Homosexuality and religious.

[CG Didymus]

I think it's deceptive because the only version of those religions that you respect is the Baha'i version or interpretation. When people of some other faith (or of no faith) walk by, they might actually think that the Baha'i faith respects other religions. For example, in my case, seeing the Aum might make a Hindu think that the Baha'i faith accepts Hinduism, and all the many Gods of Hinduism, not just your one true God (that I don't even believe in). But it doesn't. The fact is that it doesn't. If it did it wouldn't proselytise amongst other faiths. Actions (proselytising) speak louder than words. (all the political niceness without meaning it).
Of all Baha'i practices, the attempts to deceive is right up there to be counted as one of the more disliked. It still comes after homophobia, in my book though.

As if they know or care what the symbol represents. Taking the symbol and taking Krishna and pretending that makes everything okay, is deceptive.

 

[Trailblazer]

I think it's deceptive because the only version of those religions that you respect is the Baha'i version or interpretation.

Likewise, the only version of those religions that you respect is your interpretation, and that goes for every single religious believer.... they only accept their interpretation of their scriptures, yet those interpretations vary widely. Who can ever know which interpretation is actually correct?

 

[CG Didymus]

Those symbols are part of my chosen Faith, which is inclusive of all the Messengers and Prophets and martyers and saints and followers past and present.

It requires a different choice in our frames of reference, other than that it teaches the same virtues and morals all God given Faiths do.

Regards Tony

But we all know that you don't really believe in any of those other religions. Again, name one that Baha'is can say they agree with everything that other religion practices and teaches? Baha'is have to make several "adjustments" to the teachings and Scriptures of those other religions to make them fit.

It's obviously fine for Baha'is, but why would it be fine with the believers in those other religions? Can Baha'is see how it can be seen as rude and deceptive? If Baha'is can't, then maybe they are trying hard enough. Which might be part of the problem. Baha'is can't see the other person's pov. Actually, I think Baha'is can, but they'd rather talk about how they see things... Since Baha'is think their beliefs are the truth.

 

[Trailblazer]

We can all see that they don't really believe in any of the other religions.

We believe that those religions were revealed by God at one time but we do not believe in the corrupted versions of those religions. We believe that these older religions have all been corrupted by man over time and many of their beliefs are absolutely false. But then you already know that is what we believe.

“This is the Day when the loved ones of God should keep their eyes directed towards His Manifestation, and fasten them upon whatsoever that Manifestation may be pleased to reveal. Certain traditions of bygone ages rest on no foundations whatever, while the notions entertained by past generations, and which they have recorded in their books, have, for the most part, been influenced by the desires of a corrupt inclination. Thou dost witness how most of the commentaries and interpretations of the words of God, now current amongst men, are devoid of truth. Their falsity hath, in some cases, been exposed when the intervening veils were rent asunder. They themselves have acknowledged their failure in apprehending the meaning of any of the words of God.” Gleanings, pp. 171-172
.

 

[CG Didymus]

In that metephor the Manifestations are the referee, they do not play and are not after a trophy.

They are ensuring the rules are abided by, and if one continues to constantly break the rules, they are simply cast out of the match, some never choose to participate.

Regards Tony

When have the rules of any person that Baha'is call a manifestation have been abided by? Let's take Christianity for an example. Once they gained power, did they go by Jesus' rules? Or did they made up their own rules and forced people to abide by them. And you're right, they took people out of the game sometimes. Where was Jesus, the referee?

 

[Trailblazer]

Again, name one that Baha'is can say they agree with everything that other religion practices and teaches?

Name one Christian that can say they agree with everything that the other Christian practices and teaches?
Name one Muslim that can say they agree with everything that the other Muslim practices and teaches?
Name one Hindu that can say they agree with everything that the other Hindu practices and teaches?
Name one Buddhist that can say they agree with everything that the other Buddhist practices and teaches?

 

[CG Didymus]

That is the lower nature of humanity, if they turn to the animal condition.

Satan, or the Devil, or the Anti Christ is manifested in every age.

It is the person that recognises the Messenger and then tries to take the power for their own selves.

I see the fallen angels is really any of us when we fall short of the standard of the Word of God. We can all be angels, yet we choose this material world over the Spirit that is of God.

Regards Tony

And that's the Baha'i interpretation. Why did Christians think there was a Satan and demons? Why did the NT say that Jesus cast demons out of people? I'm okay with it being not true, but again, I think the NT writers thought Satan and demons were real and wrote about them as if they were real. So, not that the readers misinterpreted the NT and took a symbolic story as being literal, but the story was wrong... That is came from beliefs held in those times.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Again, as is common, I have no idea what you're trying to say. I guess it's 50/50. But for sure I do understand your words more often that I understand your prophet's. But you know me, I'm just a non-Baha'i simpleton who could never grasp much at all, let alone the words of a Godman.

We are able to consider a unity in our diversity, find the balance in virtues and morals.

Regards Tony

But we all know that you don't really believe in any of those other religions. Again, name one that Baha'is can say they agree with everything that other religion practices and teaches? Baha'is have to make several "adjustments" to the teachings and Scriptures of those other religions to make them fit

Why do you keep insisting that I beleive how you see I should, or others see I should?

Why am I no able to embrace the Message of Baha’u’llah in the light I see it is intended, which is inclusive of all Messengers? That does not mean it will include all past practices and interpretation. As the Bible says, all things are made new.

Yes, as a Baha'i, we do have some different frames of references, from others who practice some of these faiths may have, but that does not need to divide, it is not an us and them, it can be a unity in our diversity.

Regards Tony

 

[CG Didymus]

We are able to consider a unity in our diversity, find the balance in virtues and morals.

Regards Tony


Why do you keep insisting that I beleive how you see I should, or others see I should?

Why am I no able to embrace the Message of Baha’u’llah in the light I see it is intended, which is inclusive of all Messengers? That does not mean it will include all past practices and interpretation. As the Bible says, all things are made new.

Yes, as a Baha'i, we do have some different frames of references, from others who practice some of these faiths may have, but that does not need to divide, it is not an us and them, it can be a unity in our diversity.

Regards Tony

Insisting? Or questioning your beliefs?

But we all know that you don't really believe in any of those other religions. Again, name one that Baha'is can say they agree with everything that other religion practices and teaches? Baha'is have to make several "adjustments" to the teachings and Scriptures of those other religions to make them fit.

You don't have to answer, because I know the answer... Baha'is don't believe that they have the truth anymore. But Baha'is don't really believe in any of the Scriptures of Hinduism and Buddhism and barely belief in the Bible and the NT. And maybe, Baha'is believe in the Quran.

It's obviously fine for Baha'is, but why would it be fine with the believers in those other religions?

Again insisting? No, I said it is obviously fine for Baha'is. I know why you believe it, because that is what your religion teaches. And to Baha'is, their religion is the newest and is the infallible truth from God. I don't believe that. Is it okay to challenge some of your claims and beliefs?

 

[TransmutingSoul]

And that's the Baha'i interpretation. Why did Christians think there was a Satan and demons? Why did the NT say that Jesus cast demons out of people? I'm okay with it being not true, but again, I think the NT writers thought Satan and demons were real and wrote about them as if they were real. So, not that the readers misinterpreted the NT and took a symbolic story as being literal, but the story was wrong... That is came from beliefs held in those times.

Why did people think the earth is flat, even when there were others saying it was not?

Luckily we now have the bounty of science, allowing alternative reasoning.

Regards Tony

 

[dybmh]

Why do you think that is rude?

It implies endorsement. But it's not endorsed. It's like an athlete who puts someone else's sponsor on their jersey even though they're not the endorsed athlete. Or if food packaging includes an "organic" seal but it's really only 50% ( or less ) organic ingredients.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

You don't have to answer, because I know the answer... Baha'is don't believe that they have the truth anymore. But Baha'is don't really believe in any of the Scriptures of Hinduism and Buddhism and barely belief in the Bible and the NT. And maybe, Baha'is believe in the Quran.

I am able to read past scriptures and determine what truth I see in them CG.

As a Baha’i I see much Truth in them. I do not need to mould my faith to suit past practices and doctrine, I am able to choose to see it all in a different frame of reference, and appreciate the beauty they all contain, for all humanity.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

It implies endorsement. But it's not endorsed. It's like an athlete who puts someone else's sponsor on their jersey even though they're not the endorsed athlete. Or if food packaging includes an "organic" seal but it's really only 50% ( or less ) organic ingredients.

I offer It is adorsement in the organic form, without the added ingredients or the genetic modifications. It is going back to the plant the original seeds

Regards Tony

 

[dybmh]

Those symbols are part of my chosen Faith, which is inclusive of all the Messengers and Prophets and martyers and saints and followers past and present.

It requires a different choice in our frames of reference, other than that it teaches the same virtues and morals all God given Faiths do.

Taking someone else's symbols and redefining them to suit your religion is rude. It really does border on cultural appropriation.

 

[dybmh]

Maybe it is about acceptance of our acceptance?

Regards Tony

Allow me to try to explain?

If you accepted 100% of the beliefs then it's true to say, "it's about acceptance of our acceptance". But if it's only a small part of the beliefs accepted then it's not "acceptance" it's flattery. Really what you said is incomplete, ( and I think it's intentional ). To make it true it would need to be said: "It's about acceptance of our PARTIAL acceptance."

It's this ommission of details making Baha'i sound more all inclusive and more all accepting that is a problem. It's the same thing that happened with the UHJ and women's equality.

 

[dybmh]

We believe that those religions were revealed by God at one time but we do not believe in the corrupted versions of those religions. We believe that these older religions have all been corrupted by man over time and many of their beliefs are absolutely false. But then you already know that is what we believe.

Yes! What I think we're all trying to say is: This ^^ is the opposite of what the inclusion of other religion's symbols mean. So the inclusion of these religious symbols is deceptive out of context. ( aka rude )

 

[dybmh]

Name one Christian that can say they agree with everything that the other Christian practices and teaches?
Name one Muslim that can say they agree with everything that the other Muslim practices and teaches?
Name one Hindu that can say they agree with everything that the other Hindu practices and teaches?
Name one Buddhist that can say they agree with everything that the other Buddhist practices and teaches?

OK. This is a good point. But. The Baha'i faith takes steps to eliminate factions and denominations from starting up. Fair is fair, other religions should be allowed to take their own steps to reduce spin-offs from their religion. Part of that is discouraging other groups from using their symbols and texts and reinterpretting them. If the Baha'i faith is cautious about spin-offs, then so can other religions.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Taking someone else's symbols and redefining them to suit your religion is rude. It really does border on cultural appropriation.

I see they are born of the Love of God, and as such, we do not own them.

So the opinion you offer, is not mine.

Regards Tony

 

[dybmh]

Why do you keep insisting that I beleive how you see I should, or others see I should?

Why am I no able to embrace the Message of Baha’u’llah in the light I see it is intended, which is inclusive of all Messengers? That does not mean it will include all past practices and interpretation. As the Bible says, all things are made new.

Yes, as a Baha'i, we do have some different frames of references, from others who practice some of these faiths may have, but that does not need to divide, it is not an us and them, it can be a unity in our diversity.

You're asking 'why'. Why should you listen to the other religions when they are telling you they are insulted? Because, making peace with people requires compromise. Your position is rigid and uncompromising. If you want unity in diverstiy you need to come to the negotiating table ready to give up somethings which are important to you. In this case it's using other religion's symbols without permission. It's a version of theft.

 

[dybmh]

I offer It is adorsement in the organic form, without the added ingredients or the genetic modifications. It is going back to the plant the original seeds

Regards Tony

Then you need to come up with your own symbols to communicate that.