There is no evidence for God, so why do you believe?

[Ostronomos]

I am claiming that it is a logical error to claim that a living cell, for example, is too complex to exist undesigned and uncreated by an intelligence, and then proposing the most complex entity imaginable - a deity that knows everything including how to create the exceedingly complex cell - as existing undesigned and uncreated. If you'd like to explore this concept here - maybe you disagree, maybe you don't understand the argument - you'll need to address the argument to explain why you think it's wrong if you do, not merely dismiss or ignore it.

I've explained this countless times to you and you simply ignore it. The M=R proposition clearly states that if everything exists then mind must also exist. And if we consider this straightforward fact then it becomes clear that Mind is the highest reality.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I've explained this countless times to you and you simply ignore it. The M=R proposition clearly states that if everything exists then mind must also exist. And if we consider this straightforward fact then it becomes clear that Mind is the highest reality.

What makes you think that "everything exists"? But that is good news for me. That means that the Flying Spaghetti Monster exists and that I am going to Pastafarian heaven when I die.

You need to proper define your terms. And your argument appears to be based upon a false premise. Just in case you do not know, to be valid a premise has to be accepted by everyone. Your premise appears to be something that you just made up. You need to justify it. Until you do your argument is refuted by not accepting your premise.

 

[Ostronomos]

What makes you think that "everything exists"? But that is good news for me. That means that the Flying Spaghetti Monster exists and that I am going to Pastafarian heaven when I die.

Reality is the set of all things that exist. This implies that things that do not exist are only a logical negation away from existing. And if we can agree on this then we will see that neurons and mental images exist as a type of content in reality. Just as language becomes content of the mind, reality is a language.

You need to proper define your terms. And your argument appears to be based upon a false premise. Just in case you do not know, to be valid a premise has to be accepted by everyone. Your premise appears to be something that you just made up. You need to justify it. Until you do your argument is refuted by not accepting your premise.

I hope that the above explanation would suffice.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Reality is the set of all things that exist. This implies that things that do not exist are only a logical negation away from existing. And if we can agree on this then we will see that neurons and mental images exist as a type of content in reality. Just as language becomes content of the mind, reality is a language.

Then you just admitted that not "everything" exists. And no, there is no such implication. Once again you make an unjustified jump. Your logic is terribly flawed.

I hope that the above explanation would suffice.

Nope, it only had more logical errors in it.

Perhaps you should not be so quick to assume that others agree with your basic premises. And you also need a bit more than just word salad when you debate.

 

[ppp]

...are only a logical negation away from existing

Let's see you logically negate a giant space whale into existing in my front yard.

 

[YoursTrue]

Yes, from a natural disaster. I'm talking about a God who ordered the murder of 6 cities of women, babies, elderly, children, men, women, pets, because they might teach the Israelites their evil religion.
First, why are the Israelites so easily swayed when Yahweh has been showing up in person?
Yahweh could show up in person to those cities as well and the babies could have a chance to grow up and be in the correct religion.

But, it was written by men who hated those cities, that is why it says that, otherwise it makes no sense and is immoral.




Right but what is the point?




Adam and Eve is a 100% mythic tale. Most modern Christians do not take Genesis literal.

It's taught this way in Biblical historical classes, because it's true.

John Collins, Introduction to the Hebrew Bible 3rd ed.
“Biblical creation stories draw motifs from Mesopotamia, Much of the language and imagery of the Bible was culture specific and deeply embedded in the traditions of the Near East.
2nd ed. The Old Testament, Davies and Rogerson
“We know from the history of the composition of Gilamesh that ancient writers did adapt and re-use older stories……
It is safer to content ourselves with comparing the motifs and themes of Genesis with those of other ancient Near East texts.
In this way we acknowledge our belief that the biblical writers adapted existing stories, while we confess our ignorance about the form and content of the actual stories that the Biblical writers used.”
The Old Testament, A Historical and Literary Introduction to the Hebrew Scriptures, M. Coogan
“Genesis employs and alludes to mythical concepts and phrasing, but at the same time it also adapts transforms and rejected them”
God in Translation, Smith
“…the Bibles authors fashioned whatever they may have inherited of the Mesopotamian literary tradition on their own terms”
THE OT Text and Content, Matthews, Moyer
“….a great deal of material contained in the primeval epics in Genesis is borrowed and adapted from the ancient cultures of that region.”

The Formation of Genesis 1-11, Carr
“The previous discussion has made clear how this story in Genesis represents a complex juxtaposition of multiple traditions often found separately in the Mesopotamian literary world….”
The Priestly Vision of Genesis, Smith
“….storm God and cosmic enemies passed into Israelite tradition. The biblical God is not only generally similar to Baal as a storm god, but God inherited the names of Baal’s cosmic enemies, with names such as Leviathan, Sea, Death and Tanninim.”

I realize you're talking about what you consider the injustice of God when so many were drowned. Many people who don't believe in God are recognizing things are not improving in the world. Murders by people, floods, earthquakes...abortions...done by people or natural occurrences. so do you blame evolution or men for that? I can't convince you that God is God. And worthy of respect. He has helped me and others I know of. Men are men and not God.

 

[Link]

What I have been questioning is the existence of an evil being callled Satan. I do not question the existence of Angels.
Baha'u'llah also puts belief in God's Angels as very important, as can be seen in the following passages. The passage at the bottom (The Kitáb-i-Íqán, pp. 78-80) explains what is meant by Angels.

“Let not your hearts be perturbed, O people, when the glory of My Presence is withdrawn, and the ocean of My utterance is stilled. In My presence amongst you there is a wisdom, and in My absence there is yet another, inscrutable to all but God, the Incomparable, the All-Knowing. Verily, We behold you from Our realm of glory, and shall aid whosoever will arise for the triumph of Our Cause with the hosts of the Concourse on high and a company of Our favored angels.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 139

“Whatsoever people is graciously favoured therewith by God, its name shall surely be magnified and extolled by the Concourse from on high, by the company of angels, and the denizens of the Abhá Kingdom. And whatsoever people turneth its heart away from this Divine Love—the revelation of the Merciful—shall err grievously, shall fall into despair, and be utterly destroyed. That people shall be denied all refuge, shall become even as the vilest creatures of the earth, victims of degradation and shame.”
Selections From the Writings of ‘Abdu’l-Bahá, pp. 27-28

“Know ye that the world and its vanities and its embellishments shall pass away. Nothing will endure except God’s Kingdom which pertaineth to none but Him, the Sovereign Lord of all, the Help in Peril, the All-Glorious, the Almighty. The days of your life shall roll away, and all the things with which ye are occupied and of which ye boast yourselves shall perish, and ye shall, most certainly, be summoned by a company of His angels to appear at the spot where the limbs of the entire creation shall be made to tremble, and the flesh of every oppressor to creep. Ye shall be asked of the things your hands have wrought in this, your vain life, and shall be repaid for your doings. This is the day that shall inevitably come upon you, the hour that none can put back. To this the Tongue of Him that speaketh the truth and is the Knower of all things hath testified.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 125

“Certain ones among you have said: “He it is Who hath laid claim to be God.” By God! This is a gross calumny. I am but a servant of God Who hath believed in Him and in His signs, and in His Prophets and in His angels. My tongue, and My heart, and My inner and My outer being testify that there is no God but Him, that all others have been created by His behest, and been fashioned through the operation of His Will. There is none other God but Him, the Creator, the Raiser from the dead, the Quickener, the Slayer. I am He that telleth abroad the favors with which God hath, through His bounty, favored Me. If this be My transgression, then I am truly the first of the transgressors. I and My kindred are at your mercy. Do ye as ye please, and be not of them that hesitate, that I might return to God My Lord, and reach the place where I can no longer behold your faces. This, indeed, is My dearest wish, My most ardent desire. Of My state God is, verily, sufficiently informed, observant.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 228

“They that have forsaken their country for the purpose of teaching Our Cause—these shall the Faithful Spirit strengthen through its power. A company of Our chosen angels shall go forth with them, as bidden by Him Who is the Almighty, the All-Wise. How great the blessedness that awaiteth him that hath attained the honor of serving the Almighty! By My life! No act, however great, can compare with it, except such deeds as have been ordained by God, the All-Powerful, the Most Mighty. Such a service is, indeed, the prince of all goodly deeds, and the ornament of every goodly act. Thus hath it been ordained by Him Who is the Sovereign Revealer, the Ancient of Days.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 334

“Every time My name “the All-Merciful” was told that one of My lovers had breathed a word that runneth counter to My wish, it repaired, grief-stricken and disconsolate to its abode; and whenever My name “the Concealer” discovered that one of My followers had inflicted any shame or humiliation on his neighbor, it, likewise, turned back chagrined and sorrowful to its retreats of glory, and there wept and mourned with a sore lamentation. And whenever My name “the Ever-Forgiving” perceived that any one of My friends had committed any transgression, it cried out in its great distress, and, overcome with anguish, fell upon the dust, and was borne away by a company of the invisible angels to its habitation in the realms above.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 308-309

“Intone, O My servant, the verses of God that have been received by thee, as intoned by them who have drawn nigh unto Him, that the sweetness of thy melody may kindle thine own soul, and attract the hearts of all men. Whoso reciteth, in the privacy of his chamber, the verses revealed by God, the scattering angels of the Almighty shall scatter abroad the fragrance of the words uttered by his mouth, and shall cause the heart of every righteous man to throb. Though he may, at first, remain unaware of its effect, yet the virtue of the grace vouchsafed unto him must needs sooner or later exercise its influence upon his soul. Thus have the mysteries of the Revelation of God been decreed by virtue of the Will of Him Who is the Source of power and wisdom.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 295

“This is the Day whereon the All-Merciful hath come down in the clouds of knowledge, clothed with manifest sovereignty. He well knoweth the actions of men. He it is Whose glory none can mistake, could ye but comprehend it. The heaven of every religion hath been rent, and the earth of human understanding been cleft asunder, and the angels of God are seen descending.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 45

“Call out to Zion, O Carmel, and announce the joyful tidings: He that was hidden from mortal eyes is come! His all-conquering sovereignty is manifest; His all-encompassing splendor is revealed. Beware lest thou hesitate or halt. Hasten forth and circumambulate the City of God that hath descended from heaven, the celestial Kaaba round which have circled in adoration the favored of God, the pure in heart, and the company of the most exalted angels. Oh, how I long to announce unto every spot on the surface of the earth, and to carry to each one of its cities, the glad-tidings of this Revelation—a Revelation to which the heart of Sinai hath been attracted, and in whose name the Burning Bush is calling: ‘Unto God, the Lord of Lords, belong the kingdoms of earth and heaven.’ Verily this is the Day in which both land and sea rejoice at this announcement, the Day for which have been laid up those things which God, through a bounty beyond the ken of mortal mind or heart, hath destined for revelation. Ere long will God sail His Ark upon thee, and will manifest the people of Bahá who have been mentioned in the Book of Names.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 16

“The earth hath been shaken, and the mountains have passed away, and the angels have appeared, rank on rank, before Us. Most of the people are bewildered in their drunkenness and wear on their faces the evidences of anger. Thus have We gathered together the workers of iniquity. We see them rushing on towards their idol. Say: None shall be secure this Day from the decree of God. This indeed is a grievous Day. We point out to them those that led them astray. They see them, and yet recognize them not. Their eyes are drunken; they are indeed a blind people. Their proofs are the calumnies they uttered; condemned are their calumnies by God, the Help in Peril, the Self-Subsisting. The Evil One hath stirred up mischief in their hearts, and they are afflicted with a torment that none can avert. They hasten to the wicked, bearing the register of the workers of iniquity. Such are their doings.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 41

“And now, concerning His words: “And He shall send His angels….” By “angels” is meant those who, reinforced by the power of the spirit, have consumed, with the fire of the love of God, all human traits and limitations, and have clothed themselves with the attributes of the most exalted Beings and of the Cherubim. That holy man, Ṣádiq, 37 in his eulogy of the Cherubim, saith: “There stand a company of our fellow-Shí’ihs behind the Throne.” Divers and manifold are the interpretations of the words “behind the Throne.” In one sense, they indicate that no true Shí’ihs exist. Even as he hath said in another passage: “A true believer is likened unto the philosopher’s stone.” Addressing subsequently his listener, he saith: “Hast thou ever seen the philosopher’s stone?” Reflect, how this symbolic language, more eloquent than any speech, however direct, testifieth to the non-existence of a true believer. Such is the testimony of Ṣádiq. And now consider, how unfair and numerous are those who, although they themselves have failed to inhale the fragrance of belief, have condemned as infidels those by whose word belief itself is recognized and established.

And now, inasmuch as these holy beings have sanctified themselves from every human limitation, have become endowed with the attributes of the spiritual, and have been adorned with the noble traits of the blessed, they therefore have been designated as “angels.” Such is the meaning of these verses, every word of which hath been expounded by the aid of the most lucid texts, the most convincing arguments, and the best established evidences.”The Kitáb-i-Íqán, pp. 78-80

The ending is a bit confusing. Are Angels humans or something else?

 

[YoursTrue]

Nah. That's an equivocation fallacy.

No, it actually makes sense to me. I might not even believe the same as unfettered but I know what I like and what's good for me. So when the Bible says some things I don't understand, I wait for God to explain it and that will be in the future.

 

[Trailblazer]

The ending is a bit confusing. Are Angels humans or something else?

Angels are humans, holy beings who have sanctified themselves from every human limitation, and have become endowed with the attributes of the spiritual.

 

[YoursTrue]

The soul is a concept taken by Christianity from Hellenism. Paul did this.

The Resurrection in its Cultural Context [feat. Dr. Bart Ehrman]


5:00 No soul in Judaism. 1st Cor, very misunderstood. Paul is writing to a group of Christians who did not believe in a physical resurrection. A physical resurrection is a Jewish idea (from 2nd Temple Persian myth). In traditional Jewish thinking there isn’t a separation between body and soul. It’s all one thing. They did not have the idea that the soul would be rewarded because the body/soul was the same.


6:25 A Soul is Pagan not Jewish Pauls opponents in Corinth who were Christians were raised in PAGAN circles where there was separation of body and soul and were saying there was no physical resurrection of the body, just a soul. Paul was saying there must be a physical resurrection because Jesus was raised from the dead. So Paul argues there are different types of bodies to resolve this conflict. Paul argues Jesus rose in a spiritual body that looked like a human body but was an immortal body.





Clear proof that a soul living into afterlife IS PAGAN, or Hellenistic.






"

only in Hellenistic times (after c. 330 BCE) did Jews begin to adopt the Greek idea that it would be a place of punishment for misdeeds, and that the righteous would enjoy an afterlife in heaven.[8]"

wLee, Sang Meyng


Sang Meyng Lee, Born 1963; 2005-2008 Adjunct Professor at San Francisco Theological Seminary, P



During the period of the Second Temple (c.515 BC – 70 AD), the Hebrew people lived under the rule of first the Persian Achaemenid Empire, then the Greek kingdoms of the Diadochi, and finally the Roman Empire.[47] Their culture was profoundly influenced by those of the peoples who ruled them.[47] Consequently, their views on existence after death were profoundly shaped by the ideas of the Persians, Greeks, and Romans.[48][49] The idea of the immortality of the soul is derived from Greek philosophy[49] and the idea of the resurrection of the dead is derived from Persian cosmology.[49] By the early first century AD, these two seemingly incompatible ideas were often conflated by Hebrew thinkers.[49] The Hebrews also inherited from the Persians, Greeks, and Romans the idea that the human soul originates in the divine realm and seeks to return there.[47]


..............The idea that a human soul belongs in Heaven and that Earth is merely a temporary abode in which the soul is tested to prove its worthiness became increasingly popular during the Hellenistic period (323 – 31 BC).[40] Gradually, some Hebrews began to adopt the idea of Heaven as the eternal home of the righteous dead............................

(Sanders)
Wright , Hundley


If you have a different idea of the soul and where it came from and how you know, then source it etc....

Right now I am not going to argue with you about everything. If you pray, I suggest you do.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Right now I am not going to argue with you about everything. If you pray, I suggest you do.

Why insult someone else?

 

[Truthseeker]

Putting it all together, we see Iblis was ordered to prostrated to Adam along with all Angels.

I'm not the expert that @Trailblazer expects, but Iblis can be symbolically interpreted to be that lower material part of man that doesn't recognize Adam as a Prophet of God, or alternatively doesn't recognize that man has a higher spiritual nature. There are plenty of such people today where their lower material nature predominates and don't recognize either one. The angels are those that could be interpreted as recognizing the divine in Adam in that particular context. I'm not sure myself if Baha'u'llah actually affirms angels as actual celestial beings in some contexts. Angels from my belief which seems to be different from @Trailblazer could possibly be interpreted as always human beings whose higher spiritual nature always predominates. Except there is this interesting quote:

Whoso reciteth, in the privacy of his chamber, the verses revealed by God, the scattering angels of the Almighty shall scatter abroad the fragrance of the words uttered by his mouth, and shall cause the heart of every righteous man to throb.
(Baha'u'llah, Gleanings from the Writings of Baha'u'llah, p. 295)

But Abdu'l-Baha who is the interpreter of Baha'u'llah's Writings says this:

The Holy Spirit will strengthen them and the hosts of the Supreme Concourse will render them victorious and the angels of Abha will come in succession. By angels is meant the divine confirmations and heavenly powers. Angels are also those holy souls who have severed attachment to the earthly world, who are free from the fetters of self and passion and who have attached their hearts to the divine realm and the merciful kingdom.
(Abdu'l-Baha, Baha'i World Faith - Abdu'l-Baha Section, p. 409)

What are "the divine confirmations and heavenly powers"? That is the question.

 

[Truthseeker]

Angels are humans, holy beings who have sanctified themselves from every human limitation, and have become endowed with the attributes of the spiritual.

Oh, okay, except that it seems that angels in other contexts have another meaning. I'm not sure what. I quoted above:

Whoso reciteth, in the privacy of his chamber, the verses revealed by God, the scattering angels of the Almighty shall scatter abroad the fragrance of the words uttered by his mouth, and shall cause the heart of every righteous man to throb.
(Baha'u'llah, Gleanings from the Writings of Baha'u'llah, p. 295)

But Abdu'l-Baha who is the interpreter of Baha'u'llah's Writings says this:

The Holy Spirit will strengthen them and the hosts of the Supreme Concourse will render them victorious and the angels of Abha will come in succession. By angels is meant the divine confirmations and heavenly powers. Angels are also those holy souls who have severed attachment to the earthly world, who are free from the fetters of self and passion and who have attached their hearts to the divine realm and the merciful kingdom.
(Abdu'l-Baha, Baha'i World Faith - Abdu'l-Baha Section, p. 409)

What are "the divine confirmations and heavenly powers"? That is the question.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

Jesus never claimed to be a king…

Sure he did…when he said, “My kingdom is no part of this world.”

Why do you think Pilate had it written on the stauros, “Here is the King of the Jews”?

there is no more reason for Jesus to come back to this world again. That is why Jesus said “I am no more in the world.”

You’re exactly right! But that doesn’t negate him from being the Heavenly King of God’s Kingdom.

These Isaiah 9:6-7 prophecies cannot refer to Jesus because Jesus disclaimed being the Mighty God when He called Himself “the Son of God” (John 5:18-47) and in those verses Jesus repudiates the charge that He claimed equality with God.

Yes, I agree, He never claimed to be his Father, the Almighty God. But Jesus was a mighty god, ie., a powerful one. The Apostle John called Jesus that: “…the Word was with God, and the Word was a god.”
Or, as the 2001 Translation calls him @ John 1:1, “the Word was a powerful one.”

Jesus disclaimed being the everlasting Father when He said, “my Father is greater than I” (John 14:28)

“Father” means “life-giver”, and as the one who raises people up in the last day, ie., the Resurrection, (John 6:40), giving them life, he will in effect be a father to them. And it will be “everlasting”, because then people will be given the opportunity for everlasting life.

Jesus disclaimed being the Prince of Peace when He said, “I came not to send peace, but a sword” (Matthew 10:34).

Come on…. Jesus’ followers are to love, not fight.
Jesus said the world would hate his followers…they would be the ones with the “swords,” using them against Christ’s followers.

Jesus disclaimed bearing the government upon His shoulder when He said to “rend onto Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's” (Mark 12:17, Matthew 22:21).

Jesus was only saying to obey the secular authorities, when it doesn’t interfere with obeying God.

That has no bearing at all on Jesus being the King of God’s government!

Jesus disclaimed that He would establish a kingdom where he would rule with judgment and justice forever when He said, “My kingdom is not of this world” (John 18:36).

Again, it’s a Heavenly government, which will rule the Universe. (That would include earth, wherein the “meek” & “righteous will live forever.” — Matthew 5:5; Psalm 37:29

Daniel 7:13-14 I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him. And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.

Sorry, but look at other versions. Daniel 7:13,14 does not say that…Your version doesn’t represent the Hebrew wording accurately; it says “someone like a son of man”, not “someone like the son of man”. (It’s not a title used there. The definite article “the” is not used with “son of man.”)
And Jesus was “like a son of man”. He was born a human, and grew up to be “a man.”

Daniel 7:13 in Hebrew…..
Hebrew
In my vision
בְּחֶזְוֵ֣י (bə·ḥez·wê)
Preposition-b | Noun - masculine plural construct
Strong's 2376: Vision, appearance

in the night
לֵֽילְיָ֔א (lê·lə·yā)
Noun - masculine singular determinate
Strong's 3916: Night

I continued
הֲוֵית֙ (hă·wêṯ)
Verb - Qal - Perfect - first person common singular
Strong's 1934: To become, come to pass, be

to watch:
חָזֵ֤ה (ḥā·zêh)
Verb - Qal - Participle - masculine singular
Strong's 2370: To gaze upon, mentally to dream, be usual

And I saw
וַאֲרוּ֙ (wa·’ă·rū)
Conjunctive waw | Interjection
Strong's 718: Lo!

One like a Son
כְּבַ֥ר (kə·ḇar)
Preposition-k | Noun - masculine singular construct
Strong's 1247: A son, grandson

of Man
אֱנָ֖שׁ (’ĕ·nāš)
Noun - masculine singular
Strong's 606: Man, mankind

coming
אָתֵ֣ה (’ā·ṯêh)
Verb - Qal - Participle - masculine singular
Strong's 858: To arrive

with
עִם־ (‘im-)
Preposition
Strong's 5974: With, equally with

the clouds
עֲנָנֵ֣י (‘ă·nā·nê)
Noun - masculine plural construct
Strong's 6050: A cloud, the nimbus, thunder-cloud

of heaven.
שְׁמַיָּ֔א (šə·may·yā)
Noun - mdd
Strong's 8065: The sky


(What version are you using? You’ve got to be careful.)

Have a good day, the best you can.

 

[Truthseeker]

Sure he did…when he said, “My kingdom is no part of this world.”

If his kingdom is no part of this word he is heavenly king, not an earthly king.

 

[Truthseeker]

You’re exactly right! But that doesn’t negate him from being the Heavenly King of God’s Kingdom.

All Messengers by my belief are the Heavenly King of God's Kingdom. How can they all be that at the same time? Because for all of them their purpose and their message is the purpose and message of the same God, which is the only God.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

@joelr said:

“Bertrand Russell said it because it was the beginning of a War which set off another war. Not the end times.

And WW1 is cherry picking to make your date work. There is the Trinity test, 1945 among MANY other dates that would relate to nuclear war. The start of WW1 is a huge stretch to involve nuclear war.

“Half a century has gone by, yet the mark that the tragedy of the Great War left on the body and soul of the nations has not faded . . . The physical and moral magnitude of this ordeal was such that nothing left was the same as before. Society in its entirety: systems of government, national borders, laws, armed forces, interstate relations, but also ideologies, family life, fortunes, positions, personal relations—everything was changed from top to bottom. . . . Humanity finally lost its balance, never to recover it to this day.” (General Charles de Gaulle, Le Monde, Nov. 12, 1968, p. 9)


“Those who lived through the war could never rid themselves of the belief that one world had ended and another begun in August 1914.” (The Generation of 1914, Robert Wohl, Professor of History)



“The whole world really blew up about World War I and we still don’t know why. Before then, men thought that utopia was in sight. There was peace and prosperity. Then everything blew up. We’ve been in a state of suspended animation ever since . . . More people have been killed in this century than in all of history.” (Dr. Walker Percy, American Medical News, November 21, 1977)
Click to expand...

And people say the same thing about WW2. This has nothing to do with a Persian apoctalyptic myth.”
-End-

Yes, WWII would be included as being in the Last Days, since it follows WWI.

As Jesus said, “All these things are a beginning of pangs of distress.” (Matthew 24:7,8) Its been going on for almost 110 years now.

The last days in Noah’s time, were 120 years.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

If his kingdom is no part of this word he is heavenly king, not an earthly king.

Yes, exactly.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

All Messengers by my belief are the Heavenly King of God's Kingdom. How can they all be that at the same time? Because for all of them their purpose and their message is the purpose and message of the same God, which is the only God.

When you say, “the Heavenly King of God’s Kingdom,” just where are you getting that phrase?

From the Bible, right?
Of course. (I know of no other religious writings that use that phrase.)

So I use only the Bible (and publications based solely on the Bible) to explain that Kingdom, and it’s King.

It only mentions Jesus, as that King… who will eventually turn the rulership over to His Father & God, who is our Father & God. - 1 Corinthians 15:27,28.

Have a good day, my cousin.

 

[Truthseeker]

@joelr said:

“Bertrand Russell said it because it was the beginning of a War which set off another war. Not the end times.

And WW1 is cherry picking to make your date work. There is the Trinity test, 1945 among MANY other dates that would relate to nuclear war. The start of WW1 is a huge stretch to involve nuclear war.





And people say the same thing about WW2. This has nothing to do with a Persian apoctalyptic myth.”
-End-

Yes, WWII would be included as being in the Last Days, since it follows WWI.

As Jesus said, “All these things are a beginning of pangs of distress.” (Matthew 24:7,8) Its been going on for almost 110 years now.

The last days in Noah’s time, were 120 years.

You know, the origin of your religion was sometime after the "Great Disappointment" of 1844. The right day was arrived at originally, but they got the manner of his arrival all wrong. They expected Him to literally come in the clouds, etc. See the first part of the Book of Certitude by Baha'u'llah for a lucid explanation of the most vital part of Matthew 24. The Kitáb-i-Íqán | Bahá’í Reference Library
It includes:


And now, with reference to His words: “And then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.” These words signify that in those days men will lament the loss of the Sun of the divine beauty, of the Moon of knowledge, and of the Stars of divine wisdom. Thereupon, they will behold the countenance of the promised One, the adored Beauty, descending from heaven and riding upon the clouds. By this is meant that the divine Beauty will be made manifest from the heaven of the will of God, and will appear in the form of the human temple. The term “heaven” denoteth loftiness and exaltation, inasmuch as it is the seat of the revelation of those Manifestations of Holiness, the Daysprings of ancient glory. These ancient Beings, though delivered from the womb of their mother, have in reality descended from the heaven of the will of God. Though they be dwelling on this earth, yet their true habitations are the retreats of glory in the realms above. Whilst walking amongst mortals, they soar in the heaven of the divine presence. Without feet they tread the path of the spirit, and without wings they rise unto the exalted heights of divine unity. With every fleeting breath they cover the immensity of space, and at every moment traverse the kingdoms of the visible and the invisible. Upon their thrones is written: “Nothing whatsoever keepeth Him from being occupied with any other thing”; and on their seats is inscribed: “Verily, His ways differ every day.”52 They are sent forth through the transcendent power of the Ancient of Days, and are raised up by the exalted will of God, the most mighty King. This is what is meant by the words: “coming in the clouds of heaven.”
(The Kitáb-i-Íqán)
www.bahai.org/r/636051742

Later:

By these luminous, these conclusive, and lucid statements, the meaning of “heaven” in the aforementioned verse hath thus been made clear and evident. And now regarding His words, that the Son of man shall “come in the clouds of heaven.” By the term “clouds” is meant those things that are contrary to the ways and desires of men. Even as He hath revealed in the verse already quoted: “As oft as an Apostle cometh unto you with that which your souls desire not, ye swell with pride, accusing some of being impostors and slaying others.”56 These “clouds” signify, in one sense, the annulment of laws, the abrogation of former Dispensations, the repeal of rituals and customs current amongst men, the exalting of the illiterate faithful above the learned opposers of the Faith. In another sense, they mean the appearance of that immortal Beauty in the image of mortal man, with such human limitations as eating and drinking, poverty and riches, glory and abasement, sleeping and waking, and such other things as cast doubt in the minds of men, and cause them to turn away. All such veils are symbolically referred to as “clouds.”
(The Kitáb-i-Íqán)
www.bahai.org/r/016064976

This is just a small sample.