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Why do non-believers go to Hell?

Ceridwen018

Ceridwen018

Well-Known Member
Haha, you are absolutely correct. I do love horses, and that love creates a spiritual experience for me when I'm around them...I just don't link that love to god is all. Perhaps we should agree to disagree on this one, for whether love is caused by god or not is purely opinion based on other beliefs.
 
D

destinata7

Member
I still don't believe that you are completely grasping what I'm saying. If you are and just do not agree, that's OK. I just want to be sure you understand where I'm coming from here.

I John 4:8

He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.



I'm not saying that God has love. I'm saying that God is love. Furthermore, that love has a consciousness that radiates love...or God. There are many levels of love, however, and there is also "pure" love.

When you truly feel love, even if a lower level of love, you are truly feeling God. That is how Jesus( the representative of God) is in your heart......in the form of love potential that has been inside you since the day you were formed!

So it doesn't matter to me if you agree or not. If you say "I believe in love", you're still on the right track and not as far from my beliefs as you really think.

Of note is your description of your interaction with your horses as a "spiritual" experience.....

Your suppressed true beliefs keep leaking out! :wink:
 
Ceridwen018

Ceridwen018

Well-Known Member
Hey! Atheists can be spiritual too! You don't have to believe in god to be spiritual or believe in love. I know what you're trying to say, and so I guess we're just disagreeing by way of semantics. You say love is god, I say love is endorphins, thats all!
 
R

Ronald

Well-Known Member
The Godly, the ungodly and a form of Godliness. Ro. 1 :18-23 The creation reveals the creator God, one who looks at nature and refuses to see God, who would rather believe in the big bang, those are given ample time and ample proof of a creator God, in the end, that one willfuly enters the second death.
I prefer the Judaism aproach, the righteous of all nations will share in the world to come. Hell/Tarteroo is reserved for satan, the beast and the false prophet.
The Ceator is expecting refined Gold and Silver in the end time, those who pass through the fire and the dross is burned off will be Kingdom dwellers.
 
Ceridwen018

Ceridwen018

Well-Known Member
Ronald,

I am sorry, but you mentioned 'ample proof' of a 'creator god'. The reality of it is is that there is absolutely no proof of god anywhere except for in the bible, and that is circular reasoning and so it can't be considered a solid source.

If you have proof, I would love for you to share it with me.
 
Ardhanariswar

Ardhanariswar

I'm back!
what about miricles? marian appartions, etc...?

the point of faith is not to NEED proof, but to believe and have faith in God.
 
R

Ronald

Well-Known Member
Ceridwen018 said:
Ronald,

I am sorry, but you mentioned 'ample proof' of a 'creator god'. The reality of it is is that there is absolutely no proof of god anywhere except for in the bible, and that is circular reasoning and so it can't be considered a solid source.

If you have proof, I would love for you to share it with me.
Click to expand...

Read, Ro.1:20. Paul says it better than I can. Look at a hummingbird, I'll give you a million years to create one, but remember you will have to provide your own dust. An orderly universe requires a lawgiver.
Either honor God or be given up to futile thinking. If you can't see God in creation, I certainly have no way to prove it to you. When you see a Great White Throne, it will be too late to say "I believe."
Shalom u'vrachot/ peace and a blessing
 
Ceridwen018

Ceridwen018

Well-Known Member
Ronald,

I see what you're saying here, but when I look at creation I see scientific patterns at work. I could say that I see god in creation, but that would be as shallow as saying I see the great pink unicorn in all of creation because *there is no proof*.

And who says that our universe is orderly by any means? A 'lawgiver' is in no way necessary for our universe to function as is.
 
Sam Bloom

Sam Bloom

Member
Well, I always have trouble understanding why more than half of us are going to Hell after we die. I know the Bible states, "many are called but few are chosen", and "straight is the gate, and narrow is the way that leadeth unto salvation, and few there be that find it. "

Maybe God, who loves all of us, could have found a better way?
 
Ceridwen018

Ceridwen018

Well-Known Member
That's a good point Sam. It makes god seem a little sadistic to me if he is really only 'saving' a handful out of billions of people.
 
Master Vigil

Master Vigil

Well-Known Member
I was watching the Family Guy last night. And it was the one where peters dad retired from the mill and went to live with them. And he would read Stuart bed time stories from the bible. And stuart loved them because they were all about how god would damn people and they would burn in hell and stuff like that. And I remember one line Stuart said. It goes a little something like this...

I love this god fellow... hes so deliciously evil!!!
 
R

Ronald

Well-Known Member
Ceridwen018 said:
Ronald,

I see what you're saying here, but when I look at creation I see scientific patterns at work. I could say that I see god in creation, but that would be as shallow as saying I see the great pink unicorn in all of creation because *there is no proof*.

And who says that our universe is orderly by any means? A 'lawgiver' is in no way necessary for our universe to function as is.
Click to expand...

Ceridwin018, A law breaking society does seem to be in a chaotic state of being! How true, that it seems that no lawgiver is presant. But the laws of physics are not being broken. we attempt to, but, they are not ever broken, only tested to the dettriment to the attempter.
Your scientific patterns are of God. The Big Bang would defy all laws and be total chaos, elements going in all directions at the same moment, rather than creating something it would be destroying (nothing). I would suggest amidst the chaos a lawgiver saying "SEDER" (meaning order of service) and there was order!

The age old question which came first? The Yucca plant relys on a moth for pollination, how many millions of years do you think it will take for evolution to evolve a moth that will enable the Yucca to survive?
I for one, can't imagine the Big Bang as is taught in schools.
Apparently your pink unicorn is a traggic example of not enough time to insure the survival of a species.
 
Ceridwen018

Ceridwen018

Well-Known Member
Ronald,

Ceridwin018, A law breaking society does seem to be in a chaotic state of being! How true, that it seems that no lawgiver is presant. But the laws of physics are not being broken. we attempt to, but, they are not ever broken, only tested to the dettriment to the attempter.
Click to expand...

What I meant was that our universe is in no way perfect. There are some aspects of it which seem like if things had been only slightly different, our entire universe would be affected. It really makes your teeth grind when you analyze just how small a window we had to pass through to come into existence. Our universe really doesn't show evidence of 'intelligent design' as Christians like to argue. Retarded design, maybe, but certainly not intelligent.

More on this later, I've got to scamper off for now!
 
R

Ronald

Well-Known Member
Fast forward 5-10 years, Ceridwin is older and possibly wiser, counting the tiny fingers of her new daughter, thinking of the silly words of retarded design.
My prayer is, you have the opportunity for this to occur.
I have made my point.
I believe!
 
Mr Spinkles

Mr Spinkles

Mr
Perhaps Ceridwen should have used the word "imperfect" design. The word "retarded" has a negative connotation which I do not think she meant to imply, where as the word "imperfect" does not necessarily mean "bad".
 
Ceridwen018

Ceridwen018

Well-Known Member
Agreed Mr. Spinkles, gracias.

Ronald,

The Big Bang would defy all laws and be total chaos, elements going in all directions at the same moment, rather than creating something it would be destroying (nothing). I would suggest amidst the chaos a lawgiver saying "SEDER" (meaning order of service) and there was order!
Click to expand...

It seems to me that you do not fully understand the theory of the Big Bang.

The age old question which came first? The Yucca plant relys on a moth for pollination, how many millions of years do you think it will take for evolution to evolve a moth that will enable the Yucca to survive?
I for one, can't imagine the Big Bang as is taught in schools.
Click to expand...

Why did something have to come first? Why couldn't it have just always been? You believe that god has just always 'been', its the same exact concept.
 
R

Ronald

Well-Known Member
Yes, you are right I do not understand the Big Bang! I do, however understand youthful rebellion, even if it is, only a dim memory!

I'm out of here, Preparation Day! Candle Lighting this evening.

Shabbat Shalom/Sabbath Peace
 
Z

Zeke316

Member
Hey There;
I am a Christian who believes God DOES NOT love everybody. I believe we are all sinners and are destined to be separated from God, in a place called Hell, for all eternity. ... If God loved everybody, there would be NO Hell. God being Just, has to punish sin, and this is where the great message of Christ comes in. By His grace, Jesus lived a perfect life, suffered and paid for the sins of those that believe.
He did NOT pay for the sins of those who DO NOT believe. If that were so, God would not be Just. We are saved by His Mercy, not His Justice. His Justice was poured out on Jesus, Who died for me. I deserve Hell but by His grace, I am not going there. Sin has to be paid for, by myself or His substitute, Jesus Christ. ..Psalm 5:5 states "...God hates all workers of iniquity".
 
Mr Spinkles

Mr Spinkles

Mr
Zeke-- thank you for your post! To me, what you are saying makes a lot more sense than the Christians who say God loves everyone (yet Hell and suffering exist). It does raise the question of whether or not a creator who does not love His own creation can be all good...but still, good points you have there. As you have pointed out, all-loving and all-just are incompatable concepts.
 
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