FBI Says Covid-19 Most Likely A Leak From Lab

[John53]

I see a lot of conflicting data. But like I said, you do you and I'll do me. I feel like I've been pretty responsible during the pandemic. I can't control what other people choose to do.

The data isn't so much conflicting as misused and abused. I have no disagreement with the rest of your statement and have not been trying to suggest otherwise.

All I know is the measures taken here in Australia along with the vaccine have more than likely saved my life as I have a low immune system from a stem cell transplant so I am grateful for that.

 

[Subduction Zone]

If this is a pandemic, I'll have one - oh, I already have had one - AND the shots - AND COVID.

The world destroyed the world economy for a disease that has killed less than one percent of the population. Congrats, World.

The economy is not "destroyed". Was it harmed? Yes. How much are the millions of lives saved worth? I can tell that you probably do not realize that the vaccines worked.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I see a lot of conflicting data. But like I said, you do you and I'll do me. I feel like I've been pretty responsible during the pandemic. I can't control what other people choose to do.

The odds are that you are misinterpreting the data.

 

[Kathryn]

Meanwhile, I got my free prescription of Paxlovid when I got COVID. I took two doses of it and it made me INCREDIBLY sick. Ironically, most of the side effects listed were also listed as side effects of COVID so it was a bit confusing. All I know is that as soon as the meds got out of my system (several hours) I was fine again, even though I was still testing positive for COVID and was still puny - but hey, I no longer had a strange metallic taste in my mouth and I didn't have rampaging diahrrea or however you spell it anymore - I had those symptoms for the one day I took the Paxlovid but thankfully they subsided as soon as the meds were out of my system. You know what I had? Symptoms that were significantly less dsrupting than the flu, or even a sinus infection. Zero long term effects. But maybe I'm just lucky. Who knows? Anyway, I only tested positive for COVID for three days and I isolated myself for a week or more - don't recall the exact time frame but I followed my doctor's advice to a T. So that's my experience. This was after having three shots to keep from getting COVID. Within the past year. Still got it. Thankfully there was nothing to it for me.

Oh here's my experience with the shots - I got the first two (Pfizer, which made a bundle on this but I digress) and then I got another one about six months later. First shot, no negative effects. Second shot - fever for about twelve hours, slightly elevated temp for about twelve hours. THIRD ONE - I had a headache for FOUR STRAIGHT DAYS. It was pretty awful actually - nothing I took for it took the edge off it even. I didn't get the 4th shot because of the four days of a headache after the third one. It didn't matter - I got COVID in spite of the three shots (the last one within the last year). That's why I don't call a flu shot (which I get every year) a flu vaccine and that's why I don't call COVID shots vaccines either.

 

[Kathryn]

The odds are that you are misinterpreting the data.

The odds are that the whole thing has become so politicized that it's ridiculous.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Meanwhile, I got my free prescription of Paxlovid when I got COVID. I took two doses of it and it made me INCREDIBLY sick. Ironically, most of the side effects listed were also listed as side effects of COVID so it was a bit confusing. All I know is that as soon as the meds got out of my system (several hours) I was fine again, even though I was still testing positive for COVID and was still puny - but hey, I no longer had a strange metallic taste in my mouth and I didn't have rampaging diahrrea or however you spell it anymore - I had those symptoms for the one day I took the Paxlovid but thankfully they subsided as soon as the meds were out of my system. You know what I had? Symptoms that were significantly less dsrupting than the flu, or even a sinus infection. Zero long term effects. But maybe I'm just lucky. Who knows? Anyway, I only tested positive for COVID for three days and I isolated myself for a week or more - don't recall the exact time frame but I followed my doctor's advice to a T. So that's my experience. This was after having three shots to keep from getting COVID. Within the past year. Still got it. Thankfully there was nothing to it for me.

You probably do not understand this, but it is very likely that the vaccine still worked for you. Vaccines do two things. They reduce one's chances of getting the disease that they are designed to control. And second, if one does get it the symptoms tend to be much milder. Do you need some studies that show that this happened with covid? I can provide them.

I have had covid twice. The first time was about a month before the vaccine was available. It was one of the worst times that i have been ill in my life. I survived. When the vaccine was available I took it, the more protection the better. But I still got it a second time. The second time around was almost nothing compared to the first. The vaccine and my acquired natural immunity were enough to stave off the worst of symptoms.

 

[Subduction Zone]

The odds are that the whole thing has become so politicized that it's ridiculous.

Nope, the data tells us that you are wrong. But speaking of it being politicized, both parties in the US have science deniers in them. When it comes to covid there are far more antivaxxers in the Republican party than in the Democrat party. Trump counties had a higher death rate due to covid than non-Trump counties. It is the first disease with a political preference.

 

[Kathryn]

Here's another deal - you couldn't win for losing. See, you could be ASYMPTOMATIC and still be contagious - so you needed to wear a mask. And you also apparently needed to test regularly. The right type, and correctly (masks). Anytime you interacted with other people. To protect other people. You had to get vaccinated in many places, or you were being selfish. With a shot that hadn't been fully vetted yet. Do people not realize that the shots are STILL not fully vetted? But hey, I did it anyway. I also wore a mask, socially distanced, kept my hands super clean, etc. Still do many of those things, and was doing them when somewhere, somehow I contracted COVID from someone else. But hey, at least it was mild.

 

[Kathryn]

You probably do not understand this, but it is very likely that the vaccine still worked for you. Vaccines do two things. They reduce one's chances of getting the disease that they are designed to control. And second, if one does get it the symptoms tend to be much milder. Do you need some studies that show that this happened with covid? I can provide them.

I have had covid twice. The first time was about a month before the vaccine was available. It was one of the worst times that i have been ill in my life. I survived. When the vaccine was available I took it, the more protection the better. But I still got it a second time. The second time around was almost nothing compared to the first. The vaccine and my acquired natural immunity were enough to stave off the worst of symptoms.

Whatever works for you. I got three shots. I don't know why you're saying that I probably don't understand this, but I do understand that the SHOTS MAY HAVE (big "may have" there) kept my symptoms from being as severe. But many factors could have kept my symptoms from being as severe. So I don't know. Would I take the shots again? Probably but maybe not, who knows. The shots have not been fully researched and that's an issue to me, to stick something that hasn't been fully researched into my body.

TRUE STORY TIME: Long ago, in a galaxy far away, aka Thanksgiving 2021, about 15 of my family members (including about five teens) got together for Thanksgiving. It rained all week long so we were all crammed up together in one house and mostly in one room. About a third had had shots. About a third were elderly. About a third had had no shots. Get this - someone came down with COVID. He passed it on to several other people. Not me though, and also, none of the elderly people. He also didn't give it to his two daughters, who shared not only a room with him, but also rode home 12 hours, from Louisiana to Kentucky, in the same vehicle. His daughters were older teens at the time, and he was in his fifties. I don't know if he had been vaccinated or not. He probably had but he was still pretty sickish, with a low grade fever, for a couple of days. I don't know if his daughters had had any shots. Anyway, when he got home, he tested positive for COVID. Ironic but he actually felt fine by then. No lasting effects, thank goodness.

My other cousin (also in his fifties) had not had any of the shots. He also got it but he wasn't incapacitated by it ever and didn't develop symptoms he told anyone about till after dinner. He sat right next to me, super close, all during the dinner, by the way. We even exchanged drink glasses. We may have even eaten from each other's plates, I don't recall, but he is one of my very favorite cousins so we were all up in each other's faces for days. In fact, before dinner, we had played cards and he had sat next to me for hours.

One of my elderly aunts had had no shots. She didn't get it. Most people didn't get it in fact, If I did, I was totally asymptomatic, but I doubt seriously that I even got it. The other two people who got it were supposedly vaccinated as well as me. No one was all that sick with it, thank goodness, and certainly no one had to be hospitalized.

Oh, one more thing I just remembered - we all thought that the people who got the sickest (for about a day, maybe two days) had gotten a simple cold from one of the teens who did have a cold. She had tested, and tested negative for COVID. So we just thought of course that the people who got it caught a cold from her. It was the same symptoms but when they got home, they tested and it was positive for COVID.

That was interesting to me because when I came down with what I thought was allergies to cedar pollen a few weeks ago, I tested for COVID and it was negative - till I ran a fever the next day. I tested positive for the three days I ran a low fever. After that, I tested negative. By the way, these were tests I actually bought when I was traveling. They hadn't expired almost immediately, unlike some of the others.

Anyway, so at least five of my immediate family members didn't get the shots, including an elderly aunt, and by "elderly," I mean nearly 80 years old so pretty darn elderly. Only one of those people got COVID, though several who HAD been vaccinated also got it. No one was particularly sick and no one had to go to the hospital and no one had any long term effects that we know of.

 

[Kathryn]

Nope, the data tells us that you are wrong. But speaking of it being politicized, both parties in the US have science deniers in them. When it comes to covid there are far more antivaxxers in the Republican party than in the Democrat party. Trump counties had a higher death rate due to covid than non-Trump counties. It is the first disease with a political preference.

No, COVID doesn't have a political preference. Its less than 1 percent death rate targets the elderly and/or people with pre existing conditions. So we'd have to look at the populations of each county before passing any sort of judgment on why some counties had higher death rates than others. Though thankfully the death rates were low overall.

By the way, just a small point but it's a point nonetheless - there are more than two political parties in the US. I speak from personal experience, since there are things that don't sit well with me in the Democratic and the Republican parties. So I don't consider either of those to be "my" political party or affiliation.

 

[John53]

With a shot that hadn't been fully vetted yet. Do people not realize that the shots are STILL not fully vetted?

What's your source for this? The vaccines were tested exactly the same as every other vaccine. Here's one of numerous sources that verify it.

Were the COVID-19 Vaccines Tested Properly? | RWJBarnabas Health

Dr. John Bonamo explains the long history of mRNA vaccine studies and the rigorous testing processes the FDA required before authorizing COVID-19 vaccines for use.

www.rwjbh.org

 

[Kathryn]

What's your source for this? The vaccines were tested exactly the same as every other vaccine. Here's one of numerous sources that verify it.

Were the COVID-19 Vaccines Tested Properly? | RWJBarnabas Health

Dr. John Bonamo explains the long history of mRNA vaccine studies and the rigorous testing processes the FDA required before authorizing COVID-19 vaccines for use.

www.rwjbh.org

The "vaccines" were only authorized for emergency use by the FDA. Oh, and there's this: "Because there is an urgent need for COVID-19 vaccines and the Food and Drug Administration's (FDA's) vaccine approval process can take years, the FDA first gave emergency use authorization to COVID-19 vaccines based on less data than is typically required."

Debunking myths about COVID-19

Let's set the record straight on some circulating myths about COVID-19 vaccines, prevention and treatment.

www.mayoclinichealthsystem.org

I mean, that's just a start but like I've said, I still got three of the four shots. The third one gave me such a long term massive headache (for DAYS and days) that I didn't get the 4th shot. Ain't nobody got time fo dat.

 

[Kathryn]

Anyway, I got this one - and it didn't work as a vaccine because I still got COVID. But hey, I didn't die from it! WINNING. I mean, I guess I had it since I tested positive for three days while I ran a low grade fever. Haven't tested positive since. I mean, I quit testing after awhile but apparently I'm still supposed to test myself since the government has said that I can have 8 tests per month at no cost. So maybe I will test again just for the heck of it.

COMIRNATY® (COVID-19 Vaccine, mRNA) is a vaccine approved for active immunization to prevent coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) caused by severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) in individuals 12 years of age and older.

COVID-19 vaccines by Pfizer-BioNTech | Official Site

Learn about updated COVID-19 vaccines from Pfizer and BioNTech.

www.comirnaty.com

 

[John53]

The "vaccines" were only authorized for emergency use by the FDA. Oh, and there's this: "Because there is an urgent need for COVID-19 vaccines and the Food and Drug Administration's (FDA's) vaccine approval process can take years, the FDA first gave emergency use authorization to COVID-19 vaccines based on less data than is typically required."

Debunking myths about COVID-19

Let's set the record straight on some circulating myths about COVID-19 vaccines, prevention and treatment.

www.mayoclinichealthsystem.org

I mean, that's just a start but like I've said, I still got three of the four shots. The third one gave me such a long term massive headache (for DAYS and days) that I didn't get the 4th shot.

As far as I can see you're completely misinterpreting that article, it actually explains how they were safely developed more quickly than normal.

I've had 5 shots, the 5th last week. Felt miserable after shot 3 but that only lasted a couple of hours. No reaction at all to the other 4.

 

[Kathryn]

What's your source for this? The vaccines were tested exactly the same as every other vaccine.

Oh here's more, since you were curious. They vaccines were approved FOR EMERGENCY USE ONLY. Here's a quote from the FDA:
"Under section 564 of the Federal Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act (FD&C Act), when the Secretary of HHS declares that an emergency use authorization is appropriate, FDA may authorize unapproved medical products or unapproved uses of approved medical products to be used in an emergency to diagnose, treat, or prevent serious or life-threatening diseases or conditions caused by CBRN threat agents when certain criteria are met, including there are no adequate, approved, and available alternatives.
Here's more you can read if you like:

Q&A for Comirnaty (COVID-19 Vaccine mRNA)

FDA conducted a thorough evaluation of the data and information submitted in the Biologics License Application (BLA) for Comirnaty before making a determination that the vaccine is safe and effective in preventing COVID-19 in individuals 16 years of age and older.

www.fda.gov

 

[Kathryn]

As far as I can see you're completely misinterpreting that article, it actually explains how they were safely developed more quickly than normal.

I've had 5 shots, the 5th last week. Felt miserable after shot 3 but that only lasted a couple of hours. No reaction at all to the other 4.

They were developed and are authorized to be used for emergency use only. Why is that?

By the way, I'm glad you weathered the shots well. I didn't get the 4th one after having a relentless headache for four days after the third one. I was also sick with a low grade fever after the second one but that went away by the next day. Still - I don't want to be sick and I sure don't want a headache for four days!

I am far from being anti shot and anti vaccine by the way. I have all my vaccinations, all up to date, and get a flu shot every year. I even get a tetanus booster, because they're only good for about ten years! Not at all afraid of needles - in fact, I'm a regular blood donor. Well, platelet donor.

Oh and I didn't "misinterpret" the article - in fact I quoted directly from the article. Of course the FDA and CDC are going to say the shots are safe. But as you can see, individuals respond differently to them.

 

[John53]

They were developed and are authorized to be used for emergency use only. Why is that?

Yes but time has moved on, that has changed. According to your article that only applies to those under 12 now.

 

[Kathryn]

The economy is not "destroyed". Was it harmed? Yes. How much are the millions of lives saved worth? I can tell that you probably do not realize that the vaccines worked.

They didn't work long for me. Though now of course the definition of "vaccine" has been changed as well. So hmmmmm.

 

[Kathryn]

Yes but time has moved on, that has changed. According to your article that only applies to those under 12 now.

Can you quote that? Because I am looking on the Pfizer website and it says nothing about anyone under 12 and the vaccines only being approved for emergency use only in that age range.

 

[Subduction Zone]

They didn't work long for me. Though now of course the definition of "vaccine" has been changed as well. So hmmmmm.

No, once again, just because you caught the disease does not mean that it did not work. Once again, vaccines also ease symptoms if one still gets ill. One of the last persons to catch smallpox was a health worker treating people that caught it. That worker was vaccinated and did survive.