Homosexuality and religious.

[Trailblazer]

That ^^ is all there is. This is God's law per Baha'u'llah. Nothing here about Gay Marriage.

The Baháʼí Faith has an emphasis on what it describes as traditional family values, and marriage between a man and a woman is the only form of sexual relationship permitted for Baháʼís.
Baháʼí views on homosexuality - Wikipedia

From Bahá'u'lláh's book of laws:

“The Bahá’í teachings on sexual morality centre on marriage and the family as the bedrock of the whole structure of human society and are designed to protect and strengthen that divine institution. Bahá’í law thus restricts permissible sexual intercourse to that between a man and the woman to whom he is married.”
The Kitáb-i-Aqdas, p. 223

 

[CG Didymus]

Submission to the Word, requires actual words. Otherwise it's submission to the whims of leadership.

And we all know some people have made claims to prophethood and lead their followers down a path to nowhere. Why did those people submit to them? I'd imagine it sounded good to them... until the pitcher of Kool-Aid came out.

 

[CG Didymus]

It appears the Law of Baha’u’llah is reflected in what the Bible offered will.come to pass.

What other proof are you needing?

Regards Tony

Quoting the Bible doesn't mean that it is being quoted properly.

Zechariah 14:9 - And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.

Who is the "Lord" that Zechariah is talking about? God? Jesus? Baha'u'llah?

Romans 1:22-32

The problem with Romans. Was that Jesus, the manifestation, saying those things? No, it was Paul. Christians take his words to be the infallible truth from God, but why would the Baha'is? And I know of one Baha'i here that doesn't think much of Paul.

One can see why the Churches struggle with this topic. If one wants to change what is recorded, one must make themselves a giver of God's Word, as one would need to alter what is written.

So, is Paul's writings the infallible word of God? What usually happens is that Baha'is and others quote only the parts of the Bible and the NT that fits with what they are trying to prove. And, as we all know, some verses in the Bible and NT that don't support the Baha'i beliefs are reinterpreted in a way to make them fit.

But who is left here on this thread that believes what Paul says is from God?

 

[CG Didymus]

That is a challenge for you CG. Baha'u'llah asks you to determine if he was Trustworthy and Truthful.

Baha'u'llah was never convicted as untrustworthy nor untruthful. In fact Baha'u'llah in his tablets challenged the authorities to.prove he was untruthful and untrustworthy, yet they did and could not.

Therein lays a key to submission under God's Laws.

Regards Tony

This topic about what he claims about homosexuality isn't believed by some of us to be trustworthy. You trust him, fine. Then you and the other Baha'is should live by all the laws and beliefs. But I wouldn't be surprised if not one person lives up to all of them. And that lots of Baha'is knowingly and continually break some of the laws.

 

[CG Didymus]

Either way, it's still human interpretation. You said "interpretation is Law". I said "Baha'i law is human interpretation." We're saying the same thing.

If you say, "the interpretation is God's Law" or "God's Law is the interpretation" that, on the other hand, misrepresents what Baha'u'llah said about marriage.

Here's what Baha'u'llah said about marriage:

It hath been laid down in the Bayán that marriage is dependent upon the consent of both parties. Desiring to establish love, unity and harmony amidst Our servants, We have conditioned it, once the couple’s wish is known, upon the permission of their parents, lest enmity and rancour should arise amongst them. And in this We have yet other purposes. Thus hath Our commandment been ordained.

No marriage may be contracted without payment of a dowry, which hath been fixed for city-dwellers at nineteen mithqáls of pure gold, and for village-dwellers at the same amount in silver. Whoso wisheth to increase this sum, it is forbidden him to exceed the limit of ninety-five mithqáls. Thus hath the command been writ in majesty and power. If he content himself, however, with a payment of the lowest level, it shall be better for him according to the Book. God, verily, enricheth whomsoever He willeth through both heavenly and earthly means, and He, in truth, hath power over all things.

Bahá'í Reference Library - The Kitáb-i-Aqdas, Pages 34-49

• Marriage is not obligatory, but is highly recommended.
• Only married couples may engage in sexual activity.
• Both partners must be at least 15 years of age at the time of engagement. (The civil laws of their country must be obeyed)
• Marriage is conditional on the consent of both parties and their parents.
• Marriage with non-Baháʼís is permitted.
• The period of engagement must not exceed ninety-five days (not currently universally applicable).
• A marriage is conditional on the payment of a dowry. The payment, if the husband lives in a city, is nineteen mithqáls (approx. 2.22 troy ounces) of pure gold, and if the husband lives in a village the same amount in silver. However, it is preferable to content oneself with the lowest level that is nineteen mithqáls of silver for both city and village dwellers. Baháʼu'lláh also set a maximum permitted dowry amount of 95 mithqáls (approx. 11.1 troy ounces). (Not currently universally applicable)

Baháʼí marriage - Wikipedia
​

That ^^ is all there is. This is God's law per Baha'u'llah. Nothing here about Gay Marriage.

What's all this dowry stuff? Dirt poor Baha'is aren't going to have gold or silver. I wonder if they could give the in-laws a farm animal or something? But really, to me, a dowry doesn't seem to make sense in modern society.

 

[Vinayaka]

What's all this dowry stuff? Dirt poor Baha'is aren't going to have gold or silver. I wonder if they could give the in-laws a farm animal or something? But really, to me, a dowry doesn't seem to make sense in modern society.

The more you dig, the more you uncover. But dowry in and of itself is a great study.

 

[dybmh]

The Baháʼí Faith has an emphasis on what it describes as traditional family values, and marriage between a man and a woman is the only form of sexual relationship permitted for Baháʼís.
Baháʼí views on homosexuality - Wikipedia

From Bahá'u'lláh's book of laws:

“The Bahá’í teachings on sexual morality centre on marriage and the family as the bedrock of the whole structure of human society and are designed to protect and strengthen that divine institution. Bahá’í law thus restricts permissible sexual intercourse to that between a man and the woman to whom he is married.”
The Kitáb-i-Aqdas, p. 223

Thank you, that's what I was looking for.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

But really, to me, a dowry doesn't seem to make sense in modern society.

I would offer you have not really thought about that comment.

Marriage payments, as well as dowry or bride price, are still in use in 75% of countries globally

Bride price or dowry?.

Even in Australia there is wedding budget expectations.

Regards Tony

 

[Vinayaka]

I would offer you have not really thought about that comment.

Marriage payments, as well as dowry or bride price, are still in use in 75% of countries globally

Regards Tony

And it varies widely from place to place. The wiki article is informative.

 

[Truthseeker]

I would offer you have not really thought about that comment.

Marriage payments, as well as dowry or bride price, are still in use in 75% of countries globally

Bride price or dowry?.

Even in Australia there is wedding budget expectations.

Regards Tony

This is ridiculous. I tried to see what you said here, and I got a messgae that I have you on ignore. I never put you on ignore! The problem is now fixed.. However, I still can't have a private conversation with you or see your profile.

 

[loverofhumanity]

I don't know about the rest of the claims, but this one sounds fishy. So, prior to Baha'u'llah nobody ever made an alliance with another country or people to increase their collective security? Oh, and click here on " consultative status with the U.N." to see the list of groups that have consultative status. It's a pretty long list. Are you sure that Baha'is have consultative status is all that special or unusual?

As far as I know, the concept of all nations rising against a recalcitrant member of a world commonwealth only exists in the teachings of Baha’u’llah.

 

[loverofhumanity]

But you also say that there's things wrong with all of us and must purge out the impurities.

And for Baha'is, this is a major impurity that must be purged out of a person.

If not "prejudiced" what is a better word to describe how the Baha'i Faith judges anyone that is homosexual as being abnormal?

Yes, how can they say they accept the people but don't accept how they live and what they do?

The teachings of Baha’u’llah welcome all. We are all imperfect and are all asked to improve our character not just one group of people.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

This is ridiculous. I tried to see what you said here, and I got a messgae that I have you on ignore. I never put you on ignore! The problem is now fixed.. However, I still can't have a private conversation with you or see your profile.

? Maybe a glitch in the system. All seems OK?

Regards Tony

 

[loverofhumanity]

How is what I said wrong?

We believe the the Holy Texts of all the major religions. The spiritual teachings we follow. But not necessarily the social or administrative teachings.

So we believe in love, justice etc and the prophecies.

But laws like eating of pork have changed. We can eat it.And instead of Samgha or Imams Baha’u’llah has brought the House of Justice.

So yes apart from the spiritual virtues we follow a different rule book and different administration.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Then the act should be banned, not the union as marriage between gay people.

If all that's spoken about is the physical act, yet the institution of gay marriage is what's banned, then someone has over-reached when they made the law. It's likely this 'someone' is from the distant past, also likely this 'someone' is prejudiced against homosexuals which was common at the time.

The Baha’i law is confined to a man and woman and was revealed by Baha’u’llah in the 19th century.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Do Baha'is believe in ghosts or demons or even good spirits like angels? If no, why not? Why limit and deny their existence? Same kind of thing.

Only the Holy Spirit which emanates from the Manifestations of God in Their Lives, teachings and Holy Book. It is this Holy Spirit which changes people even thousands of years after the Manifestation has passed away. It’s an invisible spiritual power that like the laws of physics we cannot see, but has a tremendous effect on the minds and hearts of people all over the world.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Cultural appropriation - Wikipedia

Unity in diversity - Wikipedia

 

[We Never Know]

Only the Holy Spirit which emanates from the Manifestations of God in Their Lives, teachings and Holy Book. It is this Holy Spirit which changes people even thousands of years after the Manifestation has passed away. It’s an invisible spiritual power that like the laws of physics we cannot see, but has a tremendous effect on the minds and hearts of people all over the world.

Do Baha'is believe in the devil/satan
Wasn't satan supposedly a fallen angel?

 

[loverofhumanity]

My response was to this...

So, I asked...

Some Baha'is have accused some of us of bullying. That's pretty bad.

But to your post... Yes, the same answers and same questions keep coming up. How do you know the God that Baha'u'llah describes is real? A "maid of heaven" appeared to him? And that's how he knew he was a manifestation? And Baha'is "know" because of his character, his mission and his writings? Yes, we are all looking at those things and evaluating them. And some of us still don't believe, so we keep asking.

The law about homosexuality is very problematic. And the way Baha'is have justified it hasn't helped. But what can a true Baha'is say? To you it is God's law as revealed to an infallible manifestation of God. I think the biggest problem with it, something that has been brought up time and time again, is that Baha'is say that science and religion go hand and hand. That Baha'is concept is meaningless. As I've said before, whatever the Baha'i Faith teaches as true.... is true regardless of what science my say.

The thing is we all have our different beliefs. Our laws are not for non Baha’is, only for those who agree with the laws of Baha’u’llah.

You ask a lot of great questions CG. I don’t like accusations of homophobia because I’ve been a Baha’i for 46 years and that’s not a fair judgement of the Baha’i community. We have our laws which people agree to before they join.

 

[dybmh]

Unity in diversity - Wikipedia

touche

I still think it's rude to take other people's religious symbols and include them on your temples.