NDE- Near Death Experience
How does a brain do what you are suggesting?
Did you not read the study I provided?
They were unconscious, brain anaesthetised, eyes closed.
So? That doesn't address my point.
You can take away all but the first conclusion.
-That consciousness is separable from the brain as a "disembodied mind."
So this one?
How did you determine that? Just from these cherry-picked reports alone?
-That there is some afterlife in which these disembodied minds live on (as 'spirits'?)
-This afterlife takes place in, and was created by the specific god of the Bible that you worship.
-That having an "OBE experience" is direct evidence for your religious beliefs.
-That a brain is at it's most lucid at the time it is dying.
So you claim to not to believe any of this, besides your assertions to the contrary?
-So you think that someone should be able to see a mind. What would that look like?
You're the one claiming that minds can exist without brains. I'm asking (apparently endless times) how you've demonstrated that.
I don't think minds exist outside of brains and I've seen no evidence to indicate they could. And I've given reasons and evidence to demonstrate that minds are tied to brains. You have provided virtually no response to those.
You're the one claiming they are separable, so you're the one who needs to provide evidence of that. It's not up to me to provide evidence for something I don't accept.
So you are saying that these NDE OBEs are useless as evidence that minds can exist outside the body because there is no 'other' evidence that minds can exist outside the body....................
There is no evidence that the two things exist independently of each other. Including NDE or OBE experiences. Hence the reason I keep asking you to demonstrate that minds and bodies exist separately from each other.
so we'll ignore the OBE experiences as evidence and say the same thing when something else comes up that is evidence of minds outside the body.
You've yet to demonstrate that these experiences indicate that minds exist outside of brains. Never mind the rest of the baggage you believe stems from that.
-Because we don't know that a disembodied mind is going to function badly when separated from a broken brain, your end statement means nothing.
If anything these OBEs show that the mind when separated from the malfunctioning brain, works fine.
What it shows is what we already know about brains - that they attempt to piece together missing information after-the-fact, based on what it already knows about our environment. Our memories aren't photographic recalls of our experiences, you know.
But again., you don't just get to claim that minds are being separated from brains in so-called NDE experiences. That's not a demonstrable fact. That is your claim.
-Yes NDEs mean "Near" Death Experiences.
-Then dismiss the stories that have no basis in fact.
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Yes it is an experience which many people have and it is a verifiable experience. Yet many people, including yourself, refuse to think that OBEs are possible.
Oh, I believe people actually experience something in this state of NDE. Just like they do when having dreams or hallucinations.
But you've yet to tie it into anything demonstrating that minds can exist outside of bodies.
That is the only thing I am concluding really, that OBEs are possible. That the evidence shows that.
It's not though. Your claim comes with a ton of baggage that you also can't demonstrate.
You already know the implications of this in relation to minds, spirits etc and it upsets your whole world view, hence the stubborn resistance to seeing the evidence.
And I say this is an exercise in psychological projection. You have no idea what my worldview is, and you're just trying to shirk your burden of proof.
I work in the field of psychology. So my view on this is based on what I understand about how brains work. How about you?
When you can demonstrate the existence of spirits and disembodied minds, please let me know, as that would be something I would be quite interested in. Despite what you think, I am deeply interested in anything having to do with the brain. We've still got a lot to learn.