Are atheists arrogant? immoral? angry?

[Kenny]

I assume that you teach your parishioners such bigotry. It's one of the worst aspects of Christianity. It needs to perpetuate itself on the backs of atheists (atheophobia) and LGBTQ+ (homophobia), and it needs to get to children before they can think critically, which is why so many Christians want state-led prayer and creationism back in public schools and why so many are anti-education. It also seems to like to steal rights and control women (misogyny).

What bigotry, that Stalin and Mao killed innocent people and were atheists?

Is that different from me teaching that when Religious Christians “In the name of the Lord” kill unbelievers, or demean them that they are dead wrong? (which I do)

And that we should pray for our enemies and share the love of God with your neighbor no matter what they are doing… makes me a bigot?

Go figure.

 

[osgart]

All these labels like atheist and theist don't really tell you much about a person. Anyone can attach a label to themselves. Anyone can call themselves Christian or atheist and it would be their very own version of it and no one else's.

Atheist is very non descriptive. Theism is wishful thinking. Neither tells you about a person's heart or how they are going to treat you.

 

[Kenny]

I assume that you teach your parishioners such bigotry. It's one of the worst aspects of Christianity. It needs to perpetuate itself on the backs of atheists (atheophobia) and LGBTQ+ (homophobia), and it needs to get to children before they can think critically, which is why so many Christians want state-led prayer and creationism back in public schools and why so many are anti-education. It also seems to like to steal rights and control women (misogyny).

What bigotry, that Stalin and Mao killed innocent people and were atheists?

Is that different from me teaching that when Religious Christians “In the name of the Lord” kill unbelievers, or demean people that they are dead wrong? (which I do)

And that we should pray for our enemies and share the love of God with your neighbor no matter what they are doing… makes me a bigot?

Go figure. Your statements sounds quite hateful or even religiophoic IMV

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

What bigotry, that Stalin and Mao killed innocent people and were atheists?

The bigotry is that "the driving factor" behind those killings was that they were atheists. Their atheism did not make them murderers as you imply. It was their psychopathy. They were psychopaths.

On the other hand, your choice to make that association seem significant DOES come from your brand of theism.

And I don't hate the religious. My strongest feeling, which is directed at only a minority, is contempt, and that contempt is well earned. Here's one now, white evangelical Ralph Reed, planning to invest $60 million dollars in Trump's candidacy. I don't hate this person, but I do resent what he's doing. He doesn't care if Trump dismantles democracy or that he's headed to prison or that he's demented as long as he promotes church concerns. Of the two candidates, only Biden can be called a good man and a Christian, yet this person will support the monster. What respect should I have for him or his form of religion?

https://www.politico.com/news/2024/03/11/ralph-reed-army-spending-trump-00146170

 

[F1fan]

Yes… we have gone over this before and I wonder when you are going to get over a narrative that justifies the atrocities of these atheists who wanted religion eliminated.

Could it be similar to why Christians committed the Holocaust? But aren’t Christians supposed to be moral?

 

[Revoltingest]

Let's not forget that Hitler was a Christian.
Putin is a Christian who is fighting western
decadence, & has the approval of the church.
Israel's genocide is supported by most Jews
& Christians. Muslim theocracies are
deadly even for other Muslims.

 

[F1fan]

What bigotry, that Stalin and Mao killed innocent people and were atheists?

Stalin had studied to be a priest. But you make it sound as if atheists have a bigger body count than theists that somehow theists are better people? Shouldn't the body count for theists be zero?

It's not a fair or sound type of argument. The wars and killings by theists happened before the 20th century when the popluations were small and technology crude. Christians murdered some 30,000 people for withcraft in the 17th century but if adjusted for population that would be nearly half a million today. Christians committed the Holocaust, and what is your explanattion for thet? Ooops? If Christians are going to claim some moral superiority then they are held to a higher standard. And they have failed through history.

If Stalin had been Eastern Orthodox and killed the same number of people, would you just overlook it as you do the Holocaust?

Is that different from me teaching that when Religious Christians “In the name of the Lord” kill unbelievers, or demean them that they are dead wrong? (which I do)

Thanks to secular law Christians, and Muslims can't murder people for nonbelief.

And that we should pray for our enemies and share the love of God with your neighbor no matter what they are doing… makes me a bigot?

It's not your prejudice against atheists?

 

[shunyadragon]

Without expanding the scope to the reverse scenario, it seemed to me that you went from "You are also ignoring the slaughter of non-believers, minorities and "Conversion by the Sword" as the Christian Colonial Manifest Destiny moved over the Americas and Africa" to "many Christians hate atheists." Again - I don't argue the violent history of Christianity as political movement, but I don't apply that across the board to all Christians, or even "many" Christians.

Well, yes I will apply it to many Christians, based on the facts of history and today. No I do not consider it "all Christians

The political/religious leaders of movements, the sects and cults should be called out directly, and I do agree with your position on Christian nationalism and Qanon in particular.

I do call them out directly, because they are part of the issue at hand of Christian attitudes toward atheists and the LGBTQ community. Christian Nationalism and Qanon are very popular among conservative Republicans, Qanon is not a minor cult. Support for Christian Nationalism, Qanon and Trump go hand in hand, and will reelect Donald Trump

I agree with your list of "nationalist, racial, ethnic, religious and tribal Manifest Destiny" but would add to recent history the communist totalitarian regimes across Europe and Asia which spanned rather than fit exactly into those categories individually.

I do not consider atheism is the issue in history of these totalitarian regimes. They were not even truly Communist, and should not be associated with atheists today. The issue is the extreme totalitarian Nationalist Manifest Destiny which occurs commonly in history irregardless of the involvement of religious belief, When the Russian Soviet Socialist Republics collapsed the people threw away the Hammer and Sickle and put back on the cross, everything else remained the same.

 

[shunyadragon]

Why pretend? It is!

No it is not. The Russians simply through away the Hammer and Sickle and put on the cross when the Soviets collapsed and Putin continued his totalitarian ruthless rule and invaded Ukraine justified by Czarist Russian Orthodox Manifest Destiny to rule Eastern Europe and Russian Asia,

Not many Russians were never truly atheists. The pogroms against the Jews, atheists by the way at times in the past, and homosexuals have always been based on the beliefs of the Orthodox Church,

 

[Augustus]

Christians committed the Holocaust

As did deists, atheists, agnostics, pagans and occultists, etc.

It is generally accepted by historians of all backgrounds that, by the time of the holocaust, leading Nazis such as Hitler, Himmler, Heydrich, Bormann, Goebbels, Rosenberg, etc. were not Christians and many of them openly despised Christianity.

 

[anna.]

Well, yes I will apply it to many Christians, based on the facts of history and today. No I do not consider it "all Christians

I don't think you can lump in history with today without marking the distinctions of each. Beyond that thought, I'm not going to argue this further with you, I don't we'll get anywhere.

I do not consider atheism is the issue in history of these totalitarian regimes. They were not even truly Communist, and should not be associated with atheists today. The issue is the extreme totalitarian Nationalist Manifest Destiny which occurs commonly in history irregardless of the involvement of religious belief, When the Russian Soviet Socialist Republics collapsed the people threw away the Hammer and Sickle and put back on the cross, everything else remained the same.

I wasn't associating communist totalitarianism with atheism, and I'm not making that argument. I was actually agreeing with you. Communism tried to crush religion in Europe and Asia because religion posed a threat to their total control of all aspects of human existence. It wasn't about belief/nonbelief it was about control/resistance and state/individual.

 

[PureX]

Together, those two describe the agnostic atheist, who neither accepts nor denies the proposition that gods exist.

That’s irrelevant to the meaning of the terms. Because the terms are defined by their relationship to the proposition, not by their relationship to any individual person. I don’t know why you cannot understand this.

a) atheist (can be gnostic or agnostic)

Again, this is irrelevant to the response the terms represent. Atheism is a specific logical response to the theist proposition. NOT any person’s position or opinion. So calling oneself an atheist means one is aligned with that logical response position.

b) agnostic (can be theist or atheist)

Again, gnosticism is a different issue and is not directly relevant to non-theism.

c) gnostic atheist

The name for an indifferent person is apatheist, which, along with atheist, agnostic, humanist, and antitheist,

Apathy is an emotion, whereas indifference is an intellectual choice. Which is why ”apathiest” is silly and misleading term. Because, once again, it’s based on a person and not on a logical intellectual response to the theist proposition.

also describes me.

You are not what defines any of these terms. Neither is anyone else. The terms are defined by their logical response to the theist proposition.

I don't care if something called a god can be said to exist. If it exists I'll likely never know it, and if it exists and I will know that, I can wait to find out. In the meantime, the subject is irrelevant.

I don’t care what you don’t care about. Why would I? And why should I allow your personal cares and opinions about the theist proposition define the terms for me, for anyone, or for any discussion?

Rather than merely repeating already refuted claims, how about addressing that refutation?

I have been addressing it, repeatedly, but for some reason you just can’t seem to grasp that you are not what defines the terms. That the theist proposition and the various logical responses define the terms.

 

[RestlessSoul]

Let's not forget that Hitler was a Christian.
Putin is a Christian who is fighting western
decadence, & has the approval of the church.
Israel's genocide is supported by most Jews
& Christians. Muslim theocracies are
deadly even for other Muslims.

What on earth makes you think “Israel’s genocide is supported by most Jews and Christians?” Anecdotal evidence?

That’s your Amerocentric bias fooling you again. You should get out more.

 

[Kenny]

The bigotry is that "the driving factor" behind those killings was that they were atheists. Their atheism did not make them murderers as you imply. It was their psychopathy. They were psychopaths.

On the other hand, your choice to make that association seem significant DOES come from your brand of theism.

And I don't hate the religious. My strongest feeling, which is directed at only a minority, is contempt, and that contempt is well earned. Here's one now, white evangelical Ralph Reed, planning to invest $60 million dollars in Trump's candidacy. I don't hate this person, but I do resent what he's doing. He doesn't care if Trump dismantles democracy or that he's headed to prison or that he's demented as long as he promotes church concerns. Of the two candidates, only Biden can be called a good man and a Christian, yet this person will support the monster. What respect should I have for him or his form of religion?

https://www.politico.com/news/2024/03/11/ralph-reed-army-spending-trump-00146170

Am my problem isn’t with atheist but the minority (Stalin and Mao) who killed because of their anti-religious stance in the context of the poster who associated “Christians” as horrible people as if no one has skeletons in their own closet.

And your association of my statement with your deduction leads one to believe there is a religophobic root.

And now you want to bring in the Trump syndrome?

I preach Jesus, crucified for all and who loved all. I don’t promote myself as more righteous than anyone since I too needed Jesus. No bigotry, no hatred.

I would preach that he loves you too in context of my signature.

 

[Kenny]

Could it be similar to why Christians committed the Holocaust? But aren’t Christians supposed to be moral?

Oh, yes, you are absolutely right. There are definitely those who did that in the name of Christianity. I would assume that Jesus would probably see them as goats… but that’s His department and not mine.

 

[Kenny]

Stalin had studied to be a priest. But you make it sound as if atheists have a bigger body count than theists that somehow theists are better people?

Not at all. Didn’t say that or even intimate that. And, no, theists or Christians are no “better people”. The premise of christianity is that there is no one righteous, no not one.

 

[Augustus]

. It wasn't about belief/nonbelief it was about control/resistance and state/individual.

It sort of was about unbelief though.

A bit like belief in god, simply believing in god doesn’t make folk violent or murderous, but as part of a broader set of beliefs then it can play a part.

Being a theist doesn’t make you a jihadi, but belief in god is not simply incidental to jihadism.

Atheism played a similar role in Communist ideology to theism in jihadism, as theism, as a form of false consciousness, was incompatible with utopian Communism.

Callousness towards human life was explicitly justified by the fact that an idea of the sanctity of human life was just a religious myth. Humans are just matter, so the ends justified the means.

This was all explicitly acknowledged by Lenin, Trotsky, et al.

 

[shunyadragon]

I don't think you can lump in history with today without marking the distinctions of each. Beyond that thought, I'm not going to argue this further with you, I don't we'll get anywhere.

I do not try to lump history I document history with references. Careful marking distinctions based on an agenda.

I wasn't associating communist totalitarianism with atheism, and I'm not making that argument. I was actually agreeing with you. Communism tried to crush religion in Europe and Asia because religion posed a threat to their total control of all aspects of human existence. It wasn't about belief/nonbelief it was about control/resistance and state/individual.

The problems reflected in others post in this thread and other fundamentalist Christians such as Mke Johnson and Marjorie Moore representing them popularly elected is yes they make the association and worse associating atheism with science, immorality and the liberal side of our society. This is why atheists are among the most dislike minorities in the USA.

 

[shunyadragon]

It sort of was about unbelief though.

No, views such as this is about making negative stereotypes of atheists

A bit like belief in god, simply believing in god doesn’t make folk violent or murderous, but as part of a broader set of beliefs then it can play a part.

Being a theist doesn’t make you a jihadi, but belief in god is not simply incidental to jihadism.

Atheism played a similar role in Communist ideology to theism in jihadism, as theism, as a form of false consciousness, was incompatible with utopian Communism.

Callousness towards human life was explicitly justified by the fact that an idea of the sanctity of human life was just a religious myth. Humans are just matter, so the ends justified the means.

This was all explicitly acknowledged by Lenin, Trotsky, et al.

It still remains stereotyping atheists, while neglecting the likes of Martin Luther's blueprint for dealing with the Jews Hitler followed, and the history of Christianity with such callous toward human life auchas policies of "Conversion by the Sword."

The bold above still represents a selective consideration of history. No one should generalize about other beliefs such as Theism or atheism, The history of violent disregard for life is a part of the history of all the ancient tribal Abrahamic religions, atheism, and humanity in general. The problem is far greater than the superficial dismissal as being "simply incidental" in the history of Christianity.

 

[shunyadragon]

What bigotry, that Stalin and Mao killed innocent people and were atheists?

The selective bigotry of many Christians not acknowledging the history of extreme violence. persecution, pogroms and slaughter of Jews, Lhomosexuals and atheists. You fail to acknowledge such things as the writing of Martin Luther and "Conversion by the sword" that reflect the total disregard for human life.

Your extreme generalization of the 'evils' of atheism does not acknowledge the extreme disregard for life at times in the history of Christianity

Is that different from me teaching that when Religious Christians “In the name of the Lord” kill unbelievers, or demean them that they are dead wrong? (which I do)

You may, but the reality is atheists are no less 'evil; than many Christians in history.You coose to selectively demonize atheism and selectively negate the role of Christianity in the persecution, pogroms, and violence against Jews, homosexulas and other minorities in history and today, The growing violence of anti-semitism and popularity of Qanon in the USA which you selectively negate.

Your idealistic view of what Christians should be nisce loving believers is naive and unrealistic based on your agenda neglecting the REAL history of Christianity and generalizing to condemn not love atheists

And that we should pray for our enemies and share the love of God with your neighbor no matter what they are doing… makes me a bigot?

Go figure.

Yeah go figure, in "Conversion by the Sword" They prayed for their souls as heads rolled.

Yes this makes you a bigot beyond belief.