Theists, please tell me why you believe murder is wrong.

[Viker]

Because atheism is simple and boring.

Well, it's actually a nothingness or lack of something like belief in any deity. It's not boring but it should be simple to comprehend.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

No need. I understand your line of reasoning. I am, after all, a former Catholic.

I’m sorry, but I can tell that you don’t understand my reasoning, because my views are in no way shape or form equivalent to or synonymous with Catholicism!!

Like you, I believe the dead are dead. They not only don’t exist in any other realm (as in Heaven or hell).…they don’t exist at all! Ecclesiastes 9:5; Psalm 146:3,4
Completely different from Catholic (or most other groups’) teachings.

But there are forces actively trying, in any way possible, to keep people from learning the truth about the dead. That’s why such beliefs about the dead living in another realm are so ubiquitous…also, this faulty belief is one of the easiest to perpetuate, because it’s what people want to believe about their dead loved ones anyway.

But your belief in “no God” is fine with these unseen forces. That’s why none of these entities have bothered impostering your daughter to you; they’re content with your stance of atheism. If they did pretend to be your daughter, it might move you to search for & find Jehovah the Creator, and that’s the last thing these invisible entities want!



They’ve twisted & corrupted many teachings in the Bible!
One example: When you read the Bible, you can’t help but see the many times it mentions future blessings for people to live here on the Earth… but what is most every Bible-believer taught? They believe “I’m going to Heaven.” So much for the ‘meek inheriting the earth’, as Jesus stated at Matthew 5:5.

Can you grasp the extent of the deception going on? - Revelation 12:9… he’s “misleading the entire inhabited earth “!

You can’t ignore (or at least you shouldn’t) the fact that there are many on RF, rational posters here, who claim they frequently interact with unseen entities (now, I’m not talking about those on medication)…what’s your opinion?

 

[dybmh]

I think I'd get bored being an atheist, but I have to respect the opinions of atheists and agnostics that find religion to be dreadfully dull.

We're all put together very differently, so what appeals to one may not appeal to all.

And yet, "atheists" ( not apatheists ) love to argue with us. I wonder what they would do with out us? Probably set up an altar and start a religion. Take it on the road and start preaching it.

 

[Viker]

Ohhhhh that's self-defense. Clear and present danger? No problem-o. Nothing outside of that then?

No. Nothing outside of that.

 

[dybmh]

Well, it's actually a nothingness or lack of something like belief in any deity. It's not boring but it should be simple to comprehend.

What's interesting or exciting about it? Nothingness, a void, null, a cow that eats and is never satisfied always wasting away?

It's beyond simple. But if you are saying it's not boring, I sure would like to know what you see in it?

 

[dybmh]

No. Nothing outside of that.

What if someone comes asking for help, and to help them you perform a ritual. Would you explain to them everything you were going to do to them, with them, all the risks, and eveything that you yourself intend to gain from the experience?

Do you know all the risks of the rituals in your religion? Again, I'm asking about **informed** consent.

 

[JustGeorge]

And yet, "atheists" ( not apatheists ) love to argue with us. I wonder what they would do with out us? Probably set up an altar and start a religion. Take it on the road and start preaching it.

We have a local atheist group that kinda did that. They didn't build an altar, but they started proposing that they make invocations at City Counsel meetings. Our city accepted this without issue... until the cameras all showed up, and they realized it was a big publicity stunt. Other cities in the area just opted to stop doing prayers/invocations at all rather than host these people. I had a few personal run ins with them; not good. They do actively work to proselytize.

However, in my time on RF, I've rubbed elbows with much nicer atheists, and realized I just happened to run across a group of turds locally, and they're not a representative of all(or the majority of) atheists. Should I stumble across someone who reminds me of the members of that group, I generally just don't converse with them. Those types don't seem to want to converse, but rather relieve frustration at some wound their area's dominant religion has inflicted upon them. I feel like I'm wasting my time when I engage in those circumstances.

 

[Viker]

What if someone comes asking for help, and to help them you perform a ritual. Would you explain to them everything you were going to do to them, with them, all the risks, and eveything that you yourself intend to gain from the experience?

Do you know all the risks of the rituals in your religion?

Absolutely. I practice responsible ritualism. I am aware of the risks of consorting with the demonic devine. I would let this other person know as well.

 

[dybmh]

I'm not sure how you square this without accepting the converse (aka, that some things are completely and always right) but that's for you to sort out. Sometimes, our worldviews contain paradoxes and that's fine.

Please forgive me? I missed this.

Everything with a form can be corrupted. Only the completely formless and absolutely infinite is incorruptable.

 

[SalixIncendium]

I’m sorry, but I can tell that you don’t understand my reasoning, because my views are in no way shape or form equivalent to or synonymous with Catholicism!!

Nope. After reading your post, this is exactly the perspective I expected.

But your belief in “no God” is fine with these unseen forces. That’s why none of these entities have bothered impostering you daughter to you; they’re content with your stance of atheism. If they did pretend to be your daughter, it might move you to search for & find Jehovah the Creator, and that’s the last thing these invisible entities want!

I've made it clear time and again, I'm not an atheist. I don't need to find Jehovah. We are one and the same.

They’ve twisted & corrupted many teachings in the Bible!
One example: When you read the Bible, you can’t help but see the many times it mentions future blessings for people to live here on the Earth… but what is most every Bible-believer taught? “I’m going to Heaven.” So much for the ‘meek inherent the earth’, as Jesus stated at Matthew 5:5.

Future blessing assume time exists. Are you sure it does?

 

[dybmh]

and realized I just happened to run across a group of turds locally

I bow to your wisdom and hopefully I can grow up to be like you someday. Sincerely.

 

[Left Coast]

The word murder is defined as unjustified killing. Murder is wrong by definition.

Oh c'mon now, I'm sure you can do better than this.

What is it that makes a killing unjustified? Why is any killing unjustified? What is the moral basis for that determination?

 

[dybmh]

I don't need to find Jehovah. We are one and the same

Is that the proper way to pronounce your name? Jeh-Hoh-Vah?

 

[JustGeorge]

I bow to your wisdom and hopefully I can grow up to be like you someday. Sincerely.

I don't know if I've grown up or just out...

 

[Nakosis]

Because atheism is simple and boring.

I suppose that is way all us atheists come here, for the excitement offered by religious folks.

 

[Quintessence]

I agree. Which is why I am not rigid about my flexibility. If a person is rigidly dogmatic about being always and forever flexibile... that's an extreme in itself, and the same paradox presents itself in reverse. What was intended to be flexible has become rigid.

Not being rigid about flexibility is the best of both worlds. I am rigid when needed in the extremes, but flexible when needed in all other circumstances.

Are you sure?

In any case, it's nice seeing someone else address the paradox. I don't usually see others notice it. Thank you. You've clearly put a lot of thought into this. That means you'll have good insight to guide your path, wherever it might lead you.

OK. Maybe you can help me? What is productive, helpful, useful about wrath? ( not justice ) It is purely selfish, I cannot imagine anything at all good coming from it. There is no reason to avoid annihilating a person's existence, and instead torture them endlessly, force them to witness their children and pets being tortured, also endlessly, all because they knocked over your favorite blue spruce.

Same question for vain-glory. It's completely false. What good can come from it? This isn't fake it till you make it. This is pretending something that they're not, and if it is ever put to the test, it collapses. Something we see in the religious debates forum.

To grasp this we have to shift a bit outside of the typical deontological approach to ethics that seems very common in contemporary Western culture. That's not something everyone is comfortable with or able to do even as a thought experiment. Plus there are strong cultural taboos at work here, a desire to see oneself as the hero of one's own story, and yada yada yada.

As someone who has done some of those thought experiments, it... hmm. It serves as a reminder that ethical maxims are self-imposed limits on human behavior. They are not "real" so to speak - a human still has the capacity and ability to do the thing their ethics claim they shouldn't do. Which means those self-imposed limits can be ignored at any time, for any reason. Hence we have murder and any number of other things that disregard the self-imposed limits we call "ethics" and "morals."

The only way we really control human behavior is to render the human incapable of the behavior. Which, unsurprisingly, is one of the justifications for harming others, human or otherwise. Humans do not trust each other to maintain their self-imposed limits like ethics and morals. Nor should they when there are abundant examples of humans ignoring their self-imposed limits in favor of their actual limits.

I'm not a fan of Satanism, but when they observe humans are the most vicious of all animals, they're not wrong.

 

[SalixIncendium]

Is that the proper way to pronounce your name? Jeh-Hoh-Vah?

No. It's pronounced Sah-licks-incend-iyum. Thanks for asking.

 

[VoidCat]

No. It's pronounced Sah-licks-incend-iyum. Thanks for asking.

I've been wondering this forever and haven't asked for some reason

 

[dybmh]

No. It's pronounced Sah-licks-incend-iyum. Thanks for asking.

So you don't know how to pronunce יהוה? That's odd, being one and the same and all. Literally. I would expect to finally get this answered for everyone.

@Hockeycowboy , FYI, No worries, Cousin.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

I've made it clear time and again, I'm not an atheist.

I apologize, I thought I’d read in another thread where you said you were. I must have misunderstood. Sorry.

Future blessing assume time exists. Are you sure it does?

Yep. I’m getting older everyday. Along with more aches and pains.