Matthew 1) and a physical descendant also through his mother Mary ( see Luke 3).

Jesus was a creature of this world and the One through whom it was made. He was circumcised, did the sacrifices, went to Synagogue and grew up in a Jewish faith context.

A great many evil men have been humbled by Christ, fallen staturs of Lenin spring to mind. But the major fulfillment here comes at the Second Coming.

The gospel has been preached to all major people groups and languages but the separation of the wheat from the chaff awaits judgment day.

Ditto

There has been a major return. What is an Israelite. Maybe in the future if things get tough. The existence of a Jewish state presents the possibility for the first time in 2000 years

Jesus rose, death could not hold him - the promise is clear and substantial. We also will be raised but death itself awaits the final judgment.

Again healing miracles and the feeding of the 5000 promise in a substantial way what is yet to come.

Judgment Day

Will not happen until they accept their Messiah , though some Jews already have a taste of that.

Born in humility he came first to offer mercy and not with the sword. True peace has to do with following his example. He will ultimately rid the world of the enemies of God and we will have peace.

The state of Israel is founded on the compassion and guilt of Christians following the holicaust.Truman was an Evangelical.

Needs to be rebuilt but he was also more importantly talking about his body the church whose prayers arise from all nations

The early church and Jewish apostles blazed the trail but this awaits the end of times when the Jews come back to God.

Israel has done a fine job building up the decayed villages of the Ottomans into modern cities. But these may well be ruined and rebuilt yet again.

Second Coming

Requires something to happen in the Muslim world but seems to be there. Not happened yet in the physical sense. But in the association with the church has been steadily building for 2000 years.

Millennial reign

Christians who have the Spirit know what this means. That Gods law is written on our hearts because He dwells in us his church.

Many Christians have seen this answered by Christ others live in faith.

Israel is on its way back from the fallow and empty years of Muslim rule. Oranges grow there now but this is nothing compared to what will be.

And when Jesus comes for his "second coming", make sure you let us all know, OK? Until then, he simply cannot be regarded as "the Messiah" because any prophecies must be fulfilled first.

Also, this from you tells me the kind of bigotry you are a part of: "The early church and Jewish apostles blazed the trail but this awaits the end of times when the Jews come back to God."

Frankly, I really have no patience for that kind of bigotry, so I have one more post of yours that I'm going to respond to, then any conversation between us will be extremely limited. It's unfortunate for you that you ignore Jesus' message to not judge others, which would have to include those who may be involved in other religions. I would suggest that this be left to God because you know not what's inside a person's heart. Judging is judging, whether that be the individual or an entire people. It's stereotyping an entire people and then trying to play "God".

metis · Feb 11, 2016

mindlight said:
It is also used in reference to God.

http://www.hebrew4christians.com/Names_of_G-d/Adonai/adonai.html

Before writing my last post, I didn't see whereas rosends had already responded.

mindlight · Feb 11, 2016

rosends said:
Yes, and the basic form is not used in that verse. Just because "free" means something does NOT make "freedom" and "freely" the same word. Check the Hebrew for the verse and you will see that adoni is used which is a different form, not used for God.

adoni is simply adon with a personal pronoun. The word adon is used in Genesis 45:8 and in Exodus 34:23 to refer to God.

Also it seems that Jews decided they would separate the adonai and adoni root words as a way of countering claims about Jesus at a later date. Link

Dr. James White brings up an interesting counter to this argument. His main point was that the Masoretic “vowel pointing” that proves/shows that the two root “Adon” words are actually different (Adonai vs. Adoni) was something that Judaism developed centuries after Jesus. His comment was basically that by this much later time the Jews would have wanted to counter the deity issue with the usage of their vowel points.

The Masoretic Text is normally quite reliable and is mainly confirmed by the dead sea scrolls. But the use of vowel points is an exception and thus can be dated to the 7th to 9th century AD. Thus the actual Hebrew letter ADNY are used in Isaiah 21 to refer to God directly for instance. Link

If we look at Isaiah 21:16 in the DSS we find the following below directed and speaking about YHWH, see verse 17. Also below the Isaiah passage you will see the Psalm 110:1 passage with vowel points added much later.

For thus has the Lord (ADNY) said to me, Within a year, according to the years of a hireling, and all the glory of Kedar shall fail;

כי-כה אמר אדני אלי בעוד שנה כשני שכיר וכלה כל-כבוד קדר DSS

A Psalm of David. The Lord says to my Lord (ADNY), Sit at my right hand, until I make your enemies your footstool

לְדָוִדִמְזמֹורְנֻאםיְהוָה לַ אֹדִניׁ שֵבלִיִמינִיעַד-ָאׁשִיתֹאְיבֶיךֲָהדֹםְלַרגְֶליךָ MT

mindlight · Feb 11, 2016

metis said:
And when Jesus comes for his "second coming", make sure you let us all know, OK? Until then, he simply cannot be regarded as "the Messiah" because any prophecies must be fulfilled first.

Also, this from you tells me the kind of bigotry you are a part of: "The early church and Jewish apostles blazed the trail but this awaits the end of times when the Jews come back to God."

Frankly, I really have no patience for that kind of bigotry, so I have one more post of yours that I'm going to respond to, then any conversation between us will be extremely limited. It's unfortunate for you that you ignore Jesus' message to not judge others, which would have to include those who may be involved in other religions. I would suggest that this be left to God because you know not what's inside a person's heart. Judging is judging, whether that be the individual or an entire people. It's stereotyping an entire people and then trying to play "God".

Some of these prophecies were fulfilled others await fulfilment. Bigotry is about being closed minded to the truth. Judgment is in the hands of the Lord. My hope and prayer for you and for the people of Israel generally is that mercy will triumph over judgment.

roger1440 · Feb 11, 2016

mindlight said:
Psalm 2 is a Davidic Psalm, the King described has a son. Together it is implied they will rule the world. It echoes the Psalm 110 saying that Jesus quotes in Mark 12:41.

"The Lord said to my Lord : "Sit at my right hand until I put your enemies under your feet."

As Jesus asks those who commented on the meaning of the link of the Messiah with Davidic line-

"David himself calls him Lord, how then can he be his Son."?

The passage is a prophecy on many different levels. The Annointed One is the Son of the Father who is the King over all the Earth. It alludes to the Messiah as Son of God. The link with the Davidic line is fulfilled in Christ but so also the imagery of Sonship implied for the Messiah and also that the Christ will be greater than David and rule the earth. Part of this prophecy has yet to be fulfilled but will be at the Second Coming. But Jesus is demonstrably far greater than David even today.

Your explanations are very vague. What part “of this prophecy” has been fulfilled? How is Jesus “demonstrably far greater than David even today”? The only thing I see greater is the nifty stories about Jesus.

rosends · Feb 11, 2016

mindlight said:
adoni is simply adon with a personal pronoun.

different suffixes make for two different words. Saying something is "simply" ignores how language works.

mindlight said:
The word adon is used in Genesis 45:8 and in Exodus 34:23 to refer to God.

Actually it doesn't. In the former, it refers to being master of Pharao's household, and in the latter, it refers to God as "ha-adon" THE master with the definite article qualifying he root.

mindlight said:
Also it seems that Jews decided they would separate the adonai and adoni root words as a way of countering claims about Jesus at a later date...The Masoretic Text is normally quite reliable and is mainly confirmed by the dead sea scrolls. But the use of vowel points is an exception and thus can be dated to the 7th to 9th century AD. Thus the actual Hebrew letter ADNY are used in Isaiah 21 to refer to God directly for instance.

The quote which states that all vowel points are later, responsive innovations denies that Judaism was able to pronounce the texts and had a tradition of reading with precision well before the written record. But if you want to deny that because it both substantiates your claim and denigrates the entire existence of Jewish practice, go for it.

metis · Feb 11, 2016

mindlight said:
Some of these prophecies were fulfilled others await fulfilment. Bigotry is about being closed minded to the truth. Judgment is in the hands of the Lord. My hope and prayer for you and for the people of Israel generally is that mercy will triumph over judgment.

Another bigoted statement, as if we as a people don't operate on "mercy" but somehow you do.

Aren't you aware of the fact that stereotyping is a form of lying because it posits all within a group as being the same? We teach our children not to stereotype people, but then there are some like you who troll through here and stereotype people. That's disgusting, and maybe it's about time you obeyed what your elementary teachers told you not to do, as Jesus also did.

Flankerl · Feb 11, 2016

I love it when Christians try to explain Hebrew to Jews.

roger1440 · Feb 11, 2016

mindlight said:
Some of these prophecies were fulfilled others await fulfilment. Bigotry is about being closed minded to the truth. Judgment is in the hands of the Lord. My hope and prayer for you and for the people of Israel generally is that mercy will triumph over judgment.

Let me play the devil’s advocate for a second. Let’s say one of them Jews finally wised up. He wants to accept Jesus as his “Lord and savior”. I know the rhetoric very well. How does a Jew go about this? With so many churches out there and so many Gospels and letters written about Jesus how is a Jew to decide? Keep in mind there are non-canonical Gospels out there. I’m going to take a wild guess. It would be your church and the books and letters you believe to be authentic

paarsurrey · Feb 11, 2016

The Jews cannot accept Jesus unless before him Elias descends from heaven.

But so great was the excellence of John, that men might have believed him to be the Christ: and in this he gave a proof of his humility, that he said he was not when he might have been believed to have been the Christ; therefore, This is the testimony of John, when the Jews sent priests and Levites to him from Jerusalemto ask him, Who are you? But they would not have sent unless they had been moved by the excellence of his authority who ventured to baptize. And he confessed, and denied not. What did he confess? And he confessed, I am not the Christ.
And they asked him, What then? Are you Elias? For they knew that Elias was to precede Christ.
http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/1701004.htm

Regards

Tumah · Feb 11, 2016

arcanum said:
I do believe the world needs a savior, a supernatural one. This world is a complete mess, one could easily think there is no G-d, based on all the violence, confusion, and discord in this world. Whether one believes Jesus was the messiah or not, we sure could use another spiritual hero again to set this world right. I've yet to read of another Jew who could fit that pattern.

The world needs a savior --- and the best choice is a moderately famous Jew who died around two thousand years ago?

Name one, one Jewish figure that has had such a universe impact on mankind?

I would say that Jesus' direct impact on the world is negligible. Most Jewish leaders had more of a following than he did.
ON the other hand, Paul, John and Constantine I had a much greater impact on the world than Jesus did. They're not even in the same universe.

Ok you could say he is yet to come, but such a figure is only for the Jews.

Why do you say that? Aren't there a number of Messianic prophecies that relate to others?

Fine, I've read a bit of the Talmud, I know some things. I've read a bit of the Zorah and studied deeply into the kabbalah.

You've read a bit of the what now?

I'm no uneducated Goyim.,

You're no uneducated Goy. Goyim is plural.

I know some things. There has been no other Jew with such wide appeal than Jesus. I'm aware of Sabbatai Zevi, interesting character for sure, but no Jesu.

Alas, appeal does not a Messiah make.

George Manuel Oliveira · Feb 11, 2016

UFO Contact in 2016 (SHOCKING)NASA preparing the World for the big event

~PEACE~

Desert Snake · Feb 11, 2016

arcanum said:
I do believe the world needs a savior, a supernatural one. This world is a complete mess, one could easily think there is no G-d, based on all the violence, confusion, and discord in this world. Whether one believes Jesus was the messiah or not, we sure could use another spiritual hero again to set this world right. I've yet to read of another Jew who could fit that pattern. Name one, one Jewish figure that has had such a universe impact on mankind? Ok you could say he is yet to come, but such a figure is only for the Jews. Fine, I've read a bit of the Talmud, I know some things. I've read a bit of the Zorah and studied deeply into the kabbalah. I'm no uneducated Goyim.,I know some things. There has been no other Jew with such wide appeal than Jesus. I'm aware of Sabbatai Zevi, interesting character for sure, but no Jesu.

Jesu is the pre-eminent Rabbi, that is true. The most eminent Jew.
//Jesus in man form.

Desert Snake · Feb 11, 2016

Flankerl said:
I love it when Christians try to explain Hebrew to Jews.

That's about the same as when anti-Christianity people, whether jews, or whatever, try to explain Christianity to ''Christians'', or whoever.

You know, not all Jews are anti-Jesus, ...

metis · Feb 11, 2016

q konn said:
That's about the same as when anti-Christianity people, whether jews, or whatever, try to explain Christianity to ''Christians'', or whoever.

You know, not all Jews are anti-Jesus, ...

I don't know of any "anti-Christianity "Jews posting here, do you? Generally speaking, we don't judge other religions or stereotype people in other religions.

roger1440 · Feb 11, 2016

arcanum said:
I do believe the world needs a savior, a supernatural one. This world is a complete mess, one could easily think there is no G-d, based on all the violence, confusion, and discord in this world. Whether one believes Jesus was the messiah or not, we sure could use another spiritual hero again to set this world right. I've yet to read of another Jew who could fit that pattern. Name one, one Jewish figure that has had such a universe impact on mankind? Ok you could say he is yet to come, but such a figure is only for the Jews. Fine, I've read a bit of the Talmud, I know some things. I've read a bit of the Zorah and studied deeply into the kabbalah. I'm no uneducated Goyim.,I know some things. There has been no other Jew with such wide appeal than Jesus. I'm aware of Sabbatai Zevi, interesting character for sure, but no Jesu.

But how does one pick the right one? With so many flavors out there, do we pick the one that suits our taste?

mindlight · Feb 11, 2016

metis said:
Another bigoted statement, as if we as a people don't operate on "mercy" but somehow you do.

Aren't you aware of the fact that stereotyping is a form of lying because it posits all within a group as being the same? We teach our children not to stereotype people, but then there are some like you who troll through here and stereotype people. That's disgusting, and maybe it's about time you obeyed what your elementary teachers told you not to do, as Jesus also did.

Its not a stereotype to say that people are only saved by Christ. it is the suggestion of an abyss between the saved and unsaved which only Christ can bridge.

mindlight · Feb 11, 2016

Flankerl said:
I love it when Christians try to explain Hebrew to Jews.

I think the first century Jewish apostles probably had a better grasp of second temple Hebrew and the scriptures than you do. As may well do a great many Messianic Jews living in and outside of Israel. Or Shall I trust 21st century Jewish ubelievers who after 2 millenia of entrenched hostility have developed a vested interest to refute any Christian interpretation of scripture and who have developed hermeneutical traditions to reinforce their denial of the plain meaning of scripture.

mindlight · Feb 11, 2016

paarsurrey said:
The Jews cannot accept Jesus unless before him Elias descends from heaven.

But so great was the excellence of John, that men might have believed him to be the Christ: and in this he gave a proof of his humility, that he said he was not when he might have been believed to have been the Christ; therefore, This is the testimony of John, when the Jews sent priests and Levites to him from Jerusalemto ask him, Who are you? But they would not have sent unless they had been moved by the excellence of his authority who ventured to baptize. And he confessed, and denied not. What did he confess? And he confessed, I am not the Christ.
And they asked him, What then? Are you Elias? For they knew that Elias was to precede Christ.
http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/1701004.htm
Regards

Jesus met Elijah come from Heaven on the Mount of Transfiguration.

I believe Elijah will be one the 2 witnesses that will stand in Jerusalem before Christ returns.

mindlight · Feb 11, 2016

roger1440 said:
Let me play the devil’s advocate for a second. Let’s say one of them Jews finally wised up. He wants to accept Jesus as his “Lord and savior”. I know the rhetoric very well. How does a Jew go about this? With so many churches out there and so many Gospels and letters written about Jesus how is a Jew to decide? Keep in mind there are non-canonical Gospels out there. I’m going to take a wild guess. It would be your church and the books and letters you believe to be authentic

You accept Christ and you end up in the church he wants you in. The unity is in him and he can handle the diversity.

Will the Jewish people ever accept the Messiah?

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