Article on using Geomagnetism in Archeological dating

[Subduction Zone]

Who here is qualified to make that assessment?

I asked that question too, I will say that it appears to be "real science". I know enough of the basics to understand how it is possible. One would have to be able to combine the art of very accurate surveying along with archaeology, and geophysics. That would be a rare combination of talent in any one individual it appears that it would take a team effort to accomplish this.

 

[Jose Fly]

I asked that question too, I will say that it appears to be "real science". I know enough of the basics to understand how it is possible. One would have to be able to combine the art of very accurate surveying along with archaeology, and geophysics. That would be a rare combination of talent in any one individual it appears that it would take a team effort to accomplish this.

Exactly. Why would one go to a specifically religious forum and ask whether geomagnetism is a valid method? Why not a cooking forum? Or a golf forum?

 

[Hockeycowboy]

Seems to me that earthquakes after an event could give an inaccurate assessment.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Seems to me that earthquakes after an event could give an inaccurate assessment.

That would depend. Have you ever been through an earthquake? I have no idea of how severe that Earthquakes are there. But if they are mostly like the ones we have in Washington sate they are probably not severe enough to cause a difference.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

That would depend. Have you ever been through an earthquake? I have no idea of how severe that Earthquakes are there. But if they are mostly like the ones we have in Washington sate they are probably not severe enough to cause a difference.

Well, it’s a seismic area

Seismic hazard map of the Middle East - Bulletin of Earthquake Engineering

I’d be skeptical.

Especially over the span of time.
Several earthquakes could render any type of dating useless.

 

[Shaul]

It appears to be, but why ask any of us? None of us are experts in the field. I can give you a rough idea of how it works and that is all.

It was a question to the forum. Some here may have information or expertise. As a discussion forum sharing information and knowledge is a key part of its purpose.

 

[Shaul]

Who here is qualified to make that assessment?

We won't know if we don't ask the questions. If you aren't, let it go. See if someone else can answer the question.
Why the hostility?

 

[Shaul]

I am not a scientist, but the actual method used makes sense. But it has to be used in context as the article points out. Why do you ask?

I ask questions when I don't know about something. It's a thing I do.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Well, it’s a seismic area

Seismic hazard map of the Middle East - Bulletin of Earthquake Engineering

I’d be skeptical.

Especially over the span of time.
Several earthquakes could render any type of dating useless.

You should have quit when you were behind. You took a weak statemen and made it worthless. Earthquakes are not going to affect radiometric ages, though none were done for these materials.

And a random article about earthquakes is not going to help you. I gave your link a quick scan and it had nothing about how severe the earthquakes were or how they affected the local strata. If you want to claim that earthquakes would make a difference you would need to show how. As it is your argument can be refuted with a handwave.

 

[Shaul]

Yes, the title of the thread matches the article.

It is not junk science. The article does not go into detail so I can give you some. The magnetic poles of the Earth roam a bit. You have probably heard of this. By using various dating techniques the locations of the poles have been well tracked. As this article pointed out high temps can cause bricks to lock in the direction to magnetic north at the time of the fire. By carefully noting the bricks orientation it can be taken to a lab and the direction of the magnetic field within it can be measured. That direction is matched to the records of where the poles have been and that will give a time of the event.

Any questions?

I have so many questions. Probably because of my science and engineering background. Some questions would be: Are the historically dated positions of the Earth's magnetic poles unique enough and certain enough to make this practical? If so, for over which periods/epochs? Are there natural conditions which can compromise the measurement? For example, would a lightning strike in the proximity cause an issue? How are local land movements taken into account? (I.e. land subsidence or ground shifting reorienting the materials) I don't expect answers for these questions, and I have other questions. I am just seeking more input to increase my growing understanding of Geomagnetism as used in archeology.

 

[Subduction Zone]

It was a question to the forum. Some here may have information or expertise. As a discussion forum sharing information and knowledge is a key part of its purpose.

There may be, but to do this by oneself would require quite a bit of knowledge from widely disparate fields of study. I don't think anyone here has the skills necessary. I could be wrong, but I would be rather surprised if anyone did work like this.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I have so many questions. Probably because of my science and engineering background. Some questions would be: Are the historically dated positions of the Earth's magnetic poles unique enough and certain enough to make this practical? If so, for over which periods/epochs? Are there natural conditions which can compromise the measurement? For example, would a lightning strike in the proximity cause an issue? How are local land movements taken into account? (I.e. land subsidence or ground shifting reorienting the materials) I don't expect answers for these questions, and I have other questions. I am just seeking more input to increase my growing understanding of Geomagnetism as used in archeology.

You would want to talk about an expert in the field. But we are only talking about one epoch here. They are using this to date objects in the Holocene. That is the current epoch and started eleven thousand years ago at the end of the latest glaciation.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Don’t blame me for your presumptive ineptitude, as usual.

Now you know that is not true. When it comes to your magic Bible beliefs those have been easily refuted. You may not understand the refutation but that is not my problem.

I always say if you want to learn how we know that your beliefs about Genesis are not true I will be glad to help you. Unfortunately you have been listening to known liars and you have chosen to believe those obvious lies.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Is it ready as a practical tool or does it need further development to be useful and practical?

Yes, it seems it doesn't need improvement.

 

[HonestJoe]

Is this junk science or not?

The underlying science is valid and relatively straight forwards so this is a reliable tool for archaeology. It has been used for several decades in various contexts.

Like all tools though, the validity of the results relies on the tool being used correctly, and the interpretation of the results in the context of other evidence needs to be measured and honest. That can be particularly problematic with Biblical archaeology, especially with how it is often presented to the general public.

 

[Jose Fly]

We won't know if we don't ask the questions. If you aren't, let it go. See if someone else can answer the question.
Why the hostility?

But why ask the question in a religious forum? If you want informed answers from qualified people, why not ask the question at a science site?

 

[Shaul]

But why ask the question in a religious forum? If you want informed answers from qualified people, why not ask the question at a science site?

This is the Science and Religion forum. Science and religion aren't mutually exclusive. Geomagnetism is germane to both science and religion. This is quite the correct forum to debate how it affects both science and religion. The debate should have inputs from a variety of people and not necessarily particular experts.

Again, why the hostility?

 

[Jose Fly]

This is the Science and Religion forum. Science and religion aren't mutually exclusive. Geomagnetism is germane to both science and religion. This is quite the correct forum to debate how it affects both science and religion. The debate should have inputs from a variety of people and not necessarily particular experts.

Again, why the hostility?

But you didn't ask about the implications of the conclusions, you asked if the methodology was valid, which again I have to say is a question more suited for a science site than a religious one. Or you could do even better by simply contacting the scientists who conducted the study. I believe their contact info is available.

BTW, this isn't "hostility". It's asking a simple question and providing a suggestion that should help you better answer the question you're asking.

EDIT: Turns out it's trivially easy to find the contact info of the main author of the study. CLICK HERE to see his email address. The paper also describes the methodology you're asking about, which should also help answer your question.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

All the news that's fit to reprint ...

 

[Shaul]

But you didn't ask about the implications of the conclusions, you asked if the methodology was valid, which again I have to say is a question more suited for a science site than a religious one. Or you could do even better by simply contacting the scientists who conducted the study. I believe their contact info is available.

BTW, this isn't "hostility". It's asking a simple question and providing a suggestion that should help you better answer the question you're asking.

EDIT: Turns out it's trivially easy to find the contact info of the main author of the study. CLICK HERE to see his email address. The paper also describes the methodology you're asking about, which should also help answer your question.

One purpose of this thread is to get input from a wide spectrum. It isn't to just get the input from the experts on it. You seem to miss that. So, yes, you seem hostile to getting perspectives from non-experts about it. Why I don't know. But at this point I am not sure I care why you are so hostile. Have a nice day.