Couldn't have said it better myself...

[Brian2]

That is your faith. Not mine. We have been here before. You are not wrong or other of those words. We are just different in how we have faith in God.

You can't have faith in what you do not believe.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

You can't have faith in what you do not believe.

You are not me, so you don't decide how I do my cognition and feelings.

 

[Brian2]

I think you mean the whole of the NT.

Christianity relies on the accuracy of historical texts, that were chosen to be included in the Bible canon. It reflects the beliefs of a particular group of people.
It is not claimed to be a Divine revelation, but it assumes that the NT authors were correct in their beliefs. That they were "Divinely inspired".
Jesus was definitely Divinely inspired, imo.
The NT authors were not prophets or even disciples .. however pious and well-meaning they were, there is room for doubt.

Unfortunately, not much information about the early Christians survives, due to the siege of Jerusalem.
What we do know, is that it started off with a group of Jewish Christians, and ended up as a gentile church, that was manipulated by Roman Emperors.

satan is always active. he exploits our weaknesses. he corrupts.
..but God's plan cannot be thwarted. God is Greater.

Jesus words are said by Jesus to be forever. The gospels has those words, the ones that have survived. Jesus promised His disciples that the Holy Spirit would remind them of all that He had said.
If Jesus did not die and rise then God tricked all of Jesus followers and they included things in the gospels which just did not happen. God was thwarting His own plans. But no, the gospel has survived as it is because God's plans have succeeded in presenting the gospel to the world.
We know enough about the early Church in the Acts of the Apostles and the Epistles and in the writings of other early Christians, the ones that agree with Jesus words and the teachings of the church.
That the later church ended up corrupt is neither here nor there. Jesus said that He would be with the Church to the end of the age and whether the church has been corrupt in that time or not does not alter Jesus promise. He has been with the Church to bring the Church back on track when it goes astray.

 

[Brian2]

You are not me, so you don't decide how I do my cognition and feelings.

Yes I know.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Yes I know.

Good. That is a start.

 

[PearlSeeker]

It is just blind faith because the Bible says it.
Does that mean that it is wrong?
Have you seen modern history books about the Bible and the gospel of Jesus and how it is all myth? How could my faith be anything but blind faith which goes against the wisdom of the world?
Do you have a faith? What is it? Is it a reasonable faith or blind faith?
Why?

There are many different supposed divine revelations (and different interpretations). Why choose one over the other? No one has answered this question yet.

I used to believe in Christianity because I was raised in a Christian family. When I did some research what we actually believe and on what basis I realized how primitive were the standards of history, truth, authorship... in the times when the Bible was created and myth was the norm.

The greatest thing (purpose or vocation of life) I know is love. This is where I agree with the NT Bible. Beyond this I think it's reasonable to believe there is some fundamental reality. In my experience this reality isn't behaving/revealing itself as the Bible suggests - as an omni... person who you can have conversation with...

 

[PearlSeeker]

Because my blind faith works for me, where as other faiths don't. I still use reason, not just objective reason or even logic or evidence.

Yes, this is the pragmatist position. Ideas separated from life have no value but ideas which do work may or may not be true.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Yes, this is the pragmatist position. Ideas separated from life have no value but ideas which do work may or may not be true.

Well, I am skeptic so I understand truth and life differently than you.

 

[muhammad_isa]

If Jesus did not die and rise then God tricked all of Jesus followers and they included things in the gospels which just did not happen..

No, God didn't trick anybody.
Trinitarian Christianity was not the only belief, it was one of many.
Arians, for example, did not believe that Jesus is God.
That would mean, in turn, that death and resurrection is not the pillar of faith that trinitarian Christians insist on.

I think that we all agree that the shema is the main pillar of faith.
Jesus is quoted saying that when questioned in the NT.

We know enough about the early Church in the Acts of the Apostles and the Epistles and in the writings of other early Christians, the ones that agree with Jesus words and the teachings of the church..

It wouldn't have been included in the Bible canon if it didn't agree.

 

[InChrist]

Yeah, but even then it might not be the God you have faith in.

True, that’s a possibility because people can and do seem to put their faith in a myriad of gods, or no gods or God at all. Yet, if there is One Creator God whom all will come face to face with after death... then this One God’s existence will be very meaningful.

“Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. 14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.”
Revelation 20:11-15

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

True, that’s a possibility because people can and do seem to put their faith in a myriad of gods, or no gods or God at all. Yet, if there is One Creator God whom all will come face to face with after death... then this One God’s existence will be very meaningful.

...

Yeah, I agree. And depending of the form of God/Metaphysical Idealism I could go to Hell, Heaven, even for at least one version still die, be reborn or released from rebirth.
So I don't do that game any more of my God is correct and your is not.

 

[Brian2]

There are many different supposed divine revelations (and different interpretations). Why choose one over the other? No one has answered this question yet.

Jesus fulfilled OT prophecies and has witness accounts in the NT of what happened with His life and death and resurrection.

I used to believe in Christianity because I was raised in a Christian family. When I did some research what we actually believe and on what basis I realized how primitive were the standards of history, truth, authorship... in the times when the Bible was created and myth was the norm.

The standard for prophecy in the OT was that it is did not happen, the prophet was a fake.

 

[Brian2]

No, God didn't trick anybody.
Trinitarian Christianity was not the only belief, it was one of many.
Arians, for example, did not believe that Jesus is God.
That would mean, in turn, that death and resurrection is not the pillar of faith that trinitarian Christians insist on.

I think that we all agree that the shema is the main pillar of faith.
Jesus is quoted saying that when questioned in the NT.

Arius came late and did not have any predecessor groups to point to as the real church.
The shema does not contradict the trinity.
Jesus death and resurrection are central to Christian faith.

 

[muhammad_isa]

Arius came late and did not have any predecessor groups to point to as the real church.

That is a trinitarian belief.
Clearly, many thought otherwise.
Constantine himself was baptised by an Arian shortly before his death, and many Emperors were Arians.
Trinitarian Emperors eventually outlawed Arian belief, destroying texts and waging war against them.

The shema does not contradict the trinity.

No .. because one plays with philosophy, so as to make it so.
In the process, we end up with a "mystery", as to how Jesus and the Father can both be God, despite Jesus praying to the Father.

 

[SkepticThinker]

You said it is immoral, I ask you why and you refuse to answer. OK

I answered you about at least two or three times.

It's immoral because it doesn't provide any restitution to the victim.

 

[PearlSeeker]

Jesus fulfilled OT prophecies and has witness accounts in the NT of what happened with His life and death and resurrection.

The standard for prophecy in the OT was that it is did not happen, the prophet was a fake.

Quran is considered literal word of God (God's correction of the Bible)... "Shruti" texts are considered revealed by some Hindus...

What if some text other than Bible is the real divine revelation? How do you know?
What if none is? How do you know?
How do you know OT patriarchs and prophets were not mythical figures?

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

He did not deserve to die because He is sinless

He may have been innocent of the charges, which I don’t believe given the story, but he is not characterized as sinless. He sins.

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

justice require death for sin

If that were true that would be the only punishment in the Bible and yet it is not the only one.

 

[Subduction Zone]

No not really BUT
We sinned and rejected God and deserved the wages of sin, death, an He reached out for us in love and willingness to suffer for us.

Sorry God, if he exists, never revealed himself to those people. It is not rejection to lack a belief in someone that does not appear to exist.

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

As with Adam and Eve, if they were not prepared to acknowledge God as the one they should be trusting and obeying

But God lied to them