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Where in the Bible is the Holy Ghost (Spirit) identified as god?
- Thread starter Skwim
- Start date
Skwim
Veteran Member
If we're to make sense of what Christians say we have to understand what they're talking about.
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
Jesus never described Holy Ghost as G-d, it is an invention of the Church.
I agree with you.
Regards
Thana
Lady
I suppose most if it has to do with this verse -
1 John 5:7-8 - For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
And then there are constant references to them together -
Matthew 28:19 - Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
2 Corinthians 13:14 - The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Ghost, [be] with you all. Amen.
The analogy I use in thinking about it is the sun (as God) and the rays of the sun (as the Holy Spirit). The rays of the sun connect from the sun and can be thought of as One entity.
kepha31
Active Member
Here's a list:
http://scripturecatholic.com/the_holy_spirit.html
http://scripturecatholic.com/the_holy_spirit.html
Skwim
Veteran Member
Your
http://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/1-John-Chapter-5/
1 John Chapter 5
7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
1 John Chapter 5
7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
does seem to be a good one; however,
is pretty enigmatic. What do the three refer to?
Thana
Lady
The Spirit, the water and the blood = The Holy Spirit, Baptism and Jesus's blood/death/sacrifice (Anyone or all of those)
Skwim
Veteran Member
Thanks.
Mountain_Climber
Active Member
The Father speaks as a witness; the Word or the Son speaks as a witness; and the spirit of unity between them also provides it's own sort of a witness.
"Of the holy spirit" is a reference to the unity brought about by oneness of spirit. We are to be of one spirit, having one spirit among us and following that one unifying spirit. We are to baptize in the name of the Father and of the Son and of that unity brought about by the adoption of that oneness of holy spirit. If anyone wants to rock the boat rather than submitting to that unified spirit they cannot be honorably baptized.
In Jesus we were shown grace so that we were able to learn the love of the Father and be brought to communion among ourselves and with God and the Son by that unity of one spirit among us. A spirit which must be holy if we are able to claim it from God.
Sultan Of Swing
Well-Known Member
Acts 5: But a man named Ananias, with his wife Sapphira, sold a piece of property,2 and with his wife's knowledge he kept back for himself some of the proceeds and brought only a part of it and laid it at the apostles' feet.3 But Peter said, “Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit and to keep back for yourself part of the proceeds of the land?4 While it remained unsold, did it not remain your own? And after it was sold, was it not at your disposal? Why is it that you have contrived this deed in your heart? You have not lied to man but to God.”5 When Ananias heard these words, he fell down and breathed his last. And great fear came upon all who heard of it.6 The young men rose and wrapped him up and carried him out and buried him.
"lied to the Holy Spirit... not lied to man but to God"
JayJayDee
Avid JW Bible Student
There is not one single reference to the Holy Spirit as "God the Holy Spirit", just as there is no reference to "God the Son". These titles were made up by the Catholic Church. There is no scripture that calls the Holy Spirit "God".
1 John 5:7 is a spurious verse mistranslated later to support the trinity. They were not in the original manuscripts.
That verse reads (in context)
1 John 5:5-12...."Who is the one who overcomes the world, but he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God? This is the One who came by water and blood, Jesus Christ; not with the water only, but with the water and with the blood. It is the Spirit who testifies, because the Spirit is the truth. For there are three that testify: the Spirit and the water and the blood; and the three are in agreement. If we receive the testimony of men, the testimony of God is greater; for the testimony of God is this, that He has testified concerning His Son. The one who believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself; the one who does not believe God has made Him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has given concerning His Son. And the testimony is this, that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. He who has the Son has the life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have the life." (NASB)
The "three" that testify are not part of a trinity. At Jesus' baptism, the water was used at his baptism, the holy spirit was used to empower the son of God to accomplish his ministry and the blood that he shed redeemed the human race descended from Adam. In this scripture, there is no reference to either Jesus or the holy spirit as God.
The Father is "the only true God" (John 17:3) His son was sent from heaven to fulfil a mission to rescue Adam's descendants, and the holy spirit is the power of God used to accomplish His will. These three work in harmony, not as a triune godhead, but as the means by which God fullfilled his eternal purpose in connection with saving Adam's children.
1 John 5:7 is a spurious verse mistranslated later to support the trinity. They were not in the original manuscripts.
That verse reads (in context)
1 John 5:5-12...."Who is the one who overcomes the world, but he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God? This is the One who came by water and blood, Jesus Christ; not with the water only, but with the water and with the blood. It is the Spirit who testifies, because the Spirit is the truth. For there are three that testify: the Spirit and the water and the blood; and the three are in agreement. If we receive the testimony of men, the testimony of God is greater; for the testimony of God is this, that He has testified concerning His Son. The one who believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself; the one who does not believe God has made Him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has given concerning His Son. And the testimony is this, that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. He who has the Son has the life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have the life." (NASB)
The "three" that testify are not part of a trinity. At Jesus' baptism, the water was used at his baptism, the holy spirit was used to empower the son of God to accomplish his ministry and the blood that he shed redeemed the human race descended from Adam. In this scripture, there is no reference to either Jesus or the holy spirit as God.
The Father is "the only true God" (John 17:3) His son was sent from heaven to fulfil a mission to rescue Adam's descendants, and the holy spirit is the power of God used to accomplish His will. These three work in harmony, not as a triune godhead, but as the means by which God fullfilled his eternal purpose in connection with saving Adam's children.
Conceivia
Working to save mankind
The definition of Spirit is "the prevailing or typical quality, mood, or attitude of a person, group, or period of time."
The definition of Holy, a little more complicated, 'cause dictionaries don't know it. You have to go through a thesaurus to figure it out, and not starting from the word Holy, which goes no where. Those definitions come from people who's minds are clouded by preconceptions. You got to start from knowing what it means, or pure luck or God leading you to it. Holy means unity, oneness, harmony, love, togetherness. etc.
The Holy Spirit therefore means the spirit that unites us into one people, one race. The spirit that makes us willing to give our lives to save mankind.
The Holy Spirit is basically the essence of World Peace.
That is what God is all about, for all we need be concerned with. To say that is God because of statements like that, is a stretch. You can stretch it if you want though. It isn't exactly a lie.
It may in fact be totally true, but I wouldn't assume it is true just because someone said something that hints at a connection.
I am all about World Peace, so if you want to stretch it and say I am the Holy Spirit, or that I am God... Don't! I don't like that kind of crap talk. That is just the kind of misunderstandings I'm talking about.
Tony
The definition of Holy, a little more complicated, 'cause dictionaries don't know it. You have to go through a thesaurus to figure it out, and not starting from the word Holy, which goes no where. Those definitions come from people who's minds are clouded by preconceptions. You got to start from knowing what it means, or pure luck or God leading you to it. Holy means unity, oneness, harmony, love, togetherness. etc.
The Holy Spirit therefore means the spirit that unites us into one people, one race. The spirit that makes us willing to give our lives to save mankind.
The Holy Spirit is basically the essence of World Peace.
That is what God is all about, for all we need be concerned with. To say that is God because of statements like that, is a stretch. You can stretch it if you want though. It isn't exactly a lie.
It may in fact be totally true, but I wouldn't assume it is true just because someone said something that hints at a connection.
I am all about World Peace, so if you want to stretch it and say I am the Holy Spirit, or that I am God... Don't! I don't like that kind of crap talk. That is just the kind of misunderstandings I'm talking about.
Tony
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Conceivia
Working to save mankind
Here is a clear statement by Jesus saying that Jesus is not the Holy Ghost, which should make Christians think God is not the Holy Ghost.
Mat 12:32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.
Mat 12:32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.
Mountain_Climber
Active Member
Again, to lie to the holy spirit is to betray the true and godly spirit of unity which must exist for any group of people to be accepted by and led of God. When one lies to the holy spirit they feign that unity just as Ananias and Sapphira. In this sense the holy spirit is the bond of godly truth and to speak falsely to it is to fight against it and God as it is through that unity of dedication to the holy spirit of godly truth (an indispensable part of godly true love) that we are able to sense God's will for us.
Mountain_Climber
Active Member
Yes, for that fulfills the greatest commandment to love God with our whole heart, mind, and soul (our completeness of being), and our neighbor as our self.
It requires a holy unselfish spirit being nourished in us to do that. By meditating on God's will for us in this regard we nourish our spirit to be holy and in that sense we can credit that spirit as being of God.
Then there are the parts where God actually steps in and transfers power through the holy spirit which we have protected in and among us, such as the miracles Jesus and the Apostles performed. But that is God issuing the miracle by blessing through the holy spirit we have cherished. And he does not always do that extra as his main purpose is to teach us to depend upon keeping and protecting the holy spirit in and among us which is as you describe.
Conceivia
Working to save mankind
Actually, according to that definition of Spirit, "the prevailing or typical quality, mood, or attitude of a person, group, or period of time.", the Holy Spirit seems to exactly fit the definition of God according to my theory, called "Highlife Theory", which explains what God is.
Highlife Theory - Examining the possiblity of life on Earth
Tony
Highlife Theory - Examining the possiblity of life on Earth
Tony
Mountain_Climber
Active Member
I was going to point that out about 1 John 5:7 but then decided to just go with it just as Thana had written in post number 5, so as to not add more to debate about.
As to this part of what you said, "At Jesus' baptism, the water was used at his baptism, the holy spirit was used to empower the son of God to accomplish his ministry", I think I would have worded that, (At Jesus' baptism, the water was used at his baptism, the holy spirit was used through which the son of God was empowered to accomplish his ministry.)
It is the presence of the holy spirit which God blesses, for it's presence is proof of our faithful dedication to his will. Jesus was the superlative example of that faithful dedication to maintaining the holy spirit as God's.
Mountain_Climber
Active Member
Certainly it like all creation glorifies him and so speaks of who he is.
It being more exact in this than any other tangible or intangible thing, it could easily be mistaken for being God. But what it really amounts to is the attitude of God, which attitude we must emulate in ourselves if he would further bless us.
But then, I reckon we could say that any of us are our attitudes. And so in that sense we could see the holy spirit as God. God can be seen in and through any of us if we have adopted to image God's attitude and allowed him to teach it to us.
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