If there is a hell, what percentage of humans should go there?

[Trailblazer]

if i should die,to then be saved from death is my hope, to live again in the kingdom here on earth.

We all die so you will die eventually. That means you cannot be saved from death.
Your only hope is to rise again in a spiritual body and live forever in heaven.
I believe that will happen, as the Bible says.

 

[Ponder This]

IF people are doing what they ought to do, then no one should go there. It's the sort of place that people should avoid.

 

[cataway]

We all die so you will die eventually. That means you cannot be saved from death.
Your only hope is to rise again in a spiritual body and live forever in heaven.
I believe that will happen, as the Bible says.

going to heaven is not even in the equation. and just because you want it does not make it true. for now every one does die ,that's not how it will be in the kingdom government that will be run by Jesus here on earth. millions will live on and go into that kingdom .they are saved from death because they never died . many ,many more will be saved from death by means of the resurrection .

 

[Muffled]

The serpent has been identified in the Christian Greek scriptures as the devil, and opposer of God. If you don't believe that, well, oh well and have a nice day.

I believe that is an assumption. There is plenty enough of evil to go around. I believe the serpent is Hel since she is a shape shifter and would be able to speak. It is most likely the serpent people in general are enemies of the sun people.

 

[Muffled]

If it's the classic idea of eternal torture, then 0%.

It's simply immoral to hand out infinite punishment for finite crimes.

And even if it's just for a certain length of time, proportionate to the gravity of crimes, then still I consider it immoral.

Torture is always immoral. It's an evil act.
I don't see how that helps anyone.

I don't claim to have the answers, but I don't see how torture solves anything.

I believe it is not injustice if the remedy has been offered and refused.

 

[Muffled]

going to heaven is not even in the equation. and just because you want it does not make it true. for now every one does die ,that's not how it will be in the kingdom government that will be run by Jesus here on earth. millions will live on and go into that kingdom .they are saved from death because they never died . many ,many more will be saved from death by means of the resurrection .

I believe Heaven is always available but most people prefer life.

 

[Trailblazer]

going to heaven is not even in the equation. and just because you want it does not make it true. for now every one does die ,that's not how it will be in the kingdom government that will be run by Jesus here on earth. millions will live on and go into that kingdom .they are saved from death because they never died . many ,many more will be saved from death by means of the resurrection .

Living forever on earth is not even in the equation, and just because you want it does not make it true.
Everyone dies physically and that is forever because nobody rises from the dead.

There is no kingdom government that will be run my Jesus because Jesus is never coming back to this world.
Jesus never promised to return to earth, not once in the New Testament.
Jesus said His work was finished here and He was no more in the world.

John 14:19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.

John 17:4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

John 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

John 19:30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.

Jesus never claimed to be a king, and Jesus never said He was coming to rule.

John 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

John 18:37 Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Failure to me would be if God created us to be as automatons / robots. ( No choice in matters )
The gift of free-will choices gives us all the opportunity to show love or not show love.

And if God's intent was to create beings that would freely choose to show him love, then every time someone chooses the opposite would be a failure on God's part.

As soon as Adam sinned God gives us the very first hope at Gen. 3:15 that God will send us a 'seed' (Messiah) to rescue us.
Jesus proved to be Messiah and will rescue us from both sin and enemy death - 1st Cor. 15:24-26

Your word choice suggests you agree with me: what would we need "rescuing" from if God's creation - and therefore God as a creator - had not failed?

 

[Trailblazer]

And if God's intent was to create beings that would freely choose to show him love, then every time someone chooses the opposite would be a failure on God's part.

No, it would be a failure on the part of humans since humans have free will so they can choose to love God or not.

 

[Alien826]

Death in humans is the natural consequence of Adam's having passed his altered biology to his offspring. Only Jesus Christ can remove the penalty, which is imposed but will not always be imposed by God since he showed us by means of the resurrection, and especially the resurrections by means of Jesus Christ. Hellfire or torture after death is not always readily understood but a good, deep study of the scriptures shows that (1) hell is the grave, (2) there is no knowledge after death, and (3) God promises a resurrection.

Birth and death are both necessary if we are to live in a finite world. If we reproduce and don't die, eventually the world fills up with humans (and animals, but lets keep it simple) and we are all standing shoulder to shoulder on the dry land. That's obvious from a naturalistic pov, but what about Biblically?

If Adam and Eve had never "fallen" they could either have had children or not. If not, there would only have been two humans for ever, which doesn't seem to have been God's plan. If they did have children and remained immortal, we have the population problem that I outlined above. There seems therefore to have been a necessity for God to have introduced death regardless of the fall.

How does the Bible address this, if it does?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

No, it would be a failure on the part of humans since humans have free will so they can choose to love God or not.

Free will is irrelevant in this discussion.

Free will doesn't mean that our actions can't be anticipated.

Good sports coaches and generals can anticipate what their opponents will do and be ready for it. Personally, I do traffic forecasting professionally: anticipating the behaviour of humans with "free will" well enough that I can say whether a road network will flow or experience gridlock 10 or 20 years from now.

Do you think God is better or worse than a human being at anticipating the behaviour of humans?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I believe it is not injustice if the remedy has been offered and refused.

Whether you think it's just or not, the whole idea of a "remedy" implies something wrong with God's creation. If there's something wrong with God's creation, this reflects on God's abilities as a creator.

Edit: who is a better clockmaker? One whose clock runs accurately forever, or one whose clock needs occasional adjustments to get it to keep time?

 

[Alien826]

Free will is irrelevant in this discussion.

Not only that, but the free will defense doesn't stand up anyway. I don't want to start that discussion again as it is not the subject of this thread, but basically it is not unreasonable to imagine someone who has free will but never exercises it to do bad things. That person would be no more an automaton than someone who always choses bad things or, like most of us, is somewhere in between.

 

[Trailblazer]

How does the Bible address this, if it does?

The Bible does not address this, nor do Christian beliefs.

 

[Trailblazer]

Free will is irrelevant in this discussion.

Why is it irrelevant?

Free will doesn't mean that our actions can't be anticipated.

The fact that our actions can be anticipated by God does not negate free will.
God's foreknowledge does not cause anything to happen. Our free will choices and actions cause things to happen.

Good sports coaches and generals can anticipate what their opponents will do and be ready for it. Personally, I do traffic forecasting professionally: anticipating the behaviour of humans with "free will" well enough that I can say whether a road network will flow or experience gridlock 10 or 20 years from now.

Do you think God is better or worse than a human being at anticipating the behaviour of humans?

It does not matter one iota because what God anticipates is not what causes anything to happen.
A scientist anticipates that an eclipse will take place at a certain time and location in the future. Does his anticipation of the eclipse cause the eclipse to take place?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Why is it irrelevant?

I just explained why.

In any case, it doesn't change anything if God is still the source of free will. If you're arguing, effectively, that God's design of his creation made failure inevitable, then you're still conceding that God failed.

The fact that our actions can be anticipated by God does not negate free will.
God's foreknowledge does not cause anything to happen. Our free will choices and actions cause things to happen.

It does not matter one iota because what God anticipates is not what causes anything to happen.
A scientist anticipates that an eclipse will take place at a certain time and location in the future. Does his anticipation of the eclipse cause the eclipse to take place?

I have no idea how your analogy is supposed to be relevant.

 

[Trailblazer]

In any case, it doesn't change anything if God is still the source of free will. If you're arguing, effectively, that God's design of his creation made failure inevitable, then you're still conceding that God failed.

By designing humans with free will, God made both success and failure possible and inevitable.

I have no idea how your analogy is supposed to be relevant.

The fact that the eclipse can be anticipated by scientists is not what causes the eclipse to take place.
Likewise, the fact that God can anticipate the actions of humans is not what causes those actions to take place.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

I believe it is not injustice if the remedy has been offered and refused.

Then I can only say that you don't understand what justice, or morality for that matter, is actually about.


This is like saying that it is "just" to refuse treatment to someone suffering from covid after they refused free vaccination.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

And if God's intent was to create beings that would freely choose to show him love, then every time someone chooses the opposite would be a failure on God's part.
Your word choice suggests you agree with me: what would we need "rescuing" from if God's creation - and therefore God as a creator - had not failed?

There are many parents who have more than one child and sometimes some are loving and some are not.
I met a man at a campsite and noticed how well behaved his children were and mentioned that to him.
His reply startled me because he said he also had a son in jail.
Did that make him a failure as a father ___________
We see in Scripture that God had two (2) Son/son's. One turned out well, one did not.
Jesus proved to be the Son who turned out well, and Satan proved to be the son who did not turn out well.
Jesus did Not prove their Father to be a failure.
Jesus will vindicate his Father and his Father's name will be hallowed - John 17:6; John 17:26

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

By designing humans with free will, God made both success and failure possible and inevitable.

Right: so something less than full success. God's creation fails to entirely reflect what he intended for it.

The fact that the eclipse can be anticipated by scientists is not what causes the eclipse to take place.
Likewise, the fact that God can anticipate the actions of humans is not what causes those actions to take place.

If God designed and created humans knowing full well what they'd do, then of course he caused those actions.