Homosexuality and religious.

[Trailblazer]

It is both forbidden and according to my understanding to be issued a fine by future Baha'i House of Justice.

But as I said in the previous post, how would the HOJ know what people were doing behind closed doors? And the Law is the Law so if they were going to fine homosexuals for having sex they would also have to fine anyone who is having sex out of wedlock. I think the HOJ would be collecting a lot of money in fines.

 

[loverofhumanity]

But if god said it was ok, you would consider it ok, yes? You value god's word over man-made laws on moral issues, correct?

But you consider them to be engaged in a shameful sexual aberration that needs to be purged from the world. Correct?

God, I believe is All Knowing so of course I would defer to an infallible source of knowledge over a fallible one.

The real question here is not about homosexuality but is there a God and was Baha’u’llah sent by God? If so, He speaks the truth. I have investigated and found Baha’u’llah is from God so I accept His decrees because His Source, I have determined is infallible while humanity’s source of knowledge is not.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Should gays be scared to try and find a partner because public expression of gay love is forbidden?
Should gays be unable to produce movies of a suitable maturity rating in which gay sexuality is portrayed because that would publicly out them etc?

I do not think it is forbidden in India. Persistence may be unlawful.
Well, adult porn is not forbidden in India.

God, I believe is All Knowing so of course I would defer to an infallible source of knowledge over a fallible one.
The real question here is not about homosexuality but is there a God and was Baha’u’llah sent by God? If so, He speaks the truth. I have investigated and found Baha’u’llah is from God so I accept His decrees because His Source, I have determined is infallible while humanity’s source of knowledge is not.

You have a right to your personal view even if other people reject the evidence that you offer.

 

[Trailblazer]

Why should they have to hide? Should you keep your love for your husband and any evidence thereof (which could potentially involve children etc) a secret behind closed doors?

If I wanted sex with my husband I certainly would not have it in public, I would do it in the bedroom, and I would not even want my children to watch, if I had children.

Should gays be scared to try and find a partner because public expression of gay love is forbidden?

We are not talking about the expression of love, we are talking about having sexual relations in public. I sure don't want to watch anyone having sex in public.

Should gays be unable to produce movies of a suitable maturity rating in which gay sexuality is portrayed because that would publicly out them etc?

No, movies are different than public places. I don't think gay sexuality should be prohibited in movies. You can choose to watch a certain movie or not, but in public you cannot choose to see what you might happen to walk by. I don't even like to see heterosexual couples kissing in public. It is offensive to me. Can't they wait till they get home?

 

[Trailblazer]

Those religious types are welcome to despise themselves for their horrible carnal desires as much as they'd like. I enjoy them. Guess who is happier?

I have no carnal desires. Guess who is happier?

 

[Dawnofhope]

Serious question. Bahaullah was clear according to the passage you posted.

Now you are getting Baha'u'llah and 'Abdu'l-Baha muddled. It was 'Abdu'l-Baha who talked about the ten good qualities, not Baha'u'llah.

Here's some more words from 'Abdu'l-Baha in regards getting the appropriate balance between loving anothers and how there are exceptions;

It is not advisable to show kindness to a person who is a tyrant, a traitor or a thief because kindness encourages him to become worse and does not awaken him. The more kindness you show to a liar the more he is apt to lie, for he thinks that you know not, while you do know, but extreme kindness keeps you from revealing your knowledge.

‘Abdu’l-Bahá, Bahá’í World Faith

What is dangerous is when one deliberately misrepresents the faith of others so as to propagate misunderstandings and hatred.

 

[danieldemol]

But as I said in the previous post, how would the HOJ know what people were doing behind closed doors?

Not all gays can afford to live by themselves, some could be in a position to be dobbed on by their parents.

And the Law is the Law so if they were going to fine homosexuals for having sex they would also have to fine anyone who is having sex out of wedlock. I think the HOJ would be collecting a lot of money in fines.

True, and money is a great motivator sadly.

In my opinion.

 

[ppp]

I have no carnal desires. Guess who is happier?

Who?

 

[ppp]

We are not talking about the expression of love, we are talking about having sexual relations in public. I sure don't want to watch anyone having sex in public.

The Baha'i do prohibit the expressions of love in homosexual relationships. Including, but not limited to sex.

 

[danieldemol]

If I wanted sex with my husband I certainly would not have it in public, I would do it in the bedroom, and I would not even want my children to watch, if I had children.

Sure you wouldn't want them to watch their parents have intercourse (ew lol), but what if you couldn't give your husband a hug, or even call him your husband? If heterosexual relations were banned, even having children would constitute evidence that someone had a sexual relationship.

We are not talking about the expression of love, we are talking about having sexual relations in public. I sure don't want to watch anyone having sex in public.

So according to your interpretation a gay guy could ask another gay guy if they wanted to have sex, just not actually have it? I can see how that could go wrong with a bunch of indoctrinated religious zealots, they are likely to make soliciting a crime.

No, movies are different than public places. I don't think gay sexuality should be prohibited in movies. You can choose to watch a certain movie or not, but in public you cannot choose to see what you might happen to walk by. I don't even like to see heterosexual couples kissing in public. It is offensive to me. Can't they wait till they get home?

I would like to see an unambiguous declaration from the Universal House of Justice that the production of movies showing sexually explicit content would not be banned and or fined under such a law.

And would you seriously want people fined for having a kiss in public? Talk about enforcing your own tastes on others.

In my opinion.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

So is mine. I was a sex worker our of necessity, I was young and did all that stuff -- and I have been with my lover faithfully and happyily for over 30 years. You'd be surprised how things can work out.

Sex is natural. If only we didn't get so flipping fussed about it all. It shouldn't be scary. It can also be useful and fun. And for people who are infected with religion, it can be filthy and sinful.

I'm sure you can figure out which side of all that I come down on. Those religious types are welcome to despise themselves for their horrible carnal desires as much as they'd like. I enjoy them. Guess who is happier?

Sex isn't scary, shameful or sinful in of itself. It's the circumstances that make it that way. I'm not a virgin. I've been with men and women. But there is a better way to go about it, and it's usually not just using people to get off. I've known people who prostituted, too. They ended up with HIV. One of them still acts like a hooker and doesn't tend to tell his partners, so he'll probably be assaulted or murdered over it eventually. He's already been raped and assaulted multiple times due to his whoring. Another friend who whored/slept around developed a meth addiction to go along with it and ended up destitute, homeless and died this January. This really has nothing to do with religion. Do it enough and it will cause the same emptiness, regardless of your religious beliefs.

 

[loverofhumanity]

The Baha'i do prohibit the expressions of love in homosexual relationships. Including, but not limited to sex.

Yes that’s true. But not just homosexuality. Any form of sexual conduct outside of marriage between a man and a woman is considered immoral. So the law applies equally to all except that marriage can only be between the opposite sexes.

But we are forbidden to discriminate against anyone n9 matter their lifestyle. All are human. All are entitled to be treated with dignity.

 

[CG Didymus]

A: Do you condemn racist violence?
B: I maintain a neutral position on the issue.

You really think that is an acceptable response?
*smh*

Does the Baha'i Faith support people that live openly gay lifestyles? I don't think so. Is the Baha'i Faith promoting homophobic attitudes? No, unless you think saying it is unnatural and people with homosexual feelings should seek help to correct their condition?

In a letter dated March 26,1950, written on his behalf, Shoghi Effendi, the authorized interpreter of the Bahá'í Teachings, further explicates the Bahá'í attitude toward homosexuality. It should be noted that the Guardian's interpretation of this subject is based on his infallible understanding of the Texts. It represents both a statement of moral principle and unerring guidance to Bahá'ís who are homosexuals. The letter states: "No matter how devoted and fine the love may be between people of the same sex, to let it find expression in sexual acts is wrong. To say that it is ideal is no excuse. Immorality of every sort is really forbidden by Bahá'u'lláh, and homosexual relationships He looks upon as such, besides being against nature.

"To be afflicted this way is a great burden to a conscientious soul. But through the advice and help doctors, through a strong and determined effort, and through prayer, a soul can overcome this handicap."
​

Is there any religion, though, that says God is okay with homosexuality? Wait a minute, there's 19 pages about this already? Never mind. I'm sure somebody has already brought this up.

 

[ppp]

Yes that’s true. But not just homosexuality. Any form of sexual conduct outside of marriage between a man and a woman is considered immoral.

I said expression of affection not limited to sex are prohibited. You do realize the two people in love express affection in all sorts of ways that are not sexual, right? Including marriage. Why focus on the sex?

So the law applies equally to all except that marriage can only be between the opposite sexes.

I have heard this before. The law applies to all except that the marriage can only be between people of the allowed race, sex, gender, religion, caste, chin shape, etc. What you have is a law that is intentionally crafted to exclude a group of people from enjoying the solace of marriage. You are adopting the position of Virginia in Loving vs Virginia.

But we are forbidden to discriminate against anyone n9 matter their lifestyle.

Well, you adopt the language of equality, but when it comes to your words, and the impact of your laws what you practice is indeed discrimination.

 

[We Never Know]

Yesterday (for me) i was answering about a question relating to baha'i scripture and homosexuality. And i replied something like "I can not tell other what they can and can not do in their belief/faith."

The person who made the question then directly assumed i had to be a homophobic, hateful person against every LGBTQ person.

I just wonder, how is it possible to conclude that a person is homophobic or hateful from a reply like the one i gave?

Just to clerify my true stand on it, i am neutral to what other people do in their relationship sexually, i is not any of my business to critique them.

Well..... Men of religions molest boys. Male on male, isn't that what homosexuality is?

What does that say?

 

[Trailblazer]

Who?

Depends upon who is answering....
I believe I am happier but @Evangelicalhumanist probably believes that he is happier....
Only God knows who is really happier.

 

[We Never Know]

Depends upon who is answering....
I believe I am happier but @Evangelicalhumanist probably believes that he is happier....
Only God knows who is really happier.

What is happiness?

 

[Trailblazer]

The Baha'i do prohibit the expressions of love in homosexual relationships. Including, but not limited to sex.

No, the Baha'i Faith does not prohibit 'any' expressions of love in homosexual relationships, only sexual expressions.

 

[Trailblazer]

What is happiness?

That depends upon if you are talking about physical happiness or spiritual happiness.
Physical happiness is only temporary, spiritual happiness is eternal.
I think you can do the math.

 

[We Never Know]

That depends upon if you are talking about physical happiness or spiritual happiness.
Physical happiness is only temporary, spiritual happiness is eternal.
I think you can do the math.

Spiritual happiness is when you are dead and your soul is in heaven right?
So what is happiness while you are living?