Survival

InChrist said:

If as the biblical scriptures say Jesus will return to judge sin and evil on the earth who will be able to survive?


And the kings of the earth, the great men, the rich men, the commanders,the mighty men, every slave and every free man, hid themselves in the caves and in the rocks of the mountains, and said to the mountains and rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of Him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb! For the great day of His wrath has come, and who is able to stand?” Revelation 6:15-17

Click to expand...

InChrist said:

If as the biblical scriptures say Jesus will return to judge sin and evil on the earth who will be able to survive?


And the kings of the earth, the great men, the rich men, the commanders,the mighty men, every slave and every free man, hid themselves in the caves and in the rocks of the mountains, and said to the mountains and rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of Him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb! For the great day of His wrath has come, and who is able to stand?” Revelation 6:15-17

Click to expand...

Call_of_the_Wild said:

Well unfortunately, there isn't much teaching on Christian Apologetics in churches. That is one of the many things that are lacking in Christianity. If there were, then the believer would have no problem responding to "How do you know the Bible/Koran is the word of God".

Click to expand...

Ouroboros said:

Who will be able to survive? Well... the quote doesn't say people would die, but rather the opposite. Jesus is so scary that people fall down, unable to stand up, and wish they were dead. So I'm not sure how the quote turns into a question of survival?

Click to expand...

Shermana said:

The people who survive will be the ones who obey the Commandments of God.

Sorry anti-nomian Pauline Chrisitans, you're outta luck. But hey, when you reject what Jesus explicitly teaches, what do you expect?

Rev 14:12

King James 2000 Bible
Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Young's Literal Translation
Here is endurance of the saints: here are those keeping the commands of God, and the faith of Jesus.'

Best translation:

New American Standard Bible
Here is the perseverance of the saints who keep the commandments of God and their faith in Jesus.

Click to expand...

Ingledsva said:

Technically that "stand" means "stand against" as in a military assault.

It is basically saying -

Hide us, for who can stand against his powerful wrath.

*

Click to expand...

KenS said:

???

I'm not sure what you mean by Pauline Christians. What do they have to do with this scripture?

Click to expand...

3. The writer of Revelation was a Christian

The author of Revelation hated Rome, but he also scorned another group – a group of people we would call Christians today, Pagels says.

There’s a common perception that there was a golden age of Christianity, when most Christians agreed on an uncontaminated version of the faith. Yet there was never one agreed-upon Christianity. There were always clashing visions.

Revelation reflects some of those early clashes in the church, Pagels says.

That idea isn’t new territory for Pagels. She won the National Book Award for “The Gnostic Gospels,” a 1979 book that examined a cache of newly discovered “secret” gospels of Jesus. The book, along with other work from Pagels, argues that there were other accounts of Jesus’ life that were suppressed by early church leaders because it didn’t fit with their agenda.

The author of Revelation was like an activist crusading for traditional values. In his case, he was a devout Jew who saw Jesus as the messiah. But he didn’t like the message that the apostle Paul and other followers of Jesus were preaching.

This new message insisted that gentiles could become followers of Jesus without adopting the requirements of the Torah. It accepted women leaders, and intermarriage with gentiles, Pagels says.

Click to expand...

Alceste said:

You have a logical argument for the existence of hell that doesn't depend on the Bible being the word of God? I'd love to hear it!

Click to expand...

Call_of_the_Wild said:

The historicity based on the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus Christ for one thing.

Click to expand...

InChrist said:

If as the biblical scriptures say Jesus will return to judge sin and evil on the earth who will be able to survive?

Click to expand...

InChrist said:

And the kings of the earth, the great men, the rich men, the commanders,the mighty men, every slave and every free man, hid themselves in the caves and in the rocks of the mountains, and said to the mountains and rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of Him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb! For the great day of His wrath has come, and who is able to stand?” Revelation 6:15-17

Click to expand...

Shermana said:

:beach:

Most people who go by Paul believe they don't have to actually obey any commandments as part of their salvation, and go by a purely "Saved by grace" Theology and are generally anti-legalist. Despite what Jesus taught. Who caers what Jesus taught. Some have even said that Revelation contains hints that Paul was a false teacher (or THE false teacher of Ephesus), by arguing against doctrines such as that it was permissible to eat meat sacrificed to idols. In reverse, some in favor of Pauline Christianity have said Revelation is heretical because of such.

They also seem to have a very strange, often circular and mininimalist idea of what "Commandments of God" means. (As if "Love" is the only commandment).

Besides Jesus himself, as well as arguably James and John and to an extent Jude, Revelation is quite clear that these "doers of lawlessness" who feel that the commandments are now done away with will not be among the "Survivors".

Revelation is a very Jewish, or rather, Nazarene, book.

Click to expand...

Juanita said:

Sorry, I don't believe in fairy tales.. There "may" have been a man named Jesus--or there may not have been, but if so that's about it--the rest is imagination, untruths, and hearsay...

Click to expand...

Shermana said:

The people who survive will be the ones who obey the Commandments of God.

Sorry anti-nomian Pauline Chrisitans, you're outta luck. But hey, when you reject what Jesus explicitly teaches, what do you expect?

Rev 14:12

King James 2000 Bible
Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Young's Literal Translation
Here is endurance of the saints: here are those keeping the commands of God, and the faith of Jesus.'

Best translation:

New American Standard Bible
Here is the perseverance of the saints who keep the commandments of God and their faith in Jesus.

Click to expand...

Mestemia said:

So much for John 3:16....

Click to expand...

John 3:16 For God so loved the world [every man] that he gave his only begotten Son [to every man], so that whoever believes in [depends on, trusts, obeys] him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

It is not enough to believe that Jesus is the Son of God; even the demons believe that Jesus is the Son of the most High God, and they tremble. You must believe what Jesus, the light and word within your heart, shows and says to you; to believe what He says and shows to you is to believe in Jesus. Christ is the light given to every man so that he might believe. John 1:1-4,7,9. To believe is to believe what you hear Him speak to you; believe enough to heed and obey Jesus, who is the Word of God and light of the Word in each man's heart that anonymously reproves you, (and every man), of sin. As the companion verses below (19,20,21) say: "And this is the condemnation, that light has come into the world (every man), but men loved darkness rather than light because their deeds were evil. For everyone who does evil deeds (sins) hates the light (so hates Christ, who is the light) and does not come to the light for fear his deeds will be exposed and reproved. But he who practices truth comes to the light, so that his deeds may be shown to have been produced (effected, formed, prompted, energized) through God." To have eternal life is to have lost your fleshly life, having persistently believed and obeyed Jesus' spoken commands to you, so that you enter union with Him, to then obey His ordered deeds to His glory and your joy.

Click to expand...

KenS said:

I'm sure that one can find any type of subset belief system that deviates from the norm. And I'm not even sure that your views are correct either by what little posts I have read from you. Perhaps because of the sites you're viewing?

for an example… Paul says in Gal 5:21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, reveling, and such like: of the which I tell you before , as I have also told you in time past , that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. Clearly in line with Revelation.

Perhaps people misunderstand the difference between baby christians, carnal christians, mature christians, wolves dressed like christians and antichrists.

Click to expand...

Shermana said:

Rather, so much for the widespread misinterpretation of what it means to "Believe in" Jesus. The word Pisteuon I believe is more or less "be persuaded by" as in "Follow and obey" rather than this concept of "believe in" like "What do you believe in". I'm persuaded it means to "be persuaded by", considering the general context of the rest of the text. But it's obviously much more convenient and gives more security to simply say it means to "believe in" like "I believe in ghosts". It's about your actions being in conformity to what Jesus teaches, which you may have noticed, is fiercely revolted against by most Christians who hate the idea of their works having anything to do with it, for some odd reason.

Here is a very rare example of Antinomian Christians who understand this concept.

John 3:16 in Context

Click to expand...

InChrist said:

If as the biblical scriptures say Jesus will return to judge sin and evil on the earth who will be able to survive?


And the kings of the earth, the great men, the rich men, the commanders,the mighty men, every slave and every free man, hid themselves in the caves and in the rocks of the mountains, and said to the mountains and rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of Him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb! For the great day of His wrath has come, and who is able to stand?” Revelation 6:15-17

Click to expand...

Shermana said:

Rather, so much for the widespread misinterpretation of what it means to "Believe in" Jesus. The word Pisteuon I believe is more or less "be persuaded by" as in "Follow and obey" rather than this concept of "believe in" like "What do you believe in". I'm persuaded it means to "be persuaded by", considering the general context of the rest of the text. But it's obviously much more convenient and gives more security to simply say it means to "believe in" like "I believe in ghosts". It's about your actions being in conformity to what Jesus teaches, which you may have noticed, is fiercely revolted against by most Christians who hate the idea of their works having anything to do with it, for some odd reason.

Click to expand...

FranklinMichaelV.3 said:

Well the argument is what were the commands. For instance he gave specific commandments to the disciples but did not give those same commandments to the crowd. For instance spreading the good news was one given to the Disciples, to the crowds he gave different blessings and commandments.

Click to expand...