Skwim
Veteran Member
A few commas or maybe re-wording would help here.
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Where in the Bible is the Holy Ghost (Spirit) identified as god?
- Thread starter Skwim
- Start date
Mountain_Climber
Active Member
Yes, and I have an 'English Grammar For Dummies' publication sitting right beside me on my desktop. So I have no excuse. LOL.
If I were a rebellious man, I then could be one with the unholy spirit of rebellion.
In that case, I would be one who testifies, using literal words, telling who I am by verbally expounding my rebellious ideas.
The unholy spirit, which spirit I would then be one with and living by it, it would testify about me using unspoken words, that is, words articulated only by my actions.
Actions often speak louder than words.
Now do I get some spinach?
kjw47
Well-Known Member
It is because of their darkness they teach the HS is God--the HS isn't a living being it is Gods active force--it was God who asked a question, it was God who desired an answer the HS was a go between, The trinity teachers twist it.
Mountain_Climber
Active Member
I cannot help but notice that it seems the many are becoming exhausted on the various threads that I have observed in this sight. It has become quite common to see answers that are just a plain statement of opinion with no attempt to reason on the point involved from scripture. I agree with what you here said but also know it is just like telling someone that they are blind and nothing more.
We must dig for the causes and try to present those causes if anyone is to benefit from our comment. And we need to assure others that we are not singling them out as unique to the problem; that we also have this fight and from time to time have found ourselves at times to have been blind. Not only that, but, we recognize that blindness yet lingers over in us all in ways we have yet to find and do something about.
My opinion is that we miss out on understanding because we tend to always see the holy spirit as a primary living force of God rather than at times as the abstract force born of the superior quality of God's given word on things. (John 6:63 "It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.")
We have our opinions but does God have an opinion? Is an opinion a mere speculation as to what in our own estimation may well constitute fact? If that be the case, then, does God give us his opinion on things or does God give us the facts?
If I set in motion among my family my word that to observe certain codes of conduct will produce the best outcome for my family in certain situations, do I not set forth a spirit in which they, if they are willing to listen to me, will walk and, by walking after that spirit, they will hope to achieve the results I assured them of being able to obtain? And so, has not the spirit of my words moved them to observe and to walk that certain way and has not that spirit even affected their mental/emotional state deep within, in accord with the intensity with which they believed me?
That is how the most common issuing of spirit occurs. Where do we make room for that of God? Do we imagine we are the only ones with that power or do we see that God, too, has that power in words for our direction because he cares about us, even as we care for our families?
Most of us yet have work to do demystifying this matter. What we are able to do is because we are created in God's image. Anything we are able to do we have to know he does better. For we do what we do in short-sightedness of which comes much flaw. God does the same as we except with full-sightedness, so that when he sets forth a spirit by his words in which we are to walk we can safely trust that it is holy and reliable.
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djhwoodwerks
Well-Known Member
Hello everyone. I just joined the forum. I hope you don't mind if I chime in on this discussion.
I believe in the Trinity and that Jesus is God. I would like to take a comment from the July 15, 2013 Watchtower to argue the validity of the Trinity. The JW's do not believe in the Trinity because they can't comprehend how 3 persons can be in one body. Which, that belief is kind of strange to me because of what the GB tells them. This is a comment from the 7/15/13 Watchtower:
" Note, however, that the word “slave” in Jesus’ illustration is singular, indicating that this is a composite slave. The decisions of the Governing Body are thus made collectively." The 8 members can exist as a "COMPOSIT" slave, but there is no "HUMANLY" way possible that God, Who exists outside of time and space can exist as a "COMPOSIT" God. The Trinity!
I believe in the Trinity and that Jesus is God. I would like to take a comment from the July 15, 2013 Watchtower to argue the validity of the Trinity. The JW's do not believe in the Trinity because they can't comprehend how 3 persons can be in one body. Which, that belief is kind of strange to me because of what the GB tells them. This is a comment from the 7/15/13 Watchtower:
" Note, however, that the word “slave” in Jesus’ illustration is singular, indicating that this is a composite slave. The decisions of the Governing Body are thus made collectively." The 8 members can exist as a "COMPOSIT" slave, but there is no "HUMANLY" way possible that God, Who exists outside of time and space can exist as a "COMPOSIT" God. The Trinity!
Mountain_Climber
Active Member
I am not a Jehovah's Witness per the present day Organizational name. I consider myself to be a witness of Jehovah and of the Christ, just not as recognized by this world.
I looked for the article you cited and could not find that exact quote. I did find some similar thoughts, however.
My impression is that Jehovah's Witnesses do recognize that Jesus is one with God in purpose and activity, that the Father does all things through the Son and has done so from the Son's beginning. Yet they are two separate and distinct persons.
Working together as one in purpose and activity means to work as by one spirit. If two spirits or dominating attitudes sought to work at the same goal there would always be differences by each person's individual origination of ideas as to what was best to be done at given times and places. But when the younger yields to the greater experience of the elder, letting only the ideas of the elder lead the way, then there is no conflict caused of individuality. Mankind's being created "in our image, after our likeness" (Genesis 3: 26), this is a vital picture for us to see and understand.
As I see it, the main point that Jehovah's Witnesses have focused on is that of not letting that most important aspect of the relationship between God and the Son get lost to foolish debate.
The Governing Body (GB) of Jehovah's Witnesses do not proclaim to be God nor even to be infallible. They merely recognize that Jesus said, "And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one: I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me." (John 17: 22-23)
Notice how verse John 17: 23, there, says, "that they may be made perfect in one .." Can you grasp that Jesus is speaking of how he himself was made perfect in the Father and desiring to share that with his disciples? Read this of verse 22, again: "the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one".
Are you willing to admit, then, that we see in those verses the following two things concerning Jesus? (1) The Father gave Jesus his glory, and (2) Jesus was perfected in the Father.
Can you grasp that, just as the scriptures tell us, "he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit" (1 Corinthians 6: 17)?
The KJV saw fit not to capitalize the word, "spirit", there, but it is the exact same word often capitalized many other places in the New Testament. Now, we can properly understand 1 Corinthians 6: 17 to be saying, "he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit with the Lord."
What do you suppose that one spirit is that we are in the Lord? Here is a little help to decide: Ephesians 4:4 "There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling.." And notice that there the KJV saw fit to capitalize the word, "spirit".
moorea944
Well-Known Member
Unification
Well-Known Member
Consciousness (the Father), the mind of God (the Word), and the Whole Life (Holy Spirit).
Holy means "whole." ONE.
Spirit means "breath." Conscious life.
Word means "logos." Philosophy. Mind.
Earth in scripture means the physical brain and body made of matter.
Consciousness(the Spirit), water(energy), and blood(physical life.)
Water in scripture means energy.
Of course these words or the technology didn't exist way back then. They are in metaphors hidden in the words.
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Mountain_Climber
Active Member
That does sound similar to how I see the matter.
Although as it pertains to whether certain verses were added I tend to favor the evidence as supported by viewing older manuscripts, yet with a great deal of caution.
Unification
Well-Known Member
And whosoever speaketh a word against the truth of mankind, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Whole Life(collective conscious), it shall not be forgiven him.
Blasphemy against the collective conscious means ignorance. Ignoring truth. Slow to recognize what is true from false and false from true, hardening ones heart and mind and ignoring the conscious thoughts placed in our minds. There can be no change of mind and forgiveness if one ignores awareness and their own better judgements.
Unification
Well-Known Member
God is the consciousness(brain) of the physical body(vehicle) made of energy and matter, water and blood. Individually.
Universally, consciousness is still head of energy and matter.
Unification
Well-Known Member
What is "God?"
Unification
Well-Known Member
If all scripture was inspired by the Holy Spirit and the Holy Spirit is not God, then the bible is not the word of God since it would be the word of the Holy Spirit, which would make it not the word of God.
Nada
#
According to the holy scriptures,the holy spirit is Gods active force,His power.Men were inspired to write by way of the holy spirit.It is called the helper.This is the same force that was used to create the entire universe.God's word is the holy scriptures.God the Almighty is not three.He is one.Jesus is His Son and first creation.The holy spirit is God's active force.
moorea944
Well-Known Member
Not sure what your getting at.....
Unification
Well-Known Member
Force and power are energy. Then Holy Spirit is energy. Energy was used to create the entire universe.
God is light. What is light? Electromagnetic energy.
God isn't the Holy Spirit then?
God is ONE in three forms. Consciousness, matter, and energy.
If consciousness resides in a being, then God resides in a being. If energy resides in a being, then God resides in a being. If matter resides in a being, then God resides in a being.
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Muffled
Jesus in me
I don't believe a person who truly understands scripture can hold to this position except from stubbornness having been brainwashed that the teaching must be right.
Muffled
Jesus in me
I believe the Holy Spirit guided the selection of writings when determining which were acceptable and which not.
I believe this may be true but the alternate teachings were not destroyed because they are still around.
I believe it is as prophecy but it isn't as clear as one would like but then prophecies tend to be that way.
I believe that we are made in His image and therefore spirit also except that we are finite while God is infinite.
I believe the Gospels count as written.
I believe that is true and one should not confuse the members of the Trinity but the evidence is that the spirit of God is the Paraclete (Holy Spirit).
John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my word: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
I believe it doesn't but the previous verse does.
I believe the Trinity is all about a perception of God being split up even though that does not occur in reality.
I believe you have this correct.