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Exodus 16...Sabbath is tied to manna...it predates the 10 commandments

3rdAngel

Well-Known Member
Did Jesus identify as Son-Of-Man and literally permit worship of him?
I gather from your response you are a Jew? According to the scriptures, I believe Jesus is both God and man as Gods promised savior of mankind and Gods promised Messiah and sacrifice for the sins of the world who was both with God at creation and also the son of man and the son of God (see John 1:1-4; 14; Genesis 1:26; Hebrews 1:1-3; Colossians 1:16; Hebrews 1:8; John 10:30; John 8:58; John 20:28; Matthew 1:23; John 1:29; 36; John 10:30-33)
Did Jesus walk on water and allow people to call him truly/literally the Son of God then worship him? It doesn't matter if Jesus is God, this encourages idol worship which is a BIG problem. If Jesus isn't God, it's still a big problem.
There is no problem if you understand the scriptures and no this is not ignored. Jesus allowed people to worship Him as God, for example his own disciples worshiped Him and proclaimed Jesus as God here in John 20:28; John 1:1-4; 10; 14; Hebrews 1:2; Colossians 1:16; Hebrews 1:8.
Are you Jewish? Literally? not grafted onto Judaism, not "spiritual Israel" but your Mother is Jewish, and her Mother is Jewish? If not, the reason you and other Christians are not following the law doesn't really matter, because, you were never commanded to do so. I refer you to Acts 15. It's clear there is a different law for people who are not Jewish. So, like I said, this whole fulfillment / pointing idea... it's kind of hollow. All a christian need to do is follow Jesus' commandments + Acts 15. But that doesn't invalidate the 613 for Jewish people.
According to the scriptures the name "Israel" is outside of the covenants and is simply a name given by God to His people who choose to believe and obey Gods Word. In the old covenant Gods Israel was only all those who were born in the flesh of the seed of Abraham. In the new covenant Gods Israel are no longer those who are born of the flesh of the seed of Abraham but are now all those who have been born of the Spirit to believe and obey what Gods Word says. Unbelieving Jews who rejected Gods Messiah and promised Christ according to Romans 11:13-26 were the branches that have been broken off because of their unbelief.

Gods true Israel today are simply all those who have been born again in the Spirit to believe and obey what Gods Word says (see John 3:3-7 compare 1 John 3:5-9) from the heart (Matthew 22:36-40) and we are all now one in Christ if we believe and follow what Gods Word says. No one can profess to be Gods true Israel if they do not believe and obey what Gods Word says according to Romans 9:6-8; Galatians 3:38-39; Ephesians 2:11-13; Romans 2:28-29 and Colossians 3:11. No one can provided to be Gods people if they have not been grafted into Gods new covenant promise and are a part of Gods Israel (see Hebrews 8:10-12 from Jeremiah 31:31-34 and Ezekiel 36:24-27).

So no Acts 15 is not a free pass for anyone to go out and commit sin and not believe and obey what Gods Word says. Acts 15 was over the question is circumcision a requirement for the salvation of new gentile believers. The out come of that question was no, circumcision from the law of Moses was not a requirement for the salvation of new gentile believers and this burden was not to be put on them because they would be continuing to learn Gods Word every Sabbath (Acts 15:20-21). There is a reason the Jewish people no longer practice the laws of atonement and sin offerings. The Messiah who they pointed to has already arrived and is the reason the temple curtain was torn in two at Christs death on the cross for the sins of the world once and for all (see Mark 15:38; John 1:29; Hebrews 10:10). The shadow laws are now fulfilled and continued in Gods promised Messiah to who they pointed to. That is why we no longer follow the old covenant laws of atonement of the 613. We are in the new covenant not the old for those who accept the gift of Gods dear son in Jesus.

Take care.
 
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IndigoChild5559

Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
Just a reminder that most of the 613 are fulfilled in Christ to who they pointed to while Gods 10 commandments are Gods standard of right when obeyed from the heart and wrong that give us a knowledge of what sin is when broken (1 John 3:4; James 2:10-11; Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7).
Nobody can fulfill a commandment for someone else.

Ezekiel 18:20
The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.
 

3rdAngel

Well-Known Member
Nobody can fulfill a commandment for someone else.

Ezekiel 18:20
The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.
You do err not knowing the scriptures. It is true a sinner cannot pay the price of another persons sins. No one has ever posted that is the case to you, so the scripture you posted is not relevant. Do you understand what the old covenant laws of atonement for sin were for?
 
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IndigoChild5559

Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
Just as I thought. You do not know the meaning of the scriptures or understand what the old covenant laws of atonement for sin were for.
ROFL This sort of desperate attempt to discredit me is known as an ad hominem attack. It is a logical fallacy. But then again, you don't seem to care that you are illogical. Moving on...
 

3rdAngel

Well-Known Member
ROFL This sort of desperate attempt to discredit me is known as an ad hominem attack. It is a logical fallacy. But then again, you don't seem to care that you are illogical. Moving on...
I did not need to discredit you. You did that all by yourself by not understanding what the old covenant Sanctuary laws for sin and atonement were for and why the scripture you posted was not relevant to what was being discussed in regards to the laws of atonement and sin offerings. If you do not know the answers to my questions I am happy to answer them for you. Just let me know. If you do not want to know than that is between you and God, but be honest. Do not pretend you know things that you obviously do not.

Take Care.
 
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metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
Just a reminder that most of the 613 are fulfilled in Christ to who they pointed to while Gods 10 commandments are Gods standard of right when obeyed from the heart and wrong that give us a knowledge of what sin is when broken (1 John 3:4; James 2:10-11; Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7).
Thus, it's we who have the obligation to love God and love all, which is what I've been saying all along.
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
Just as I thought. You do not know the meaning of the scriptures or understand what the old covenant laws of atonement for sin were for.
Atonement for sin as found in Torah never involved sacrificing humans.
 

3rdAngel

Well-Known Member
Atonement for sin as found in Torah never involved sacrificing humans.
No one said they did... The old covenant laws of atonement were shadow laws pointing to the coming of Gods sacrifice for the sins of the world once and for all in Jesus...

John 1:29 29, The next day John sees Jesus coming unto him, and saith, BEHOLD THE LAMB OF GOD, WHICH TAKES AWAY THE SIN OF THE WORLD.​
Hebrews 10:1-10 1, ¶ FOR THE LAW HAVING A SHADOW OF GOOD THINGS TO COME, AND NOT THE VERY IMAGE OF THE THINGS, CAN NEVER WITH THOSE SACRIFICES WHICH THEY OFFERED YEAR BY YEAR CONTINUALLY MAKE THE COMERS THEREUNTO PERFECT. 2, For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshipers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins. 3, But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year. 4, FOR IT IS NOT POSSIBLE THAT THE BLOOD OF BULLS AND OF GOATS SHOULD TAKE AWAY SINS. 5, Wherefore when he comes into the world, he saith, SACRIFICE AND OFFERING THOU WOULD NOT, BUT A BODY HAST THOU PREPARED ME: 6, IN BURNT OFFERINGS AND SACRIFICES FOR SIN THOU HAST HAD NO PLEASURE. 7, ¶ Then said I, Lo, I come IN THE VOLUME OF THE BOOK IT IS WRITTEN OF ME, to do thy will, O God. 8, Above when he said, SACRIFICE AND OFFERING AND BURNT OFFERINGS AND OFFERING FOR SIN THOU WOULD NOT, NEITHER HADST PLEASURE THEREIN; WHICH ARE OFFERED BY THE LAW; 9, Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He takes away the first, that he may establish the second. 10, BY THE WHICH WILL WE ARE SANCTIFIED THROUGH THE OFFERING OF THE BODY OF JESUS CHRIST ONCE FOR ALL.​
1 Corinthians 5:7 Clean out the old leaven so that you may be a new lump, just as you are in fact unleavened. For CHRIST OUR PASSOVER ALSO HAS BEEN SACRIFICED.​
Hebrews 13:11-13 FOR THE BODIES OF THOSE ANIMALS WHOSE BLOOD IS BROUGHT INTO THE HOLY PLACE BY THE HIGH PRIEST AS AN OFFERING FOR SIN, ARE BURNED OUTSIDE THE CAMP. THEREFORE JESUS ALSO, THAT HE MIGHT SANCTIFY THE PEOPLE THROUGH HIS OWN BLOOD, SUFFERED OUTSIDE THE GATE. So, let us go out to Him outside the camp, bearing His reproach.​
Take Care.
 

3rdAngel

Well-Known Member
Thus, it's we who have the obligation to love God and love all, which is what I've been saying all along.
I think you missed the point of my last post. Most of the 613 commandments in regards to the Sanctuary laws and laws of atonement and remission of sins, circumcision and feast days of the old testament are not a requirement of the new covenant. However, Gods 10 commandments are Gods eternal moral laws of right and wrong doing and show us our duty of love to God and man and are still God's standard of good and evil; sin and righteousness and right and wrong when obeyed and disobeyed.

Take Care.
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
However, Gods 10 commandments are Gods eternal moral laws
There are 613 Commandments, not just 10.

Again and again, Jesus' Two Commandants of love covers all 613, including the Decalogue, thus I'm not being inconsistent.
 

dybmh

דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
I gather from your response you are a Jew?

If you look to the left, directly under my username, it indicates I am Jewish. Yes, I come from a large Jewish family. Both parents are Jewish. All 4 grandparents are Jewish. My wife is Jewish. All 4 of her grandparents are Jewish. My mom is a Levi.

According to the scriptures, I believe Jesus is both God and man as Gods promised savior of mankind and Gods promised Messiah and sacrifice for the sins of the world who was both with God at creation and also the son of man and the son of God (see John 1:1-4; 14; Genesis 1:26; Hebrews 1:1-3; Colossians 1:16; Hebrews 1:8; John 10:30; John 8:58; John 20:28; Matthew 1:23; John 1:29; 36; John 10:30-33)

You're missing the point. Jesus claims to be the Son-Of-Man, and accepts worship as the Son-Of-Man. Son-of-Man is NOT GOD. worship directed to "Son-Of-Man" is idol worship.


According to the scriptures the name "Israel" is outside of the covenants and is simply a name given by God to His people who choose to believe and obey Gods Word. In the old covenant Gods Israel was only all those who were born in the flesh of the seed of Abraham. In the new covenant Gods Israel are no longer those who are born of the flesh of the seed of Abraham but are now all those who have been born of the Spirit to believe and obey what Gods Word says. Unbelieving Jews who rejected Gods Messiah and promised Christ according to Romans 11:13-26 were the branches that have been broken off because of their unbelief.

Gods true Israel today are simply all those who have been born again in the Spirit to believe and obey what Gods Word says (see John 3:3-7 compare 1 John 3:5-9) from the heart (Matthew 22:36-40) and we are all now one in Christ if we believe and follow what Gods Word says. No one can profess to be Gods true Israel if they do not believe and obey what Gods Word says according to Romans 9:6-8; Galatians 3:38-39; Ephesians 2:11-13; Romans 2:28-29 and Colossians 3:11. No one can provided to be Gods people if they have not been grafted into Gods new covenant promise and are a part of Gods Israel (see Hebrews 8:10-12 from Jeremiah 31:31-34 and Ezekiel 36:24-27).

I asked if you were Jewish. Not grafted onto Judaism, not "spiritual Israel". It appears the answer is 'no', you are not Jewish. All of the above seems silly to me. It's stealing someone else's name, someone else's identity. why? why steal? aren't you Christian? what could you possibly desire outside of Christ that is supplied by stealing someone else's name? isn't being Christian enough? what more is there?

the simple truth is, the commandments were not given to you and yours. you can do them. or not do them. maybe God appreciates it, maybe God hates it.

So no Acts 15 is not a free pass for anyone to go out and commit sin and not believe and obey what Gods Word says.

Clearly you're not reading what I wrote. I wrote: "I refer you to Acts 15. It's clear there is a different law for people who are not Jewish."

I did not say, imply, or intend any sort of "free pass". I said that Christians should follow what Jesus commanded + Acts 15. That is the opposite of a free-pass.


There is a reason the Jewish people no longer practice the laws of atonement and sin offerings.

You are simply not qualified to make this sort of assertion. without knowing the law, you would never know if the laws are being followed or not. This is typical. Some people think they know the law. It's weird.

The Messiah who they pointed to has already arrived and is the reason the temple curtain was torn in two at Christs death on the cross for the sins of the world once and for all (see Mark 15:38; John 1:29; Hebrews 10:10). The shadow laws are now fulfilled and continued in Gods promised Messiah to who they pointed to. That is why we no longer follow the old covenant laws of atonement of the 613. We are in the new covenant not the old for those who accept the gift of Gods dear son in Jesus.

Like I said, your reasons for folloing the law or not, has no bearing or authority on whether or not a Jewish person follows the law. A torn curtain is not the word of God.

IF Jesus identified as "Son-Of-Man" and IF accepted literal worship, THEN Jesus is NOT the messiah indicated in the Hebrew bible. That's false prophet territory.

But, if he was not literally worshipped, it's not that big of a deal.
 
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3rdAngel

Well-Known Member
There are 613 Commandments, not just 10.
According to the scriptures we are in the new covenant now not the old (Hebrews 8:10-12). We no longer need to do animal sacrifices and sin offerings and follow the old covenant Sanctuary laws for atonement of our sins, circumcision, the annual feasts days and the old covenant Levitical laws to seek Gods forgiveness of sin . These were all prophetic "shadow laws" fulfilled and continued in Gods promised Messiah in Jesus and His work of salvation for mankind. (see John 1:29; Hebrews 7:1-25; Hebrews 8:1-13; Hebrews 9:1-26 and Hebrews 10:1-22). So we do not need to follow these laws today in the new covenant. To do so would be to deny Gods promised Messiah in Jesus and sin against God.
Again and again, Jesus' Two Commandants of love covers all 613, including the Decalogue, thus I'm not being inconsistent.
Love to God and man is not separate from obedience to Gods law according to the scriptures. Love is expressed through obeying Gods law from the heart. This is what the Gods new covenant promise is about and true circumcision of the heart through the Spirit and not of the flesh (see Hebrews 8:10-12; 1 Corinthians 7:18). That is why Jesus when quoting from two great commandments of love to God and man from Deuteronomy 6:5 and Leviticus 19:18 in Matthew 22:36-40 ends by saying "On these two great commandments (of love to God and man) hang (are attached) all the law and the prophets (Matthew 22:40). Paul also agrees with Jesus in Romans 13:8-10 where he states that loving our neighbor as our self is simply summarizing obedience to Gods law. Therefore love is expressed through obedience to Gods 10 commandments from the heart. (see also James 2:8-12). Therefore you are being inconsistent if you are trying to argue that love is an excuse to sin and break Gods law when the scriptures teach genuine love to God and man is expressed in obedience to Gods law from the heart.

Take Care.
 

3rdAngel

Well-Known Member
If you look to the left, directly under my username, it indicates I am Jewish. Yes, I come from a large Jewish family. Both parents are Jewish. All 4 grandparents are Jewish. My wife is Jewish. All 4 of her grandparents are Jewish. My mom is a Levi.
How privileged are you to be a part of Gods original called people who were given Gods Word and called to follow God and His promised Messiah? How sad though for all those who are today still Jews who reject Gods promised Messiah in Jesus and do not believe Gods Word and have become the broken branches of Romans 11 who have been broken off from Gods true Israel. As shown through the scriptures earlier. Gods true Israel are today all those who are born of the Spirit into Gods new covenant promise by believing and obeying what Gods Word says.
You're missing the point. Jesus claims to be the Son-Of-Man, and accepts worship as the Son-Of-Man. Son-of-Man is NOT GOD. worship directed to "Son-Of-Man" is idol worship.
With all respect, no, I did not miss the point you were trying to make at all. I addressed it through the scriptures. It is you who have missed the point. As posted earlier, according to the scriptures, Jesus is both God and man. Jesus was in the beginning with God and is our creator who created all thing in heaven and earth (see John 1:1-4; 14; Genesis 1:26; Hebrews 1:1-3; Colossians 1:16; Hebrews 1:8; John 10:30; John 8:58; John 20:28; Matthew 1:23; John 1:29; 36; John 10:30-33). Jesus who is God became the "son of man" when he came into our world and was born as a man and lived as a man in order to be mans perfect sinless sacrifice for the sins of the whole world so that we through faith in His sacrifice and death can receive Gods forgiveness and atonement for our sins. Jesus claims to be both the "son of man" and the "son of God" (Matthew 8:29; Matthew 14:33; Matthew 16:16; Matthew 26:63 etc). If we are to worship God and Jesus is God then how is worshiping Jesus idol worship? Jesus is both Messiah, son of man, the son of God and God. This is the point you missed and how your last post was answered according to the scriptures. (see John 1:1-4; 14; Genesis 1:26; Hebrews 1:1-3; Colossians 1:16; Hebrews 1:8; John 10:30; John 8:58; John 20:28; Matthew 1:23; John 1:29; 36; John 10:30-33). Jesus is worshiped as God because He is God and Jesus is not worshiped as a man. Until you can see this you will always be one of those who were blessed and called by God but refused to receive Gods blessing because of your unbelief and rejection of Jesus as Gods promised Messiah who you are still waiting for.
I asked if you were Jewish. Not grafted onto Judaism, not "spiritual Israel". It appears the answer is 'no', you are not Jewish. All of the above seems silly to me. It's stealing someone else's name, someone else's identity. why? why steal? aren't you Christian? what could you possibly desire outside of Christ that is supplied by stealing someone else's name? isn't being Christian enough? what more is there? the simple truth is, the commandments were not given to you and yours. you can do them. or not do them. maybe God appreciates it, maybe God hates it.
As posted earlier and shown from the scriptures the name "Israel" is simply a name given by God to all those who by faith choose to believe and obey what Gods Word says. According to the scriptures Gods true Israel are no longer all those born of the flesh of the seed of Abraham who do not believe and obey what Gods Word says, but are now all those who have been born again of the Spirit to believe and obey what Gods Word says (John 3:3-7; 1 John 3:6-9).

The unbelieving Jews use to say to Jesus "We have Abraham for our father" Jesus would say to them if Abraham were your father you would do the works of Abraham. He said to the unbelieving Jews "you do the works of your father the devil" (see John 8:37-44). So to me and understanding the scriptures shared with you in the last post it seems silly to think that anyone can claim to be Gods poeple Israel if they do not believe and do what Gods Word says.

This is why it is written in the scriptures, in Romans 9:6-8 "Not as though the word of God has taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall your seed be called. That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed." No one therefore can make any claims to being Gods Israel if they do not believe and obey what Gods Word says according to the scriptures.
Clearly you're not reading what I wrote. I wrote: "I refer you to Acts 15. It's clear there is a different law for people who are not Jewish." I did not say, imply, or intend any sort of "free pass". I said that Christians should follow what Jesus commanded + Acts 15. That is the opposite of a free-pass.
I did indeed read what you posted. Clearly it is you that is not reading what was written to you which is why you did not address anything in the post you are responding to. Acts 15 is talking about the question "Is circumcision from the law of Moses a requirement for the salvation of new gentile believers?" This is stated in the context of Acts 15:1-2 and it was over this question that the Apostles went to Jerusalem to discuss. They were not going to Jerusalem to discuss if the Gentiles no longer had to obey the rest of Gods laws. As shown through the scriptures earlier, circumcision from the law of Moses was not a requirement for the salvation of new gentile believers and this burden was not to be put on them because they would be continuing to learn Gods Word every Sabbath (Acts 15:20-21). Jesus taught and lived that man does not live by bread alone but by every Word that proceeds out of the mouth of God (see Matthew 4:4 from Deuteronomy 8:3). Christians are to live by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God. This is who Gods true Israel are according to the scriptures.
You are simply not qualified to make this sort of assertion. without knowing the law, you would never know if the laws are being followed or not. This is typical for Christians. They think they know the law. It's weird.
We have access to the same scriptures and laws as you do. What makes us qualified is believing and obeying what Gods Word says. What makes someone unqualified in Gods Word is not believing and not obeying what Gods Word says. It is weird to think anyone can claim to be qualified in Gods Word if they do not believe and obey what Gods Word says. This is the same self deception that those unbelieving Jews held when their whole claim to being Gods people was that they had Abraham for their father but did not believe or do what Abraham did (see John 8:37-44) as shared with you earlier.

Take Care.
 
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dybmh

דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
How privileged are you to be a part of Gods original called people who were given Gods Word and called to follow God and His promised Messiah?

I don't know... it's a blessing and a curse I guess.

How sad though for all those who are today still Jews who reject Gods promised Messiah in Jesus and do not believe Gods Word and have become the broken branches of Romans 11 who have been broken off from Gods true Israel. As shown through the scriptures earlier. Gods true Israel are today all those who are born of the Spirit into Gods new covenant promise by believing and obeying what Gods Word says.

It's not sad at all. It would be foolish to lower our standards.


With all respect, no, I did not miss the point you were trying to make at all. I addressed it through the scriptures. It is you who have missed the point. As posted earlier, according to the scriptures, Jesus is both God and man. Jesus was in the beginning with God and is our creator who created all thing in heaven and earth (see John 1:1-4; 14; Genesis 1:26; Hebrews 1:1-3; Colossians 1:16; Hebrews 1:8; John 10:30; John 8:58; John 20:28; Matthew 1:23; John 1:29; 36; John 10:30-33). Jesus who is God became the "son of man" when he came into our world and was born as a man and lived as a man in order to be mans perfect sinless sacrifice for the sins of the whole world so that we through faith in His sacrifice and death can receive Gods forgiveness and atonement for our sins. Jesus claims to be both the "son of man" and the "son of God" (Matthew 8:29; Matthew 14:33; Matthew 16:16; Matthew 26:63 etc). If we are to worship God and Jesus is God then how is worshiping Jesus idol worship? Jesus is both Messiah, son of man, the son of God and God. This is the point you missed and how your last post was answered according to the scriptures. (see John 1:1-4; 14; Genesis 1:26; Hebrews 1:1-3; Colossians 1:16; Hebrews 1:8; John 10:30; John 8:58; John 20:28; Matthew 1:23; John 1:29; 36; John 10:30-33). Jesus is worshiped as God because He is God and Jesus is not worshiped as a man. Until you can see this you will always be one of those who were blessed and called by God but refused to receive Gods blessing because of your unbelief and rejection of Jesus as Gods promised Messiah who you are still waiting for.

None of this addresses that Jesus identified himself as the "Son-of-Man" which is not God and is best known as an angel. If Jesus permitted people to literally worship the "Son-of-Man" the angel, that's encouraging idol-worship. If Jesus permitted people to literally worship the one "like a Son-Of-Man" from Daniel's vision then that's encouraging idol-worship.

If Jesus is God then Jesus/God lied about being "Son-of-Man" the angel.

Or.

If Jesus is God then Jesus/God lied about being "like the Son-Of-Man" from Daniel's vision.

The solution is to consider these stories non-literal.

As posted earlier and shown from the scriptures the name "Israel" is simply a name given by God to all those who by faith choose to believe and obey what Gods Word says. According to the scriptures Gods true Israel are no longer all those born of the flesh of the seed of Abraham who do not believe and obey what Gods Word says, but are now all those who have been born again of the Spirit to believe and obey what Gods Word says (John 3:3-7; 1 John 3:6-9).

Not true. It's a name given to Jacob. If the Christian bible is telling you it's OK to steal someone else's name, that is a surprise to me.

And you didn't answer the question. why would a Christian desire, covet, someone else's name? Isn't being a Christian enough? what could possibly be missing for a person's who's life is in Christ?

Makes no sense to make some sort of spriritual land grab. Unless... they're not actually in Christ and they still are seeking something.

The unbelieving Jews use to say to Jesus "We have Abraham for our father" Jesus would say to them if Abraham were your father you would do the works of Abraham. He said to the unbelieving Jews "you do the works of your father the devil" (see John 8:37-44). So to me and understanding the scriptures shared with you in the last post it seems silly to think that anyone can claim to be Gods poeple Israel if they do not believe and do what Gods Word says.

This is why it is written in the scriptures, in Romans 9:6-8 "Not as though the word of God has taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall your seed be called. That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed." No one therefore can make any claims to being Gods Israel if they do not believe and obey what Gods Word says according to the scriptures.

None of this answers the question, why covet someone else's name? why steal it? so there's a book, "romans", written by a human. not a prophet, a sinner, who is telling you it's OK to steal? why do you believe it? it has loopholes in there too? ways to to steal the levitic preisthood too? or is that galatians?

I did indeed read what you posted. Clearly it is you that is not reading what was written to you which is why you did not address anything in the post you are responding to. Acts 15 is talking about the question "Is circumcision from the law of Moses a requirement for the salvation of new gentile believers?" This is stated in the context of Acts 15:1-2 and it was over this question that the Apostles went to Jerusalem to discuss. They were not going to Jerusalem to discuss if the Gentiles no longer had to obey the rest of Gods laws. As shown through the scriptures earlier, circumcision from the law of Moses was not a requirement for the salvation of new gentile believers and this burden was not to be put on them because they would be continuing to learn Gods Word every Sabbath (Acts 15:20-21). Jesus taught and lived that man does not live by bread alone but by every Word that proceeds out of the mouth of God (see Matthew 4:4 from Deuteronomy 8:3). Christians are to live by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God. This is who Gods true Israel are according to the scriptures.

what you're typing deserves no response because it is dancing around avoiding the truth. Acts 15 absolutlely proves there is a different law for Christians.

I'm going to re-read Acts 15 right now, it's a quick read to make sure I'm correct.

~reading~

Yes! It's right there.
To the brothers among the Gentiles in Antioch, Syria, and Cilicia:​
Greetings.​
24It has come to our attention that some went out from us without our authorization and unsettled you, troubling your minds by what they said.c 25So we all agreed to choose men to send to you along with our beloved Barnabas and Paul, 26men who have risked their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. 27Therefore we are sending Judas and Silas to tell you in person the same things we are writing.​
28 It seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us not to burden you with anything beyond these essential requirements: 29 You must abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals, and from sexual immorality. You will do well to avoid these things.
Farewell.​

So like I said, there is a different law for the Christians. Per the Holy Spirit Christians are not to be burdened with ANYTHING OTHER THAN the essential requirements.

That's it. Christians have a different law. It's in writing.


We have access to the same scriptures and laws as you do. What makes us qualified is believing and obeying what Gods Word says. What makes someone unqualified in Gods Word is not believing and not obeying what Gods Word says. It is weird to think anyone can claim to be qualified in Gods Word if they do not believe and obey what Gods Word says. This is the same self deception that those unbelieving Jews held when their whole claim to being Gods people was that they had Abraham for their father but did not believe or do what Abraham did (see John 8:37-44) as shared with you earlier.

Obviously the Chrisitan bible is going to be biased against Jewish people and make us look to be something we're not.

OK. You claim to be qualified to make judgements about the law? You have access to it?

Please make a list of the order of weekday required activities of the levites when the temple stood. If you have acces to the law, you should be able to make a nice list in order of what happened every day.
 

3rdAngel

Well-Known Member
How privileged are you to be a part of Gods original called people who were given Gods Word and called to follow God and His promised Messiah? How sad though for all those who are today still Jews who reject Gods promised Messiah in Jesus and do not believe Gods Word and have become the broken branches of Romans 11 who have been broken off from Gods true Israel. As shown through the scriptures earlier. Gods true Israel are today all those who are born of the Spirit into Gods new covenant promise by believing and obeying what Gods Word says.
Your response here..
I don't know... it's a blessing and a curse I guess. It's not sad at all. It would be foolish to lower our standards.
I might have to break this response into two or three posts to cover everything here. I think you missed the point of the scriptures provided in the post you are responding to. The Jewish people as a nation who have rejected Gods promised Messiah in Jesus have lowered Gods standards through their unbelief and sins in rejecting Gods promised Messiah in Jesus which is why they have become the broken branches of Romans 11 who have been broken off from Gods true Israel. As shown through the scriptures earlier. Gods true Israel are today all those who are born of the Spirit into Gods new covenant promise by believing and obeying what Gods Word says.
With all respect, no, I did not miss the point you were trying to make at all. I addressed it through the scriptures. It is you who have missed the point. As posted earlier, according to the scriptures, Jesus is both God and man. Jesus was in the beginning with God and is our creator who created all thing in heaven and earth (see John 1:1-4; 14; Genesis 1:26; Hebrews 1:1-3; Colossians 1:16; Hebrews 1:8; John 10:30; John 8:58; John 20:28; Matthew 1:23; John 1:29; 36; John 10:30-33). Jesus who is God became the "son of man" when he came into our world and was born as a man and lived as a man in order to be mans perfect sinless sacrifice for the sins of the whole world so that we through faith in His sacrifice and death can receive Gods forgiveness and atonement for our sins. Jesus claims to be both the "son of man" and the "son of God" (Matthew 8:29; Matthew 14:33; Matthew 16:16; Matthew 26:63 etc). If we are to worship God and Jesus is God then how is worshiping Jesus idol worship? Jesus is both Messiah, son of man, the son of God and God. This is the point you missed and how your last post was answered according to the scriptures. (see John 1:1-4; 14; Genesis 1:26; Hebrews 1:1-3; Colossians 1:16; Hebrews 1:8; John 10:30; John 8:58; John 20:28; Matthew 1:23; John 1:29; 36; John 10:30-33). Jesus is worshiped as God because He is God and Jesus is not worshiped as a man. Until you can see this you will always be one of those who were blessed and called by God but refused to receive Gods blessing because of your unbelief and rejection of Jesus as Gods promised Messiah who you are still waiting for.
Your response here...
None of this addresses that Jesus identified himself as the "Son-of-Man" which is not God and is best known as an angel. If Jesus permitted people to literally worship the "Son-of-Man" the angel, that's encouraging idol-worship. If Jesus permitted people to literally worship the one "like a Son-Of-Man" from Daniel's vision then that's encouraging idol-worship. If Jesus is God then Jesus/God lied about being "Son-of-Man" the angel. Or. If Jesus is God then Jesus/God lied about being "like the Son-Of-Man" from Daniel's vision. The solution is to consider these stories non-literal.
Actually everything in the post you are quoting from addresses everything you have said earlier which is also supported with the scriptures. You just choose to ignore and not respond to anything that was written to you. What you missed and was already stated in the post you did not read was that Jesus is God and Jesus who was God came into our earth to live as a man (son of man - Gods perfect sin offering) to be Gods perfect offering for sin as the son of man and die for all the sins of mankind (scriptures already provided).
Not true. It's a name given to Jacob. If the Christian bible is telling you it's OK to steal someone else's name, that is a surprise to me. And you didn't answer the question. why would a Christian desire, covet, someone else's name? Isn't being a Christian enough? what could possibly be missing for a person's who's life is in Christ? Makes no sense to make some sort of spriritual land grab. Unless... they're not actually in Christ and they still are seeking something.. None of this answers the question, why covet someone else's name? why steal it? so there's a book, "romans", written by a human. not a prophet, a sinner, who is telling you it's OK to steal? why do you believe it? it has loopholes in there too? ways to to steal the levitic preisthood too? or is that galatians?
Here we will need to disagree. You simply ignored what was shared to you through the scriptures again. According to the scriptures, the name “Israel” was only ever a name that was given to all those who believed and followed Gods’ Word in both the old covenant and the new. The only difference is that in the old covenant Gods’ promises were only ever directly made to Abraham and his seed who God named Israel because Jacob wrestled with the angel to seek deliverance from his brother who he stole the birthright from. The name "Israel" is only a name given by God himself to represent his people.

The origin of the name "Israel" come from Genesis 32:28 where Jacob wrestled with the angel and prevailed where he was told “for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed.” The name of “Israel” means is his posterity will rule as God. I think the problem you are having is understanding who Israel is under the old and new covenants. The name “Israel is simply only a name given by God to all those who believe and follow Gods’ Word. It is a name simply representing Gods’ people in both the old and the new covenants. If you understand this you will see that all of God’s Word is for all of Gods’ people.

What you did not understand in the last post was that according to the scriptures, in the new testament ods true Israel are no longer all those born of the flesh of the seed of Abraham who do not believe and obey what Gods Word says, but are now all those who have been born again of the Spirit to believe and obey what Gods Word says (John 3:3-7; 1 John 3:6-9). The unbelieving Jews use to say to Jesus "We have Abraham for our father" Jesus would say to them if Abraham were your father you would do the works of Abraham. He said to the unbelieving Jews "you do the works of your father the devil" (see John 8:37-44). So to me and understanding the scriptures shared with you in the last post it seems silly to think that anyone can claim to be Gods people Israel if they do not believe and do what Gods Word says.

This is why it is written in the scriptures, in Romans 9:6-8 "Not as though the word of God has taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall your seed be called. That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed."

No one therefore can make any claims to being Gods Israel if they do not believe and obey what Gods Word says according to the scriptures. Those who claim to be Gods Israel but do not believe and do what Gods Word says are the ones who are trying to steal Gods name that he gave to His people. Jesus called those unbelieving Jews of the devil and not of God because they did not believe and do what Gods Word said. Gods true Israel according to the scriptures in the new covenant are no longer those who are born in the flesh of the seed of Abraham but all those who are now born of the Spirit of God through faith in Gods Word. Unbelieving Jews have are the broken branches and believing Jews and gentiles are Gods true Israel according to the scriptures.

more to come...
 
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3rdAngel

Well-Known Member
what you're typing deserves no response because it is dancing around avoiding the truth. Acts 15 absolutlely proves there is a different law for Christians. I'm going to re-read Acts 15 right now, it's a quick read to make sure I'm correct. ~reading~ Yes! It's right there.
To the brothers among the Gentiles in Antioch, Syria, and Cilicia: Greetings. 24It has come to our attention that some went out from us without our authorization and unsettled you, troubling your minds by what they said.c 25So we all agreed to choose men to send to you along with our beloved Barnabas and Paul, 26men who have risked their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. 27Therefore we are sending Judas and Silas to tell you in person the same things we are writing. 28 It seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us not to burden you with anything beyond these essential requirements: 29 You must abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals, and from sexual immorality. You will do well to avoid these things. Farewell.

So like I said, there is a different law for the Christians. Per the Holy Spirit Christians are not to be burdened with ANYTHING OTHER THAN the essential requirements. That's it. Christians have a different law. It's in writing.
With all due respect what you are claiming here is nonsense, but let me show you why it is you who is dancing around the truth and avoiding the truth by simply adding the context back into the scriptures are quoting to try and support claims that gentile believers are not to follow God's law.

I will preface my response to you though by saying that we are in the new covenant now not the old covenant and for all of Gods people we no longer fall under the Levitical Priesthood, and the Sanctuary laws of atonement and animal sacrifices and sin offerings, circumcision, and annual Feast days that are linked directly into these Sanctuary laws. These were all shadows of things to come pointing to Gods promised Messiah in Jesus and are now fulfilled and continued in Him (see Hebrews 7:1-25; Hebrews 8:1-13; Hebrews 9:1-27, Hebrews 10:1-22 and Colossians 2:16-17).

However Gods 10 commandments and other moral laws, and other dietary and health and hygiene laws are still a requirement for all believers of Gods Word in the new covenant (Matthew 5:17-19) and to break these laws when we have been given a knowledge of the truth of Gods Word is sin according to the scriptures (1 John 3:4; Romans 7:7; James 2:10-11).

Now lets add the context back in from the scriptures you posted to see if they agree with what you are claiming that Gentiles are not required to follow any of Gods laws. You need to go back to the CONTEXT of the chapter to understand what ACTS 15 is talking about here to define the topic of conversation that the chapter is trying to address. Let's determine the topic of conversation and the question that the chapter is trying to decide on.Lets start with the context of Acts 15:1-2 which states what the problem is and what the Apostles are seeking clarification over.

ACTS 15:1:21​
[1], And certain men who came down from Judea taught the brethren, and said, EXCEPT YOU BE CIRCUMCISED AFTER THE MANNER OF MOSES, YOU CANNOT BE SAVED.​

NOTE: ACTS 15:1 is the question that needs to be answered and the topic of conversation and CONTEXT of the chapter of ACTS 15. Here we have Jewish believers coming to Paul and Barnabas saying if the new gentile believers are not circumcised and made proselytes then they cannot be saved. This is the chapter context.

[2], When therefore Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and dispute with them, they determined that Paul and Barnabas, and certain other of them, SHOULD GO UP TO JERUSALEM UNTO THE APOSTLES AND ELDERS ABOUT THIS QUESTION.​

NOTE: ACTS 15:2 there was much arguing over the claims of the Jewish believers who are claiming that unless the gentiles are circumcised they cannot be saved. They then determined that Paul and Barnabas must go to Jerusalem to the Apostles and elders ABOUT THIS QUESTION. Which question? Weather your salvation depends on being CIRCUMCISED. This is the scripture context you disregard. The question was never over the question are gentile Christians now free to break every law written in Torah. The topic context is over the question "is circumcision a requirement for the salvation of new gentile believer?" It was this question they were seeking to answer at Jerusalem.

[5], But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees who believed, saying, It is needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.​

NOTE: Remember as shown through the scriptures earlier, the question was never over if gentile believers should obey God's 10 Commandments or other laws. The scripture context tells us that Acts 15 is over the question is circumcision from the law of Moses a requirement for the salvation of new gentile believers as shown in Acts 15:1-2).

[6], And the apostles and elders came together to consider this matter.​
[7], And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, you know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.​
[8], And God, who knows the hearts, bore them witness, giving them the Holy Spirit, even as he did unto us;​

NOTE: After much discussion between the Apostles, Peter then rose up showing that God gave the gentile believers the Holy Spirit being uncircumcised.
[9], And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.​
[10], Now therefore why test God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?​
[11], But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.​

NOTE:
They came to the conclusion that salvation is not by being circumcised but by what circumcision pointed to. A new heart by faith. This is made plain latter in other scripture written by PAUL here...
ROMANS 2 [25] For circumcision verily profits, if you keep the law: but if you are a breaker of the law, your circumcision is made uncircumcision. [26], Therefore if the uncircumcision keeps the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision? [27], And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfils the law, judge you, who by the letter and circumcision do transgress the law? [28], FOR HE IS NOT A JEW, WHO IS ONE; NEITHER IS THAT CIRCUMCISION, WHICH IS OF THE OUTWARD FLESH: [29], BUT HE IS A JEW WHICH IS ONE INWARDLY; AND CIRCUMCISION IS THAT OF THE HEART, IN THE SPIRIT AND NOT IN THE LETTER; WHOSE PRAISE IS NOT OF MEN BUT OF GOD.​

If ACTS 15 was talking about Gods 10 Commandments or other laws of Torah then Paul's writings to the Corinthians gentile believers makes no sense at all where it is written...
1 CORINTHIANS 7 [19] CIRCUMCISION IS NOTHING, AND UNCIRCUMCISION IS NOTHING, BUT THE KEEPING OF THE COMMANDMENTS OF GOD.​

Back to Acts 15...

[12], Then all the multitude kept silence, and listened to Barnabas and Paul declaring what miracles and wonders God had done among the Gentiles by them.​
[13], And after they had held their peace, James answered, saying, Men and brethren, hearken unto me:​
[14], Simeon has declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name.​
[15], And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written,​
[16], After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up:​
[17], That the rest of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, says the Lord, who does all these things.​
[18], Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world.​
[19], Therefore my judgment is, that we trouble not them, who from among the Gentiles are turned to God:​
[20], But that we write unto them, that they abstain from defilements of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.​
[21], FOR MOSES OF OLD TIME HAS IN EVERY CITY THEM THAT PREACH HIM, BEING READ IN THE SYNAGOGUES EVERY SABBATH DAY.​
[23], And they wrote letters by them after this manner; The apostles and elders and brethren send greetings unto the brethren who are of the Gentiles in Antioch and Syria and Cilicia:​
[24], Since we have heard that certain who went out from us have troubled you with words, unsettling your souls, saying, YOU MUST BE CIRCUMCISED AND KEEP THE LAW: TO WHOM WE GAVE NO SUCH COMMANDMENT:​
[25], It seemed good unto us, being assembled with one accord, to send chosen men unto you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul,​
[26], Men that have hazarded their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.​
[27], We have sent therefore Judas and Silas, who shall also tell you the same things by mouth.​
[28], For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;​
[29], That you ABSTAIN FROM ANYTHING OFFERED TO IDOLS, AND FROM BLOOD, AND FROM THINGS STRANGLED, AND FROM FORNICATION: FROM WHICH IF YOU KEEP YOURSELVES, YOU SHALL DO WELL. Farewell.​

CONCLUSION So the conclusion of the matter (Acts 15:1-2). v19-20 We are not to trouble the new gentile believers with CIRCUMCISION as a means of salvation. They are new converts they will learn more about God as Moses is taught to them. When? EVERY SABBATH. In the meantime you should abstain from anything offered to idols, and from blood (torah laws), and from things strangled, and from fornication. Context proves your claims here are in error.
 

3rdAngel

Well-Known Member
Obviously the Chrisitan bible is going to be biased against Jewish people and make us look to be something we're not. OK. You claim to be qualified to make judgements about the law? You have access to it? Please make a list of the order of weekday required activities of the levites when the temple stood. If you have acces to the law, you should be able to make a nice list in order of what happened every day.
The Christian bible includes the same Hebrew bible you have and includes all the words of the Messiah that comes from the promises given by God and His prophets in the Hebrew bible and Torah. If you feel it is biased against unbelieving Jews are wrong. It simply states how unbelieving Jews rejected God and His Word and now they departed God to continue in sin and unbelief. Lets get our facts right.

Christianity was given to the world by believing Jews. Christianity came out of the Jewish religion. Jesus is the promised Messiah that came out of the Hebrew bible. I wish brother you could have your eyes opened to believe this and see your God who your people reject to this present day. Yes I am familiar with Torah laws. My bible is both the old and new testament scriptures which came from the Torah.

We are in the new covenant now not the old covenant. I will not be giving you any lists of laws but happy to discuss any law with you because as mentioned earlier we are in the new covenant now not the old and all the Levitical Priesthood, and Sanctuary laws of atonement for Gods forgiveness of sins are now fulfilled and continued in the promised Messiah and Gods plan of salvation for all mankind in Jesus to who they all pointed to.

Take Care.
 
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dybmh

דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
Your response here..

You asked my about my religion. I answered. But the topic of our discussion is whether or not Jesus literally "fulfilled" the law, and whether or not the law literally points to Christ.

My position is No, and No. It's a hollow doctrine once a person reads through the list of the 613. But, that is an opinion. Because of that I brought a specific objective example.

Jesus cannot literally have fulfilled the law if idol worship was encouraged. And since you are claiming Jesus is God, there's a problem Jesus is lying by claiming the title "Son of Man". Son-Of-Man is NOT GOD. Daniels vision, and Number 23. Son-Of-Man is NOT GOD. That's not me saying it. That is scripture.

Hopefully this brings the conversation back on track. It really doesn't matter one iota whether or not I think Jesus is the messiah. There's quite a few prophecies which are unfulfilled. These are important prophecies which indicate the end of days. Until they are fulfilled, it's silly to make any predictions about who is the messiah.

(son of man - Gods perfect sin offering)

I'm sorry, that's not what "Son-of-Man" means. Scripture absolutely defeats you here. I was being kind by using the book of Enoch, or perhaps Daniel's vision. This is what Son-Of-Man means in scripture.

God is not a Son-Of-Man: Numbers 23:9
God is not a man, that he should lie; nor the son of man, that he should repent. Has he said, and shall he not do it? or has he spoken, and shall he not make it good?​

Son-of-Man is a maggot: Job 25:6
How much less man, who is a worm? And the son of man, which is a maggot?​
Son-of-Man cannot be trusted: Psalms 146:3

Do not put your trust in princes, nor in the son of man, in whom there is no help.​
So, someone comes along announcing themself as the Son-Of-Man, it is NOT the perfect sacrifice. At best it is an angel from the book of enoch. And if you read the book of enoch, you'll see that's precisely whom he was talking about. An angel who rescues the souls from hell on jubliee.

Scripture specifically warns against the son-of-man.

Here we will need to disagree. You simply ignored what was shared to you through the scriptures again. According to the scriptures, the name “Israel” was only ever a name that was given to all those who believed and followed Gods’ Word in both the old covenant and the new.

It's not true. It doesn't matter how many times you claim the name for yourself. It's still theft. Identity theft. It doesn't matter if someone wrote it in a book. If it's human, not a prophet, coming from an author who twists scripture, seeks loopholes, then it's not coming from God. If it's not coming from God, it's theft.

The only difference is that in the old covenant Gods’ promises were only ever directly made to Abraham and his seed who God named Israel because Jacob wrestled with the angel to seek deliverance from his brother who he stole the birthright from. The name "Israel" is only a name given by God himself to represent his people.

Then you need God to present it to you, and no, you are not God, and the author of the epistles is not God. If you claim it for yourself, then you are claiming to be God. If the author of the epistles is claiming it for you, they they are claiming to be God.

They are not God, you are not God.

The origin of the name "Israel" come from Genesis 32:28 where Jacob wrestled with the angel and prevailed where he was told “for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed.” The name of “Israel” means is his posterity will rule as God. I think the problem you are having is understanding who Israel is under the old and new covenants. The name “Israel is simply only a name given by God to all those who believe and follow Gods’ Word. It is a name simply representing Gods’ people in both the old and the new covenants. If you understand this you will see that all of God’s Word is for all of Gods’ people.

That's not true. God chooses, not you.

What you did not understand in the last post was that according to the scriptures, in the new testament ods true Israel are no longer all those born of the flesh of the seed of Abraham who do not believe and obey what Gods Word says, but are now all those who have been born again of the Spirit to believe and obey what Gods Word says (John 3:3-7; 1 John 3:6-9). The unbelieving Jews use to say to Jesus "We have Abraham for our father" Jesus would say to them if Abraham were your father you would do the works of Abraham. He said to the unbelieving Jews "you do the works of your father the devil" (see John 8:37-44). So to me and understanding the scriptures shared with you in the last post it seems silly to think that anyone can claim to be Gods people Israel if they do not believe and do what Gods Word says.

So what? that does not make you into a God, does not give permission to steal someone else's name.

This is why it is written in the scriptures, in Romans 9:6-8 "Not as though the word of God has taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall your seed be called. That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed."

Romans is written by a man, a sinner, not a prophet. The book twists scripture, and seeks loopholes. I asked before, why do you trust it?

No one therefore can make any claims to being Gods Israel if they do not believe and obey what Gods Word says according to the scriptures.

God chooses, not you. Even if you are right, and you're not, you clearly do not know the law, so you are not capable of identifying who is or is not Israel. By the way "the word made flesh" is not the same as God's word.

Those who claim to be Gods Israel but do not believe and do what Gods Word says are the ones who are trying to steal Gods name that he gave to His people.

Nope, God chooses not you.

Jesus called those unbelieving Jews of the devil and not of God because they did not believe and do what Gods Word said. Gods true Israel according to the scriptures in the new covenant are no longer those who are born in the flesh of the seed of Abraham but all those who are now born of the Spirit of God through faith in Gods Word. Unbelieving Jews have are the broken branches and believing Jews and gentiles are Gods true Israel according to the scriptures.

If you believe that, then Jesus also claimed to be the Son of Man which makes him a liar, a maggot, and one who cannot be trusted.

God is not a Son-Of-Man: Numbers 23:9
God is not a man, that he should lie; nor the son of man, that he should repent. Has he said, and shall he not do it? or has he spoken, and shall he not make it good?​

Son-of-Man is a maggot: Job 25:6

How much less man, who is a worm? And the son of man, which is a maggot?​

Son-of-Man cannot be trusted: Psalms 146:3

Do not put your trust in princes, nor in the son of man, in whom there is no help.​
 
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