What Happens When You Die?

Sha'irullah · Dec 20, 2014

We know for a fact that all qualia are thanks to the power of perception offered by the brain. The brain is more than a hard-drive and is actually a sensory organ. It is responsible for the entirety of our bodily functions as we are living and then of course you have independent responses that are free of the brain but all of these are biological as well.

Particular muscle reactions for example occur independently of the brain. But our own self awareness and sense of being is a direct product of the brain. If you are asserting an afterlife you are claiming that human consciousness and perception occur independently of the brain which is entirely not true. Just like reactive muscles and tissue they are are bound by flesh and occur independent of the self but that does not make them departed from the earth. The same applies for the human soul. It is at the end of the day apart of the natural world.

Despite the fact we feel departed from the natural world our sense of self is still dependent upon the brain and will always be so. That is the way it is and always shall be. Asserting what happens after death is presuming something without basis of evidence. Even if a person's heart topped temporarily and came back to life this would still be a product of qualia that is originated from the brain because that person's brain is functioning before and afterwards without with no ability to prove independence of it altogether.

Sure many have claimed to have out of body experiences yet so have drug addicts and this is reproducible all the time. No matter what you claim it will always loop back to your earthly shackles.

Every soul is a obedient to the cosmos and will always live and die in accordance to natural laws that are dictated and obeyed because nothing exist independently from it. Afterlives are just ways humans can emotionally respond to this fate which denies autonomy. We all want freedom but it is better to have real enslavement than false freedom. A delusional presumption is still delusional at the end of the day.

godnotgod · Dec 20, 2014

Indira said:
I don't understand where 'local or non local' reasoning is coming from?

The idea is that, if consciousness originates in the brain, then it is local. The brain generates consciousness. This is generally the view, called 'emergent theory', of scientists and atheists, who maintain that when the brain dies, that is the end of the person. Nothing survives beyond physical termination. Others, particularly mystics, maintain that consciousness is universal, in the sense that the brain is immersed in a sea of consciousness. This is non-local consciousness. In this view, it is consciousness that creates the brain and all physical reality, and not the other way around. It's also called 'downward causation', as opposed to emergent theory, which is upward causation. Here, consciousness has relegated autonomic background functions to the brain so that consciousness can focus on what is immediately present. That the brain is capable of non-local responses has been shown in many experiments, particularly the landmark research by Jacobo-Grinberg Zylberbaum, here:

....and here:

http://www.deanradin.com/FOC2014/Grinberg1994.pdf

Indira · Dec 20, 2014

godnotgod said:
The idea is that, if consciousness originates in the brain, then it is local. The brain generates consciousness. This is generally the view, called 'emergent theory', of scientists and atheists, who maintain that when the brain dies, that is the end of the person. Nothing survives beyond physical termination. Others, particularly mystics, maintain that consciousness is universal, in the sense that the brain is immersed in a sea of consciousness. This is non-local consciousness. In this view, it is consciousness that creates the brain and all physical reality, and not the other way around. It's also called 'downward causation', as opposed to emergent theory, which is upward causation. Here, consciousness has relegated autonomic background functions to the brain so that consciousness can focus on what is immediately present. That the brain is capable of non-local responses has been shown in many experiments, particularly the landmark research by Jacobo-Grinberg Zylberbaum, here:

....and here:

http://www.deanradin.com/FOC2014/Grinberg1994.pdf

Oh, yes i know of that view just not the descriptive words local and non local. My view is the brain is a vehicle to organize our minds knowledge but is often confused by ego consciousness. That is why the brain needs to be silenced and ego consciousness as a whole nuetralized for our being to view our Buddha nature. This Buddhist believes there to be 8 consciousnesses. That said..the brain can adapt to clear light given clear signals.

Aupmanyav · Dec 20, 2014

Spiny Norman said:
Sure, but that really doesn't tell us much about the nature of consciousness, beyond observing that it arises at birth and ceases at death.

Consciousness is only a matter of chemicals and electrical discharges.

psychoslice · Dec 21, 2014

When you die its all over, the story has finished, for that's all it was, a story. Your body will decompose, or brought to charcoal if you are incinerated. There is no after life, there is just this life, so live it as if its your last, and you will realize how important this life is without worrying about another.

Rick O'Shez · Dec 21, 2014

Aupmanyav said:
Consciousness is only a matter of chemicals and electrical discharges.

Consciousness depends on those things, but that's not the same as saying that consciousness is those things. Neuroscience is still in it's infancy and consciousness is still poorly understood.

psychoslice · Dec 21, 2014

Spiny Norman said:
Consciousness depends on those things, but that's not the same as saying that consciousness is those things. Neuroscience is still in it's infancy and consciousness is still poorly understood.

Well said.

godnotgod · Dec 21, 2014

Indira said:
Oh, yes i know of that view just not the descriptive words local and non local. My view is the brain is a vehicle to organize our minds knowledge but is often confused by ego consciousness. That is why the brain needs to be silenced and ego consciousness as a whole nuetralized for our being to view our Buddha nature. This Buddhist believes there to be 8 consciousnesses. That said..the brain can adapt to clear light given clear signals.

Yes indeed. The very fact that the brain can be subdued via conscious attention indicates that consciousness is in control. But only those who have some of the meditative experience would know that. Beyond this quieting down of brain activity (what Zen people call 'monkey mind', LOL), it is said that the brain can then be supercharged via Kundalini energies traveling upward along the spinal chord, thereby releasing the brain's true potential beyond the conditioned mind.

We also now have several scientific studies of long term meditators, particularly of Buddhist monks, that show their cerebral cortexes having grown thicker than non-meditators, further data indicating that consciousness grows the material brain.

But the problem of the doer remains. We may think that we are the ones initiating meditation and thought, that we are the ones causing the brain to be quieted, etc, when, in reality, it is non-local ego-less consciousness that comes into play once the over active mind-brain decelerates. 'I' is an illusion. Only universal consciousness is real. The more we begin to see this, the more the ego will put up a fight to stay alive, doing everything possible to stay in the dominant position.

godnotgod · Dec 21, 2014

Aupmanyav said:
Consciousness is only a matter of chemicals and electrical discharges.

That is emergent theory in a nutshell, which is not even yet a scientific theory, but only still a hypothesis, but a poor one at that. If what you're saying is true, then demonstrate how chemicals and electrical discharges create consciousness. That is to say, how does material reality create non-material reality?

Thief · Dec 21, 2014

'mud said:
Like birth and later death, the inner being within one's knowing comes forth.
It is there before existance, and lingers shortly, and goes forward into another form.
It will greet the surrounding realities of the new emergence with it's own being.
And it goes, forward and ever into infinity and beyond.
~
Many religions follow this way of thinking, not exactly, but close.
May the memories of you amongst others be the best of you.
~
hey GNG....some good thinking there...likeable...in a lot of ways.
~
'mud

Who does the remembering?...who does the forgetting?
hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe

Aupmanyav · Dec 21, 2014

godnotgod said:
That is emergent theory in a nutshell, which is not even yet a scientific theory, but only still a hypothesis, but a poor one at that. If what you're saying is true, then demonstrate how chemicals and electrical discharges create consciousness. That is to say, how does material reality create non-material reality?

The prick of a pin, pain sensation transmitted to the brain. Like it or not like it? Who feels the pain? It is ME, ME, ME. I want it to be removed. -> Consciousness.

godnotgod · Dec 21, 2014

Aupmanyav said:
The prick of a pin, pain sensation transmitted to the brain. Like it or not like it? Who feels the pain? It is ME, ME, ME. I want it to be removed. -> Consciousness.

That there is an 'I' or 'me' that feels the pain, or who wants it removed, is just an illusion. In reality, there is only pain-feeling, and desire for removal, without a pain-feeler, nor a desirer for removal. The brain's response is hard wired in to protect the body, transmitted to consciousness for attention to the danger or problem. The instant the pin prick is felt, there is only 'Ouch!'. A microsecond later, there is the thought: 'Oh! I pricked myself with a pin!'. It is at that moment that the mind self creates itself as 'I', as the agent that feels pain and desires pin removal. 'I' and 'me' are just excess baggage.

Rick O'Shez · Dec 21, 2014

godnotgod said:
'I' and 'me' are just excess baggage.

Or are they the product of the evolutionary survival instinct?

Thief · Dec 21, 2014

godnotgod said:
That there is an 'I' or 'me' that feels the pain, or who wants it removed, is just an illusion. In reality, there is only pain-feeling, and desire for removal, without a pain-feeler, nor a desirer for removal. The brain's response is hard wired in to protect the body, transmitted to consciousness for attention to the danger or problem. The instant the pin prick is felt, there is only 'Ouch!'. A microsecond later, there is the thought: 'Oh! I pricked myself with a pin!'. It is at that moment that the mind self creates itself as 'I', as the agent that feels pain and desires pin removal. 'I' and 'me' are just excess baggage.

So drop the baggage....enlighten your load.
hehehehehehehehe

Rick O'Shez · Dec 21, 2014

Thief said:
So drop the baggage....enlighten your load.

Yes, and all those beliefs and opinions can get very heavy too! Let's drop all of them and admit that we know diddly squat. Ignorance is bliss!

Thief · Dec 21, 2014

Spiny Norman said:
Yes, and all those beliefs and opinions can get very heavy too! Let's drop all of them and admit that we know diddly squat. Ignorance is bliss!

Yeah well.....standing before heaven and pleading ignorance may prove to be a bit of a trick.

Like you never heard anything worthwhile.....?

Aupmanyav · Dec 21, 2014

godnotgod said:
The instant the pin prick is felt, there is only 'Ouch!'. A microsecond later, there is the thought: 'Oh! I pricked myself with a pin!'. It is at that moment that the mind self creates itself as 'I', as the agent that feels pain and desires pin removal. 'I' and 'me' are just excess baggage.

The feeling also is excess baggage. Maya's doing.

Indira · Dec 21, 2014

Spiny Norman said:
Yes, and all those beliefs and opinions can get very heavy too! Let's drop all of them and admit that we know diddly squat. Ignorance is bliss!

I view much suffering and fear in ignorance..beliefs and opinions need not be chaotic, heavy or confusing. Balanced assessment of all possibilities is necessary though.

godnotgod · Dec 21, 2014

Spiny Norman said:
Yes, and all those beliefs and opinions can get very heavy too! Let's drop all of them and admit that we know diddly squat. Ignorance is bliss!

There is ignorance, then there is not-knowing. The former is the cause of much of our suffering, the latter the basis for the enlightened state.

`mud · Dec 21, 2014

Ignorance of what factor ? Spiny was talking about beliefs and opinions, wasn't he ?
I think some ignorance of the somewhat warped involvement in all these indulgences is sick !
My focus is on the angel on a pinpoint, even on the head, a thousand of them, even only one ???
I'll chose ignorance of these factors every time I get to, no fear involved in escaping these fallacies.
With the belief in Jesus' accomplishments, I can condone, but not any further. No god needed.
Thief asked about the remembering of where the memory comes and where it goes.....
Beliefs are factors of life, the coming and going, we come as chemicals and go to same.
It's what one does in life that really matters, do no harm and love life, that's all there is.
I always say, if one dies, remember, if alive, enjoy, when born, rejoice.
nuff stuff,
~
'mud

What Happens When You Die?

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Thou art That

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