Originally Posted by
Poeticus
Luis,
The Mahabharata War was not a religious war.
It may well have lacked a religious justification. War always has a religious meaning, since it causes grief, harm and murder.
Luis here is where a person needs a Hindu understanding of Dharma , ....
one canot apply the notion of religious war as understood by abrahamic faiths , ...
religion within dharmic faiths is the execution of ones sadhana and ones worship .
war in this instance is a Kshatriya's dharma , ...no matter whether one is religious or not one still has the responcibility of ones dharma ...
as has allready been explained krsna explains to Arjuna that you canot kill the allready dead , ....the entire MahaBharata is a very complex account of the implication of action and reaction , ...if the entire text is read under the instruction of a guru or teacher who can explain the intricacies you will come to understand that the Kauravas by their own actions have brought about the outcome which must be , ....Krsna explains this to Arjuna by saying that they are allready dead , ....maybe we canot understand this from a conventional level as we see them in this account alive and ready for battle , ....but because of their previous unjust behavior they have allready brought about their eventual demise , ...krsna explains this to Arjuna , and rightly Arjuna questions this as he does not want to kill , ...krsna explains that if Arjuna does not do what needs to be done that Krsna will himself have to do the needfull ,.... as the conclusion had allready been determined by their previous actions.
it is for these reasons that it is imperative that the Gita is read in its true context as the previous chapters of the Mahabarata give the background , the Gita gives the discourse between Krsna and Arjuna they canot be eperated or judged seperately .
Quote:
Originally Posted by
nameless
What do you mean by 'to protect'? shielding by not harming those who initiates an attack?
That is one way. A better one is to seek and employ ways of avoiding the actual violence before it has to happen.
as I think others have explained krsna made every effort to advise the Kauravas against their unrightious behavior , but his advice went unheaded .
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Madhuri
But in Hinduism a warrior should only fight under certain circumstances. He is not a blood thirsty barbarian- he is a protector of his people and his society. He should not be invasive- he should be protecting his own from invasion. I'm not sure how to view these people as anything other than protectors from the Hindu perspective.
By the time a warrior uses a weapon to maim or kill an "enemy" he becomes a violent barbarian. I don't think we can or should attempt to fairly perceive that in any other way.
this is like saying a man sent to kill a rabid dog becomes a violent barbarian the moment he lifts his gun , .....unfortunately some one must perform this duty , not only is the dog dangerous to others but it will eventualy die as the law of cause and efect has allready come into play , ...allthough this dog is still alive it is also allready destined to die , isnt it better in this instance to do the needfull and save any more harm coming to others , this is not an act of Barborism or violence it is a responcibiity that someone must do and the one who is the best shot will be asked to perform this task swiftly and eficiently .
Luis
Circumstances may make it so that he has no choice. But that amounts to saying that his failure is predetermined by those circunstances. That may and does happen, and we should take a sober perspective to that fact.
if you read the full account in the Mahabarata you will see that this is war is not brought about lightly ,
Luis
Protection from invasion is an dangerous criterium to use, in my opinion. Invasions are ultimately a fairly arbitrary concept at best.
this battle is not about protection from invasion it is about maintaining rightious rule , the Mahabarata makes it clear that this must be done and that Krsna appears at the end of Dvarpara yuga solely for the purpose of establishing rightiousness before the begining of the coming age of Kali yuga , ....
Luis
People do not sprout out of the soil for a purpose. They reproduce and live in territory at least somewhat out of their own volition. Invasions can be both avoided and made unavoidable by careless or judicious use of several forms of pressure.
agreed normal beings reproduce and give birth to the physical bodies that are then inhabited be the jiva , even the bodies each jiva inhabits is to some extent governed by his past Karma , there fore to be born in any given circumstance is a part of ones spiritual progress and there will be obsticals to overcome and duties to perform , this must be done .
yes invasions can be overcome by thoughtfull intervention , but is often the case even when one party has the insight to advise against a particular action (as Krsna did in this case do) ..not everyone has the foersight to listen , ....
Luis
While I can't blame a person for attempting to ward off violence directed towards himself and his loved ones, I will most definitely stop short of defending the existence of an actual military force, let alone a caste. And I will not simply accept war as unavoidable. Human beings must aim higher than that.
we must all do our best to avert the nececity for military action , but there are times when the brave who are prepaiered to do their duty for the sake of maintaining peace must be supported , it is no use us saying I will defend my own family but I will not engage in war , in truth we are all one family it is just that we do not realise it , it is as much our duty to protect our own as it is to protect others unknown to us , this is our duty , our Dharma , ....this must be understood , only when we all understand our duty and act accordingly will there be the possibility of life without war.